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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2017 : 13:00:44
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Keeping our Zen until it ban Official on the 31st. I'd hate to get rid of it and have it overturned and put back to a legal bat and not be able to get another one.
I agree, I think this is a forced attrition deal vs USSSA lead cause, something really stinks here. If DeMarini submitted the wrong bat for testing, now someone is negligent, either DeMarini or the certification agency or both, their best bet is to make their customers happy on this one.
DeMarini has a PR problem on their hands, they should offer Retail price cash refund, or voucher for a little extra on a Wilson family product in my opinion, it's called goodwill. I may want to replace it with a Mako Beast since there are no Zen 2 5/8's available on the market currently, not a voodoo fan and we are definitely not LS fans. So a voucher is better than nothing, but not what we would want either. If DeMarini made 2 5/8 zen to zen swap available that would be fine too, but other than the zen we really are not interested in their other products.
Some smart lawyer will get on this and file a class action suit, they always do. Wilson will settle the case out of court with a non admission of guilt. Just like Disney and the aligators..
Right now at 11U we are in a wait and see mode. If Cooperstown doesn't have any bat rules, well I guess we may save it for then. Just have to be patient and in a wait and see mode.
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Question to the group: what response from Demarini would make you happy?
Here's what I propose:
1) Demarini petition USSSA for a tempory waiver thru the 2017 season for the -10 Zen
2) -10 Zen is immediately discontinued a not offered for sale
3) End all warranty claims on the -10 Zen.
4) At the end of 2017 season, any original owner of the -10 Zen (with proof of purchase) can turn his bat in for new USABat compliant model, with a free upgrade to custom graphics.
Anything less than above and I'm thinking Class Action is ahead for them.
While, emotionally, I'd have a tendency to agree with you, in terms of 'class action' or doing more, Demarini has gone above/beyond in indemnifying consumers. $350 credit/voucher, period. No questions. Original owner or not. Bought retail or not. Warranty replacement or not. BUSTED/CRACKED or not. $350 is what you get, if you return one. That's called "indemnifying" you. You've been reimbursed. NOW, my one issue is, you must replace with a Wilson/DeMarini product (inc. Louisville Slugger). Maybe I ONLY wanted the Zen, due to performance, and would have otherwise sought a different manufacturer. That stinks, but again, you've gotten your money back (only to spend at THEIR place).
Class action? Nah, doubt it. That's an emotional response.
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Around_the_Horn
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2017 : 14:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Question to the group: what response from Demarini would make you happy?
Here's what I propose:
1) Demarini petition USSSA for a tempory waiver thru the 2017 season for the -10 Zen
2) -10 Zen is immediately discontinued a not offered for sale
3) End all warranty claims on the -10 Zen.
4) At the end of 2017 season, any original owner of the -10 Zen (with proof of purchase) can turn his bat in for new USABat compliant model, with a free upgrade to custom graphics.
Anything less than above and I'm thinking Class Action is ahead for them.
At the end of the day, bottom line, they sold us a non-compliant BPF certified product which has put our kids at risk.
Your last statement nullifies your first proposal. We all knew that these bats were "different" than the others. Starting with the CF8's last year and the Zens this year. That is why your kids asked for them and you spent almost $900 for just two bats. How many 9 - 10 year olds were not even close to hitting a homerun, but now have magically hit homeruns. The CF8/Zen added 40 to 50 feet to any kid that swings them. That is all fun and good till one of those BB's comes after a pitcher.
The situation sucks and a lot of people are not going to be happy. They might even be out some money. But this is a game and we should not be putting other players (or your own player probably) at undo risk. DeMarini profited of the situation, they should make people whole or equal to before they bought the bats, but these bats should not be brought back or allowed. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2017 : 15:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Question to the group: what response from Demarini would make you happy?
Here's what I propose:
1) Demarini petition USSSA for a tempory waiver thru the 2017 season for the -10 Zen
2) -10 Zen is immediately discontinued a not offered for sale
3) End all warranty claims on the -10 Zen.
4) At the end of 2017 season, any original owner of the -10 Zen (with proof of purchase) can turn his bat in for new USABat compliant model, with a free upgrade to custom graphics.
Anything less than above and I'm thinking Class Action is ahead for them.
While, emotionally, I'd have a tendency to agree with you, in terms of 'class action' or doing more, Demarini has gone above/beyond in indemnifying consumers. $350 credit/voucher, period. No questions. Original owner or not. Bought retail or not. Warranty replacement or not. BUSTED/CRACKED or not. $350 is what you get, if you return one. That's called "indemnifying" you. You've been reimbursed. NOW, my one issue is, you must replace with a Wilson/DeMarini product (inc. Louisville Slugger). Maybe I ONLY wanted the Zen, due to performance, and would have otherwise sought a different manufacturer. That stinks, but again, you've gotten your money back (only to spend at THEIR place).
Class action? Nah, doubt it. That's an emotional response.
Have to agree. Don't see a class action coming. Although this is America, you can sue anyone for anything. |
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coolbeans
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2017 : 17:21:54
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They are offering you exactly what you want. You can send in your bat and get a 2 5/8 zen in return. If the size you need isn't currently available on the site, they have said they are expecting a big shipment near the end of the month with all the sizes they are currently out of. By the time the announcement is made and you get your voucher, they will have whatever size you are looking for. I'm waiting as well until the final announcement and will get the 2 5/8 zen or wait for the new model to come out.
By the way, Demarini has changed their announcement page today. They are now making it a significant point to remind everyone that the ban is PROVISIONAL. Before it seemed as they were saying go ahead send your bat back now. They are either getting too many bats sent back and want to slow it down to make it easier to process them or possibly they now know more and feel they may be reinstated. We'll see.
quote:
Originally posted by RUSemiPro
Keeping our Zen until it ban Official on the 31st. I'd hate to get rid of it and have it overturned and put back to a legal bat and not be able to get another one.
I agree, I think this is a forced attrition deal vs USSSA lead cause, something really stinks here. If DeMarini submitted the wrong bat for testing, now someone is negligent, either DeMarini or the certification agency or both, their best bet is to make their customers happy on this one.
DeMarini has a PR problem on their hands, they should offer Retail price cash refund, or voucher for a little extra on a Wilson family product in my opinion, it's called goodwill. I may want to replace it with a Mako Beast since there are no Zen 2 5/8's available on the market currently, not a voodoo fan and we are definitely not LS fans. So a voucher is better than nothing, but not what we would want either. If DeMarini made 2 5/8 zen to zen swap available that would be fine too, but other than the zen we really are not interested in their other products.
Some smart lawyer will get on this and file a class action suit, they always do. Wilson will settle the case out of court with a non admission of guilt. Just like Disney and the aligators..
Right now at 11U we are in a wait and see mode. If Cooperstown doesn't have any bat rules, well I guess we may save it for then. Just have to be patient and in a wait and see mode.
Originally posted by turntwo
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Edited by - coolbeans on 03/24/2017 18:05:02 |
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2017 : 12:52:49
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Hey guys, thanks for the feedback on my last post. I appreciate we may have different opinions on the matter of indemnity and my house may be in a unique situation having two boys playing this bat and almost $900 invested between them. Like I said before, I do believe in Demarini and have never been disappointed by their customer service response. As soon as I let them know our situation, I believe they will do the right thing.
Unfortunately seems the last few days the customer sevice line has been down. I know they're referring people to the online claim process and are likely inundated will calls but this will probably take a letter or live discussion with a rep to get resolved.
Since I'll be writing a letter to them I was curious if there was anyone else who wanted to join in on this. The power of the written word is not lost in today's world and is still amplified where multiple voices are saying the same thing.
So, does anyone want to go in on a letter with us and what could we agree to ask for? I gave an example of what I was planning to request for my two boys in my first post.
Also, I saw somewhere an idea this whole issue may have started in GA due to a 'complaint'. Anyone have any detail in that?
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2017 : 14:07:44
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| Just got thru to Demarini and all is right with the World. Great company. Can't say enough. Fantastic! |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2017 : 15:10:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Just got thru to Demarini and all is right with the World. Great company. Can't say enough. Fantastic!
What did they agree to? (2 custom CF8 bats???) |
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Ekonopin
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2017 : 16:12:00
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| I took my cf zen back to dicks after using it at practice for a month. They were more than happy to exchange it for an easton mako beast. Now, I did not open this one. If the zen is allowed I am exchanging the beast for the zen. |
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coolbeans
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2017 : 19:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Just got thru to Demarini and all is right with the World. Great company. Can't say enough. Fantastic!
Give us some details so we know what options are out there. |
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2017 : 14:25:36
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Demarini agreed to give us full credit for the total amount we paid. Also told us the credit would not expire, so we could use it over time on multiple bat purchases or wait until next year and splurge again on custom USAbat models. I was half worried they would stick to the $350 limit but our faith in Demarini has been restored. They did the right thing.
They really do seem to understand the disappointment this ruling has caused; like someone came to our house at night and stole my kids Christmas presents. The frustration, from broken bats and Warrenty returns. And the embarrassment, from having previous excellent hitting called into question as if it were due to the bat and not my boys hard work and dedication. Thats a lot for a 10 yr old to deal with but being able to look forward being the one of the first in ATL to swing custom models of the soon to be released USAbat model will help them get over it. In the meantime they'll just go back to dropping bombs with their old 5150.
I'm still writing a letter to them but will be of a different tone. Now one of appreciation and thanks.
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coolbeans
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2017 : 16:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zigzag3141
Demarini agreed to give us full credit for the total amount we paid. Also told us the credit would not expire, so we could use it over time on multiple bat purchases or wait until next year and splurge again on custom USAbat models. I was half worried they would stick to the $350 limit but our faith in Demarini has been restored. They did the right thing.
They really do seem to understand the disappointment this ruling has caused; like someone came to our house at night and stole my kids Christmas presents. The frustration, from broken bats and Warrenty returns. And the embarrassment, from having previous excellent hitting called into question as if it were due to the bat and not my boys hard work and dedication. Thats a lot for a 10 yr old to deal with but being able to look forward being the one of the first in ATL to swing custom models of the soon to be released USAbat model will help them get over it. In the meantime they'll just go back to dropping bombs with their old 5150.
I'm still writing a letter to them but will be of a different tone. Now one of appreciation and thanks.
Was there a tone of they know it's going to be permanently banned or did they express any optimism at all. I don't see how they can approve it after this but I'm just wondering if you got any additional information or could tell anything by the things the rep said. Thanks. |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2017 : 20:45:03
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Get an EASTON.........problem solved |
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2017 : 08:50:02
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So to get through to a rep I had to use the Customer Service # provided with the custom bat order. 800 937 2287. Mark is the name of the rep we spoke with and remembered him from before when he helped with one of our cracked bat returns. Sorry guys he didn't give me any other info about the ban. I was actually pressing him for more info about the new bats,ie. what they'll be called, how they'll be different, when they'll be available and he just laughed. That's all Top Secret stuff apparently. Best I could do was put our name in the hat as ATL area 'testers' if they wanted any early 10u feedback. I'm really hoping that goes somewhere...
To me, why keep a bat that YOU KNOW will break and is now suspect in the rules and regs dept. Even if the ruling is overturned ours is are going back. I'd rather use the money on next year's bats with the new USAbat standard.
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Zigzag3141
24 Posts |
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BaseballNut123
4 Posts |
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bigroc19
158 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2017 : 17:10:23
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| Drop -8 banned today |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 08:05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Update!!!!
Who is ready to swing wood????????
When my son develops more muscle in his wrists and forearms, I'll be ready. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to sacrifice mechanics at his age just yet. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 12:42:31
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| Next year all events will be bbcor for all ages..sell the bats now |
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Dead Red
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 16:20:23
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| TC announced today that both the -10 and -8 CF Zen models are now banned at their tournaments effective today (posted on FB) |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 19:46:58
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Take a few more cuts with them in the cages, then send them back for the vouchers. Best bet wait until Jan 1 then use the voucher for whatever is legal come Jan 1 with the bat changes.
Enforcement will be a nightmare, some zen's banned, some not. Then the retooled ones?? A couple of teams two weeks ago were using the zero dark version to circumvent the rules as the Grand Slam event director either didn't know the models banned or didn't care. The same bat was used by over half the team, the umpires may not have known, but you know the coaches and parents knew. And we knew, coaches didn't want to make a stink. But, with multiple models banned, but not all, it will be interesting on how it is even enforced and which teams decide to cheat or roll the dice and hope they don't get called out on it. DeMarini has got themselves in a big mess.
quote:
Originally posted by Dead Red
TC announced today that both the -10 and -8 CF Zen models are now banned at their tournaments effective today (posted on FB)
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 20:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Update!!!!
Who is ready to swing wood????????
When my son develops more muscle in his wrists and forearms, I'll be ready. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to sacrifice mechanics at his age just yet.
More muscles??? All my generation swung was wood and it was good enough to put many in college and on pro teams.
You are aware the body does not grow more muscles? Existing muscles grow. |
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brball
615 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 23:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Update!!!!
http://www.demarini.com/en-us/cbz17-update#faq-panel
I knew the drop 8 compression numbers were too low after testing a few last week.
Who is ready to swing wood????????
What is your fascination with wood? If it's a safety thing for the younger ages I get it, but at the older ages, kids are swinging the wood just as hard as the drop 10's. You do know this is 2017, not 1917? Let the 12U and under kids swing the hot bat, if there is one left! Ha
What I've never understood is why do travel tourneys at the high school ages make you swing the wood? I'm mean, high school & college doesn't swing wood, correct? Why swing wood when 90% or so won't even see college ball?
Let the kids hit the hot bat as long as possible, if it's legal... And this is coming from a PO dad!!!
Good luck and health to all this season, |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2017 : 08:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by RUSemiPro
Take a few more cuts with them in the cages, then send them back for the vouchers. Best bet wait until Jan 1 then use the voucher for whatever is legal come Jan 1 with the bat changes.
Enforcement will be a nightmare, some zen's banned, some not. Then the retooled ones?? A couple of teams two weeks ago were using the zero dark version to circumvent the rules as the Grand Slam event director either didn't know the models banned or didn't care. The same bat was used by over half the team, the umpires may not have known, but you know the coaches and parents knew. And we knew, coaches didn't want to make a stink. But, with multiple models banned, but not all, it will be interesting on how it is even enforced and which teams decide to cheat or roll the dice and hope they don't get called out on it. DeMarini has got themselves in a big mess.
quote:
Originally posted by Dead Red
TC announced today that both the -10 and -8 CF Zen models are now banned at their tournaments effective today (posted on FB)
Agreed. Outsourcing at it's best.
On another note, the insanity for cf8's has begun:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182510811849?ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152501805610?_trksid=p11010.c100352.m3747&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150112095601%26meid%3D77c4890f91d14d0db9037e2f9c1975df%26pid%3D100352%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D182510811849&ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232291844043?_trksid=p11010.c100352.m3747&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150112095601%26meid%3D77c4890f91d14d0db9037e2f9c1975df%26pid%3D100352%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D182510811849&ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-DeMarini-CF8-29-19-CFZ16/252848045933?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3De19e02dd178b425e85a897cae6bd86fc%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D232291844043
I have 6 of these left over from my testing batch. I'll give it a few weeks before I post them up.
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Edited by - Punishers on 04/08/2017 09:18:49 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2017 : 09:32:05
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| The -10 and -8 are also banned at Perfect Game, correct? |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 04/08/2017 09:49:25 |
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Demarini CF Zen banned by USSSA
