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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2009 : 17:27:03
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| Where are you seeing the postings for 2010? |
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HAWKS8
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 10:49:49
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| I agree with BMOser, I called and actually asked to be moved up to AAA. I stay clear of the major for the very reason he described...few tournaments. They granted my request, which we are glad of. |
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 12:12:08
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| Hypothetically speaking................if a team starts the season at AAA or AA and wins one of the WSQ. Then is moved up to the next level. What happens to that WS berth? Does the team lose the berth or do they still participate in the level that they qualified? This is USSSA "hypothetically" speaking. Although I may assume all organizations would do it the same way? Hypothetically speaking of course. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
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dirtdawgs
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 19:55:47
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| Oh boy looks like we just got bumped to that magic major ranking. Only got 4 returning players and no other major teams within 4 hours of us. Should make for an interesting 2010. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 21:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtdawgs
Oh boy looks like we just got bumped to that magic major ranking. Only got 4 returning players and no other major teams within 4 hours of us. Should make for an interesting 2010.
Can you say "APPEAL" ?? |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 22:47:34
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I'm near West Covina (SoCal) for the USSSA Xmas Classic. Hope this thing makes, it was a long way to travel to watch 11U baseball. They mix beer and Bloody Mary mix together out here and call it a Bloody Beer. Looked like a bloody stomach ache to me.
Sure has been quiet since the re-class report came out. I guess the new class was the A group. Now I know that USSSA does push teams down in class. I'll bet some teams are madder than a Rattlesnake.
AAA is going to be a rumble. Much tougher than I thought it would be. I see the Open class tourney's becoming more popular.
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 01:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtdawgs
Oh boy looks like we just got bumped to that magic major ranking. Only got 4 returning players and no other major teams within 4 hours of us. Should make for an interesting 2010.
I think you should be able to request to be moved down under those circumstances and you should do so ASAP. Being ranked major with no one around you that is major makes it nearly impossible to find a tournament. |
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stinger
120 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 08:49:58
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Most of this looks dead-on and bmoser gets a gold star for most of his predictions, but there are also some oddities. Some observations at first glance:
- Wills Park YJ (GA Jackets Gold) shows up in AA, yet they went 8-4 playing almost exclusively against Major teams (as a AAA team) and they beat all 5 ECB teams + Holly Springs. Interestingly, the N GA Storm (GA Jackets White) is a Major team.
- N GA Cougars played one Major game (won), one AAA game (lost), and went 3-1 vs AA teams, yet they are Major
- PT All Stars (who is this team?) went 1-1 in Major and are still Major. Yet Alpharetta A's went 1-2 and got moved from Major to AA.
- Sandy Plains went 3-0 vs Major teams, 0-1 vs AAA (LSU), 0-1 vs AA (Duluth) and got moved to AA. Both SP and WP lost to Duluth in the Slugfest last season and now are AA. Duluth also beat Midway in this tournament and Midway is Major.
- There are currently 0 Major teams from ECB. The only ECB team that made Major is currently not an ECB team (Colt 45s). Bulldogs (Titans), Longhorns (Stars), and Tigers (Astros) are all AAA teams. However if you look at their records against Major teams, this makes sense. ECB Luck (only ECB team not to change names) is a AA team.
chain - I feel for you but your only way out is to play 6 games in Major tournaments and then appeal. Do they offer these within driving distance for your team?
bmoser - can you shed some light on the oddities mentioned above. I believe you are working on your doctoral thesis in USSSA Baseball rules & rankanomics.
Overall this will make for a much less exciting Forsyth Slugfest with the small number of Major teams. Does anyone know if they will let teams play up in this tournament?
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 09:10:04
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stinger,
USSSA uses their power rankings to do the re-classifications. These rankings only uses same-class results in their calculation, and disregards out-of-class results. AA vs AA, AAA vs AAA, Major vs Major matter, the rest don't. It also disregards head-to-head w/in the same class. So a AA team can beat a AA rival 3 out of 3 times and still be ranked below them based upon the rest of the AA games each had played.
Not saying I agree, just explaining it.
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Edited by - bmoser on 12/17/2009 09:11:55 |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 09:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
I'm near West Covina (SoCal) for the USSSA Xmas Classic. Hope this thing makes, it was a long way to travel to watch 11U baseball. They mix beer and Bloody Mary mix together out here and call it a Bloody Beer. Looked like a bloody stomach ache to me.
Sure has been quiet since the re-class report came out. I guess the new class was the A group. Now I know that USSSA does push teams down in class. I'll bet some teams are madder than a Rattlesnake.
AAA is going to be a rumble. Much tougher than I thought it would be. I see the Open class tourney's becoming more popular.
At this point, I will NEVER doubt the dedication of Bmoser regarding 11u baseball !! |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 09:16:07
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| IMHO, These Rankings are Hog Wash to put it mildly. Several good teams are limited to AA and AAA I guess because they did not play enough USSSA events to be ranked correctly ? IMHO you have blown it again USSSA. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 10:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
IMHO, These Rankings are Hog Wash to put it mildly. Several good teams are limited to AA and AAA I guess because they did not play enough USSSA events to be ranked correctly ? IMHO you have blown it again USSSA.
They are not limited to their class. They can chose to play up at any time. They can also request to be moved permanently to a higher class. It is better to be ranked lower than your playing ability than higher. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 10:19:08
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USSSA re-classifications are due out soon. These changes will impact the Forsyth Slugfest which will not be an "Open" class event in '10.
Is this not the case?If Im wrong on this , Great! no problems. But if these classifications prohibit you from playing in any events and they are not correct, could that hurt you throughout the year?quote:
Originally posted by Bandit13
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
IMHO, These Rankings are Hog Wash to put it mildly. Several good teams are limited to AA and AAA I guess because they did not play enough USSSA events to be ranked correctly ? IMHO you have blown it again USSSA.
They are not limited to their class. They can chose to play up at any time. They can also request to be moved permanently to a higher class. It is better to be ranked lower than your playing ability than higher.
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 10:46:47
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| From what I have seen at first glance, it appears that the only teams who have been "helped" in this process are the new A teams. One of my sons spent a couple of years on a very weak AA team (I know, most of you on this board don't know what that's like), and having an A grouping would have been helpful. Otherwise, the only thing I see is that the cream has risen to the top and we'll have to see a lot more Major and Open tournaments so the AAA teams can play the Major teams, which is generally what they want. |
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 11:14:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Whitlow
quote:
Originally posted by dirtdawgs
Oh boy looks like we just got bumped to that magic major ranking. Only got 4 returning players and no other major teams within 4 hours of us. Should make for an interesting 2010.
I think you should be able to request to be moved down under those circumstances and you should do so ASAP. Being ranked major with no one around you that is major makes it nearly impossible to find a tournament.
bmoser can't dirtdawgs re-register his team since he has only 4 returning players?
If not I hope they have a lot of open tournaments near him otherwise I guess dirtdawgs maybe playing something else besides USSSA. That would be sad to see when you look at how many USSSA tournaments these guys have played. |
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CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 11:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
stinger,
USSSA uses their power rankings to do the re-classifications. These rankings only uses same-class results in their calculation, and disregards out-of-class results. AA vs AA, AAA vs AAA, Major vs Major matter, the rest don't. It also disregards head-to-head w/in the same class. So a AA team can beat a AA rival 3 out of 3 times and still be ranked below them based upon the rest of the AA games each had played.
Not saying I agree, just explaining it.
Our team (SP Wildcats) played in one AAA tournament (Super NIT) and we went 1-1 before the rest was rained out. Post tournament, one of the teams we beat was re-ranked UP to Major so our "same class" results changed to 0-1. Because of this, we are now AA. You would think this would have an opposite affect on Power rankings but it was negative in our case.
The only other USSSA tourney we played was the Open Forsyth Slugfest where we beat two Major teams and then lost to Duluth on their hot streak in the first round of brackets. So our official USSSA record stands at 3-0 v Major, 0-1 v AAA and 0-1 v AA.
As long as USSSA has method of correcting issues such as this, it really doesn't matter. No computer system is ever going to be perfect and this re-class report is exactly that. I sent a note to Matt this morning. I'm sure this will get fixed but it's much easier to go up than it is to go down. |
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11baseball11
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 12:32:47
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| All this worry about rank is crazy. If you are ranked too HIGH it could suck because you can't play down but I don't see that happening.If you think you are too low then play up and win. These classifications aren't ment to be an ego boost.The lower the class the more tournaments you qualify for. So no more crying unless you are classified too high. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 14:57:11
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BBall123:
You are right, the system only works well for teams who play more USSSA tourneys. And even then, they have to play teams in their class. If they play Open tourneys and don't get many games vs their own class, the power rankings wont reflect their efforts. Take a look at Mill Creek Red 10u results. They were AA, and played only 2 AA opponents, and went 6-2 vs AAA and Major opponents. They got bumped up due to their 2-0 record vs AA opponents, the 6-2 vs AAA and majors had nothing to do with it. If they went 0-2 vs AA's, they might even be placed in A for 2010.
The more USSSA games you play vs. teams your own ranking, the more accurate the rankings get. I'd say after 3 tourneys, or 9-15 games vs teams in your own class, its pretty darn good.
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
IMHO, These Rankings are Hog Wash to put it mildly. Several good teams are limited to AA and AAA I guess because they did not play enough USSSA events to be ranked correctly ? IMHO you have blown it again USSSA.
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Edited by - bmoser on 12/17/2009 15:02:59 |
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CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 15:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by 11baseball11
All this worry about rank is crazy. If you are ranked too HIGH it could suck because you can't play down but I don't see that happening.If you think you are too low then play up and win. These classifications aren't ment to be an ego boost.The lower the class the more tournaments you qualify for. So no more crying unless you are classified too high.
11baseball - I don't believe you are completely correct on this.
1. Last year, there were some tournaments (USSSA State for example) that did not allow you to play outside of your class. At least this is what was posted all over the tournament qualifications. I know my team did not play in the USSSA Major State for this reason. We would have liked to had the opportunity to see how we would do against some of the teams in this event. If this is the case and the current rankings don't change, then the Major State tournament is a small field. And how fair would it be to the AA teams to have to play against GA Jackets Gold in a State Championship?
2. For the Slugfest (multi-class event), if my team signs up, will they let me play up or will I have to play within my class? Can anyone answer this question?
3. If bmoser is correct and only games within your class count, then if you are ranked too low and always play up, by definition you cannot move up. Then see impact of point #1 & #2 above.
Again, I'm sure that USSSA will have an avenue to challenge your class and allow you to re-class higher if appropriate. Let's give them some time to get this worked out before too much hay is made over this. It does make for some good fodder though. February can't get here fast enough. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 15:44:06
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CoachMark:
There is an appeal process, but you must play in 6 usssa tourney games vs teams in your class first before appealing. The rule is on the Georgia USSSA web site, just click on reclassification tab.
Whitlow:
I think you are correct that if Dirt Dawg has only 4 returning players he can register as a new team and enter whatever class he so desires. I thought that number used to be 4, but I may be wrong or they may have upped it to six. This too can be found on the Georgia USSSA web site under reclassification tab.
I suggest attending one of the rules meetings and submitting questions in advance. I will be. |
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 16:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by CoachMark
quote:
Originally posted by 11baseball11
All this worry about rank is crazy. If you are ranked too HIGH it could suck because you can't play down but I don't see that happening.If you think you are too low then play up and win. These classifications aren't ment to be an ego boost.The lower the class the more tournaments you qualify for. So no more crying unless you are classified too high.
11baseball - I don't believe you are completely correct on this.
1. Last year, there were some tournaments (USSSA State for example) that did not allow you to play outside of your class. At least this is what was posted all over the tournament qualifications. I know my team did not play in the USSSA Major State for this reason. We would have liked to had the opportunity to see how we would do against some of the teams in this event. If this is the case and the current rankings don't change, then the Major State tournament is a small field. And how fair would it be to the AA teams to have to play against GA Jackets Gold in a State Championship?
2. For the Slugfest (multi-class event), if my team signs up, will they let me play up or will I have to play within my class? Can anyone answer this question?
3. If bmoser is correct and only games within your class count, then if you are ranked too low and always play up, by definition you cannot move up. Then see impact of point #1 & #2 above.
Again, I'm sure that USSSA will have an avenue to challenge your class and allow you to re-class higher if appropriate. Let's give them some time to get this worked out before too much hay is made over this. It does make for some good fodder though. February can't get here fast enough.
Your point #1 and #2 is a concern for Collins Hill as well since we were dropped to AA after playing only 4 USSSA tournaments since fall 2008. I don't think it is bad to be ranked AA as long as #1 and #2 don't occur because we will want to play AAA in tournaments. |
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11baseball11
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 17:03:08
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Coach Mark, It states ,To move up in class all you have to do is e-mail the state office and request a variance. I don't believe you have to play 6 games to move up,only to move down. Mr. Smith , maybe you can clear this up if I'm wrong.
Looks like the Jackets need to get moved up, I know they're not AA. Either way it will all work out by the end of March or so. |
Edited by - 11baseball11 on 12/17/2009 21:33:56 |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 17:20:21
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No one crying that I can see? I think the concerns are valid? "will it affect my ability to play in any tourney?" If so then thats a problem. quote:
Originally posted by 11baseball11
All this worry about rank is crazy. If you are ranked too HIGH it could suck because you can't play down but I don't see that happening.If you think you are too low then play up and win. These classifications aren't ment to be an ego boost.The lower the class the more tournaments you qualify for. So no more crying unless you are classified too high.
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 17:29:14
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What's up guys...thought i would way in on the reclass. conversation. Someone said it will take some time to sort it out and it will. It is computer numbers and will have to have the human touch put on it. Is it perfect? No, Will it keep teams from sandbagging? No but it will be harder to do now. Yes, it is easier to get a gage on teams that play more USSSA ball (that's a no-brainer) but we still have to consider all teams that are registered.
Look, we know this report is not perfect and yes we have some teams out of place. Some will be corrected now and some will work it's self out come Feb/March.
You guys wouldn't believe the number of teams that got moved down in class and took it as an insult and wanted to be put back. Those request are always easy. We are handleing each appeal on a one on one bases and looking at every situation very close. We want all teams to be in the class they "need" to be in not the class they "want" to be in. This is where the sandbagging comes in and fella's, sandbagging is not good for the program. This system will work, just give it a chance..... |
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