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Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 04/08/2017 : 12:39:22
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quote:
Originally posted by brball
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Update!!!!
http://www.demarini.com/en-us/cbz17-update#faq-panel
I knew the drop 8 compression numbers were too low after testing a few last week.
Who is ready to swing wood????????
What is your fascination with wood? If it's a safety thing for the younger ages I get it, but at the older ages, kids are swinging the wood just as hard as the drop 10's. You do know this is 2017, not 1917? Let the 12U and under kids swing the hot bat, if there is one left! Ha
What I've never understood is why do travel tourneys at the high school ages make you swing the wood? I'm mean, high school & college doesn't swing wood, correct? Why swing wood when 90% or so won't even see college ball?
Let the kids hit the hot bat as long as possible, if it's legal... And this is coming from a PO dad!!!
Good luck and health to all this season,
None. The game has been played with wood way before these "helper bats" were seen. There is no difference between a "hot bat" and "steroids" to me.
This "hot bat" mentality must be a parent gratification thing? Tainting the game.
You do not have a problem spending $300 for a Wilson A2000 glove like the pros use, but low and behold should my kid swing a wood bat like them.
Why are you guys so afraid of wood when a composite or aluminum bat costs more to produce? Hence the $400 plus price tag. There is no maple shortage not from what I've seen from a trip to Canada last month.
I'm guessing that more kids would phase out of the game when they have to play it the right way with the right equipment. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/08/2017 13:34:08 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2017 : 18:09:09
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| Word on the street is next year's bat standards are moving to deadening all the bats to make them "wood-like" ..wouldn't it make more sense just to hit with wood?? Just like pitch-smart, levels the playing field and makes the game more old school and closer to reality. Pros don't hit with anything but wood (just like a young Babe Ruth, in the day) and if a 35 year old pro doesn't throw 130 pitches, neither should an 11 year old. Just IMHO of course! |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 00:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Word on the street is next year's bat standards are moving to deadening all the bats to make them "wood-like" ..wouldn't it make more sense just to hit with wood?? Just like pitch-smart, levels the playing field and makes the game more old school and closer to reality. Pros don't hit with anything but wood (just like a young Babe Ruth, in the day) and if a 35 year old pro doesn't throw 130 pitches, neither should an 11 year old. Just IMHO of course!
It makes too much sense. Why pay $400 for a bat that has wood or less than wood like performance when you can just use wood for cheaper. I'm all for using the best tool for the job, but when the best tool doesn't line up with the rules why waste the coin.
Leave the composites and aluminum to softball. That's what they were originally made for anyway. There is no place for them in baseball. There is always a wood bat size a kid can swing without sacrificing mechanics, if not, choke up. So that 29" or 30" composite turns into a 26" or 27" in wood. Haven't seen any 2 3/4" or 2 5/8" wood bats for youth yet.
I guess everyone will be looking for the next "hot wood" bat next season!!! LOL.
Need to dust off the lathe soon.
Wait. 130 pitches at 11yr old? Beyond stupid. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/10/2017 09:16:19 |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 11:21:55
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Just let say before I reply that I am OK with wood bats and would not take issue with metal bats being banned. With that being said the idea that wood bats would be the cheaper.... I don't think that is the case. You quote the most expense price for metal/composite bats as if that is the only option and it is not. Metal bats are available starting around $150. In addition if you price the highest end wood bats like a Tucci THEN THOSE ARE $149.00 and you are going to need 2 incase 1 gets broken and how many would a kid break in a 60 plus game season.
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Word on the street is next year's bat standards are moving to deadening all the bats to make them "wood-like" ..wouldn't it make more sense just to hit with wood?? Just like pitch-smart, levels the playing field and makes the game more old school and closer to reality. Pros don't hit with anything but wood (just like a young Babe Ruth, in the day) and if a 35 year old pro doesn't throw 130 pitches, neither should an 11 year old. Just IMHO of course!
It makes too much sense. Why pay $400 for a bat that has wood or less than wood like performance when you can just use wood for cheaper. I'm all for using the best tool for the job, but when the best tool doesn't line up with the rules why waste the coin.
Leave the composites and aluminum to softball. That's what they were originally made for anyway. There is no place for them in baseball. There is always a wood bat size a kid can swing without sacrificing mechanics, if not, choke up. So that 29" or 30" composite turns into a 26" or 27" in wood. Haven't seen any 2 3/4" or 2 5/8" wood bats for youth yet.
I guess everyone will be looking for the next "hot wood" bat next season!!! LOL.
Need to dust off the lathe soon.
Wait. 130 pitches at 11yr old? Beyond stupid.
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 12:25:40
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That's a good point if some choose to shell out that much for a wood bat. I just bought 2 LS M9 Hard Maple bats on Amazon for $59. Wood doesn't differ that much unless it's Balsa, Brazilian Maple, German (Black Forrest) Maple, or some other exotic where the costs would be in that $150 range. Other than just you are just paying for a name brand.
Ash has always been my favorite to use. Has a bit more flex than harder woods.
Even if you paid $150. That's 2 bats for $300 and you are still under the $350 price tag of a single Zen.
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Just let say before I reply that I am OK with wood bats and would not take issue with metal bats being banned. With that being said the idea that wood bats would be the cheaper.... I don't think that is the case. You quote the most expense price for metal/composite bats as if that is the only option and it is not. Metal bats are available starting around $150. In addition if you price the highest end wood bats like a Tucci THEN THOSE ARE $149.00 and you are going to need 2 incase 1 gets broken and how many would a kid break in a 60 plus game season.
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Word on the street is next year's bat standards are moving to deadening all the bats to make them "wood-like" ..wouldn't it make more sense just to hit with wood?? Just like pitch-smart, levels the playing field and makes the game more old school and closer to reality. Pros don't hit with anything but wood (just like a young Babe Ruth, in the day) and if a 35 year old pro doesn't throw 130 pitches, neither should an 11 year old. Just IMHO of course!
It makes too much sense. Why pay $400 for a bat that has wood or less than wood like performance when you can just use wood for cheaper. I'm all for using the best tool for the job, but when the best tool doesn't line up with the rules why waste the coin.
Leave the composites and aluminum to softball. That's what they were originally made for anyway. There is no place for them in baseball. There is always a wood bat size a kid can swing without sacrificing mechanics, if not, choke up. So that 29" or 30" composite turns into a 26" or 27" in wood. Haven't seen any 2 3/4" or 2 5/8" wood bats for youth yet.
I guess everyone will be looking for the next "hot wood" bat next season!!! LOL.
Need to dust off the lathe soon.
Wait. 130 pitches at 11yr old? Beyond stupid.
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Edited by - Punishers on 04/10/2017 14:15:53 |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 14:41:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Even if you paid $150. That's 2 bats for $300 and you are still under the $350 price tag of a single Zen.
$350 for a Zen... PLUS a warranty replacement.
The thought is, you're going to go through more $40-$60 wood bats than you will $150-$300 metal/composite bats in a season (CF8's aside). |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 14:52:32
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FYI Wood is not allowed everywhere for ALL ages. Per PG website:
BCS/Youth Bat Restrictions
BCS - Metal Bat Tournaments
14U-18U: Metal bat. All teams must use BBCOR -3 bats that are legal according to the National High School Federation.Wood bats are also allowed.
13U: Metal bat. All bats must have a branding, label, or stamp proving BPF 1.15 or BBCOR on it. There is length to weight ratio maximum of -5 (5 ounces). NO WOOD BATS
9U-12U: Metal bat. All bats must have a branding, label, or stamp proving BPF 1.15. NO WOOD BATS |
Edited by - CaCO3Girl on 04/10/2017 14:53:58 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 22:31:57
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
FYI Wood is not allowed everywhere for ALL ages. Per PG website:
BCS/Youth Bat Restrictions
BCS - Metal Bat Tournaments
14U-18U: Metal bat. All teams must use BBCOR -3 bats that are legal according to the National High School Federation.Wood bats are also allowed.
13U: Metal bat. All bats must have a branding, label, or stamp proving BPF 1.15 or BBCOR on it. There is length to weight ratio maximum of -5 (5 ounces). NO WOOD BATS
9U-12U: Metal bat. All bats must have a branding, label, or stamp proving BPF 1.15. NO WOOD BATS
I have a feeling that will be changing. I know TC allows wood bats. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 22:47:47
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Even if you paid $150. That's 2 bats for $300 and you are still under the $350 price tag of a single Zen.
$350 for a Zen... PLUS a warranty replacement.
The thought is, you're going to go through more $40-$60 wood bats than you will $150-$300 metal/composite bats in a season (CF8's aside).
Logical from the outside looking in. But when you know that a composite bat is carbon fiber and is not impact resistant like aramid (kevlar) it is destined to fail. It's not like they use the highest quality of carbon fiber available. Usually it's cheap unidirectional pre-preg with the pretty weave outer layer. From experience I'd say that most manufacturers cost are not more than $100 for composite bats and about $50 for aluminum bats to make. Even with a warranty for a 1 time replacement they are still in the green and you (the consumer) are in the red.
My old ash bat took close to 2000 hits before it failed. Try that with a composite. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/10/2017 23:05:48 |
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 10:06:40
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Demarini just emailed me the return shipping labels for our warranty-return and we shipped them back yesterday. Still no word from Demarini on what we're waiting for; ie the new USAbats.
I see they are now "re-working" the CFZen and you have the option to get this done, or accept the credit.
Has anyone tried a re-worked bat yet? What do they do during the re-working process and how does this effect play of the bat? |
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coolbeans
8 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 11:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Demarini just emailed me the return shipping labels for our warranty-return and we shipped them back yesterday. Still no word from Demarini on what we're waiting for; ie the new USAbats.
I see they are now "re-working" the CFZen and you have the option to get this done, or accept the credit.
Has anyone tried a re-worked bat yet? What do they do during the re-working process and how does this effect play of the bat?
I haven't seen anyone report they have used a retooled zen in action but some yahoo put one on ebay and wants $2,500 to buy it now. Conventional wisdoms says they will take your bat, remove the endcap, insert a sleeve inside the barrel that will increase the bat's compression numbers thus reducing it's tremendous trampoline effect, put a new orange endcap on the bat, and paint some orange identifiers on the bat. Who knows what kind of bat you will get back so most are taking the voucher and waiting on the next model. Some are buying the 2 5/8 model but most reports say it isn't very special. I got my voucher two days ago and am waiting for the next model. If they aren't any good, I'll buy a Wilson A2K for my son to have when his current on wears out. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 16:37:31
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quote:
Originally posted by coolbeans
Some are buying the 2 5/8 model but most reports say it isn't very special.
You must not watch much 11 or 12U baseball if you truly believe the comment I pulled from your quote... |
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coolbeans
8 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 21:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by coolbeans
Some are buying the 2 5/8 model but most reports say it isn't very special.
You must not watch much 11 or 12U baseball if you truly believe the comment I pulled from your quote...
I was referring to the the -10 which is a the bat many are turning to. I know the -8 and the -5 are very good but everything I heard about the -10 was not very good. We also just played in a tournament with teams from up and down the east coast and I didn't see a single -10 2 5/8 zen used at the 10U level. The 12Us and up were using the -5s like crazy. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2017 : 22:57:41
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| Stand by on the zen ....was not illegal at PG, only at USSSA and TC. |
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ultimatesports10
135 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2017 : 07:48:21
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| Saw quite a few ZEN -10's in Perfect Game this weekend. Coach asked umpire and they went to the PG onsite and the comment was this is the last weekend they will be able to be used..... |
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ncbulldog5
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2017 : 14:55:46
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| My son is 12u and has played for 5 years now. Never broke a single aluminum or composite bat. Yet in 2 wood bat tourneys in Oct and Nov he broke 3 bats just himself. Cant see at that rate where a $40-$50 bat will outlast a $350 bat with a full warranty replacement |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2017 : 15:25:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ncbulldog5
My son is 12u and has played for 5 years now. Never broke a single aluminum or composite bat. Yet in 2 wood bat tourneys in Oct and Nov he broke 3 bats just himself. Cant see at that rate where a $40-$50 bat will outlast a $350 bat with a full warranty replacement
It's all in the swing and angle of the hit. Wood will force you to swing correctly or the ball doesn't go anywhere AND/OR you break your bat. Three bats in one tourney is operator error, not the bat.
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2017 : 21:34:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by ncbulldog5
My son is 12u and has played for 5 years now. Never broke a single aluminum or composite bat. Yet in 2 wood bat tourneys in Oct and Nov he broke 3 bats just himself. Cant see at that rate where a $40-$50 bat will outlast a $350 bat with a full warranty replacement
It's all in the swing and angle of the hit. Wood will force you to swing correctly or the ball doesn't go anywhere AND/OR you break your bat. Three bats in one tourney is operator error, not the bat.
Have to agree. Seems like a lot of close to handle hits. Not hitting with the sweet spot. Tells me that all the composite and aluminum bats did was help his hitting and the wood bats told the truth about his swing. Wood is unforgiving, doesn't lie, or give false impressions. Maybe he should back-off the plate about 3 inches. Hard to gauge without seeing his swing. Wood bats do not have that extended 10" barrel like aluminum or composite bats There is only about 4" of barrel sweet spot for most wood bats over 30" in length. Most hits not in that area will most likely break it since the hit is on the thinner part. |
Edited by - Punishers on 04/24/2017 22:51:56 |
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2017 : 12:57:35
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UPDATE: due to the volume of warranty calls Demarini has now outsourced their customer service and claim processing. Again we have two claims filed (one custom, and one standard -10 Zen). They of course screwed up the credit voucher and only gave us the standard $350 credit after Mark from Demarini assured us they would keep us whole for the full purchase price. Just called. Answering service transfer us to Demarini management immediately after I explained what was going on. Problem fixed in 5 mins after waiting 30 mins on hold to get thru. Reconfirmed we'll be getting full purchase price credit.
In addition, since we submitted our claims, Demarini also came up with a new option to receive a 're-worked' bat that is legal for play. Had questions about this. Apparently they are removing the end cap and installing a 'sleeve' in the barrel. How can this not add weight?; so where we ordered a -10 would we not get a -8 in exchange? Demarini reassured the drop weight will not change because they are using a 'new' lighter weight end cap. Still I cannot see this being the same bat. Minimally swing weight must change with the added weight from the sleeve. will the reworked bats still be 'balanced'???....So Demarini agreed to give us one for free to let us try it out and if we like it. if we do, we can keep it for one of the claims filed.
Will let you know when we get the reworked bats and share pics and experience. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2017 : 14:03:52
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| Wonder which will be better as far as getting close to what we lost..the re-worked model or next years zen when it comes out? |
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ryansville34
141 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2017 : 15:32:58
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| If all they are doing is removing the end cap and adding a "sleeve", wouldnt the bat still be the SAME BAT that is on the banned list? How will people tell the difference between an illegal bat and one that has had the sleeve added? Sounds like a big disaster waiting to happen if they go this route. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2017 : 22:54:46
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| Not a sleeve, but a disc to keep the trampoline of the barrel stiffer. Combat and Easton do the same. I just opened a retooled one up just to inspect what was done. Still think the damage has been done to this model from a marketing standpoint. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2017 : 09:54:41
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| I think they said the end cap would be a different color on the.re-tooled.bat and there would be visible signage on the bat that it is now legal. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 20:01:17
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| Popped opened another one today. This one has a sleeve in it. Both have orange cap and R for retool on it. Guess the disc breaks and the sleeve holds up better. |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2017 : 16:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Popped opened another one today. This one has a sleeve in it. Both have orange cap and R for retool on it. Guess the disc breaks and the sleeve holds up better.
What is stopping someone from taking a retooled zen, popping off the endcap and removing the sleeve or disc to go right back to the original zen?? Seems like an opportunity for someone to cheat the system. |
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Topic |
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Demarini CF Zen banned by USSSA
