| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Rocky
290 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2009 : 17:50:43
|
| Do you think practicing and playing in the fall may have something to do with the rise in arm injuries. We used to play another sport soccer or football and rest the wing. Also the desire to play was enhanced because you were taking a break. Maybe everyone is just going to a one sport deal now days. |
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 20:09:13
|
Rocky,
I hate to keep being the facts guy, but according to U.S. Government statistics, youth football players have three times the hospital emergency room visits as youth baseball players (on an annual basis).
We play year round baseball as a safety precaution. We are careful however to protect the arm so your point is well taken.
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
Do you think practicing and playing in the fall may have something to do with the rise in arm injuries. We used to play another sport soccer or football and rest the wing. Also the desire to play was enhanced because you were taking a break. Maybe everyone is just going to a one sport deal now days.
|
 |
|
|
TC
89 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 08:41:44
|
| Safety Precaution, that's always the excuse for not playing football or any other sport and playing fall baseball.If you want the facts ask Dr. James Andrews what he thinks about year round baseball. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 08:46:48
|
Rocky,
I think the fall is now used to work on things that you can't when the spring season starts. You have time to go into details that "in season" you can't. Those that do this aren't putting their players at risk. Most usually take Nov and December, at least, off to let the players rest. Those that are trying to play a hard schedule in the fall are potentially putting players at risk of injuries if they are throwing pitchers that have been throwing a lot since last Feb.
I always thought the fall was a great time to throw pitchers that did not get as much time on the mound. Let them work and develop while giving the other guys time to work other positions. What you might find are players that can help you at other positions they have not had a chance to play last season. |
|
|
|
Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 09:08:38
|
| I wont argue the injury statistics, common sense tells me there are more serious injuries in football than baseball, but I am wondering more about the so called burnout and the effect playing year round might have on youth baseball players down the road. I dont know just hoping to get others views on the matter. thanks for the comment and keep them coming, thats what this board is about getting a bunch of differnt views and ideas so parents can make the best decisions for their sons and daughters. |
|
|
|
goyard
217 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 09:32:35
|
"I always thought the fall was a great time to throw pitchers that did not get as much time on the mound. Let them work and develop while giving the other guys time to work other positions. What you might find are players that can help you at other positions they have not had a chance to play last season."
Great way to do it Alter - I would agree! |
|
|
|
teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 13:25:30
|
| we use the fall to work on slashing ..no i didnt say that did i |
|
|
|
Mike Corbin
523 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 14:08:46
|
That is exactly what we use the fall for as well. Get the boys some time at other positions, get more time on the mound (if they did not pitch much in the Spring), switch hit, ect...
|
|
|
|
billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 16:46:49
|
What about little "Timmy" just wanting to play baseball and nothing else. The Fall can be a great time to play baseball if you just want to play baseball. If you want to do the same thing in the Fall that you did in the spring, ENJOY.
Over the years I have had more players hurt themselves off the field (skates, playing pick up baseketball, etc.) than on the field and I coached football for six seasons. While I don't mind kids playing other sports I also don't see a problem with a kid locking in on what he/she likes.
Teddy41 I laughed out loud at your post. Notice I'm old school, I spell it out.
Bill Clark
Collins Hill Eagles (15U) |
|
|
|
loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 18:00:10
|
We just love the game |
|
|
|
AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 09:21:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by billbclk
What about little "Timmy" just wanting to play baseball and nothing else. The Fall can be a great time to play baseball if you just want to play baseball. If you want to do the same thing in the Fall that you did in the spring, ENJOY.
While I don't mind kids playing other sports I also don't see a problem with a kid locking in on what he/she likes.
Bill Clark
Collins Hill Eagles (15U)
I tried for a couple of years to convince my son that he would love football, but all he wanted to do is play baseball. I don't bother anymore.
He's having a blast on his team this fall. Maybe we should move to South Florida so he can play in November, December and January too. |
|
|
|
bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 14:40:44
|
quote:
Safety Precaution, that's always the excuse for not playing football or any other sport and playing fall baseball. If you want the facts ask Dr. James Andrews what he thinks about year round baseball.
While he is an unquestioned expert, Dr. James Andrews has been wrong before about arms and injuries. My question is how is it that Florida, California, Texas, and Caribbean kids can play year round - every year - and not have this discussion? People talk about how these are hotbeds of baseball and baseball talent. Uh, maybe it's because they play year round?
I'm just saying... |
|
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 16:07:21
|
ROCKY:
Unless your own son has had arm and/or burnout issues, its hard to see your perspective clearly. I've been through both this year, so have learned to moderate from now on. We might even skip Fall ball next year to play Football ...on the Wii.
My son is geeked for hoops. I had better check the Governments safety stats on that :}
Glad your open to dialogue on both sides. We have a lot of classy blogger's on this forum, so thanks to you-know-who for that.
|
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 16:21:11
|
My son has always played year round except one year when he played football. He may have even played that year, I don't remember. He is a pitcher and has never had an arm problem other than soreness and his shoulder got tight once earlier this year. He is 16 now. I know the fine folks at ASMI recommend 2-3 months a year of no throwing, but he took a month off after this summer season and had a hard time coming back. Velocity remained, but he got sore quickly. If he wanted to play football or some other sport, I would have encouraged it. In fact, I have tried to get him to play other sports. He just likes baseball. Too much time off, and he gets antsy to get back on the field.
This year, his summer team is only doing Sunday workouts - and they just started yesterday. He has had a couple of showcase events he participated in and we have been working on our own much of the fall. I think burnout depends on the kid. In terms of overuse, I think just make sure the pitcher gets plenty of rest between outings and don't pitch past the point of fatigue. Time off all fall? I'm not convinced it is something you have to do. |
|
|
|
oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 17:29:19
|
| What most people don't take into account is that most of those that excel at their position do all of the extra things that protect them from injury. For pitchers there are some very specific exercises they can do year round to protect them. I have 3 pitchers, not one arm issue ever, but they go the extra mile. Most of the time when there are injuries it is due to an un-educated coach, over agressive parent or lazy child. Although, I am a firm proponent of playing multiple sports, as mine do, they still play baseball at the same time, their choice. Knowledge is everything when it comes to playing a sport correctly. The rest you have no control over. |
|
|
|
biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 22:52:36
|
| College and Pro pitchers overwhelmingly come from cold weather areas. Why is this the case? Because an arm is like a tire. It only has so many miles in it. Players and parents must then choose to use up their miles in youth yr round baseball or save some for a shot at the next level. This is why so many "studs" at 9, 10, 11, and 12 fall off the face of the earth while unknowns step forward. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 09:45:01
|
biged,
Where are the stats on College and Pro pitchers coming from cold weather areas? Now you might be able to convince me that more warm weather players, that pitch, tend to make it as position players and therefore don't pitch as much in College or the Pro's, but to say that most of the pitchers at college or pro's are from Northernn states is hard for me to buy without statistical proof.
Also, philosophically I disagree with your comment that arms have so many pitches in them. If that were the case, our hips, knees and other joints would have the same issue. We see hip replacement and knee replacement surgeries in older people but not EVERYONE has to have it, just like not EVERY pitcher will eventually run out of pitches. |
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 09:47:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by biged
College and Pro pitchers overwhelmingly come from cold weather areas. Why is this the case? Because an arm is like a tire. It only has so many miles in it. Players and parents must then choose to use up their miles in youth yr round baseball or save some for a shot at the next level. This is why so many "studs" at 9, 10, 11, and 12 fall off the face of the earth while unknowns step forward.
Not sure that's true biged. Of the top 30 MLB draft picks, 16 were pitchers and only 5 were from northern colleges or high schools. Also, I am not convinced of the "so many pitches in an arm" theory. I think if a pitcher is careful about getting rest between outings, not pitching while fatigued, keeping himself in proper condition and employing good mechanics, there does not have to be a limit. Some pitchers may get hurt regardless what they do and some may go on forever, but if you do the above, you should increase your longevity. There really is no evidence that suggests there are "so many pitches" in an arm. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 10:01:29
|
Biged,
Looking at the rosters for GA and GA Tech, the ratio of pitchers from the south (depending on whether you consider VA the south or not) vs pitchers from the north is 27-3. Now I would say that if you went to northern schools the ratio would be reversed. I think college players stay pretty regional (there are always a few players from further off) so that discredits your statement related to college pitchers.
As for pro pitchers, there are as many, or more, from a lot further south (Dominican, PR, Cuba, Mexico, etc) as there are from the southern United States. You know those players pitch year round, which goes toward discrediting your pro statement.
I still think the solution is to develop a good program to stay in shape and not do damage to the arm. Also finding a situation where you don't get overused is important as well. Don't be the workhorse on any team. |
|
|
|
biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 11:44:18
|
Just like tires have brands that last longer so goes arms. Some arms last longer then others when all other things are equal. The info I am getting about the arm wearing out came from a doctor in Ashville who was working w/ a 13 year old w/ rotator cuff problems. Now the analogy regarding knees and hips reinforces the argument that body parts wear out. some sooner then others.
I have also read that many of the injuries/dead arms are a result of a lack of use. Kids do not do enough throwing in the off season. Throwing not pitching, there is a huge difference. Long toss seems to be the best medicine for this.
Me personally, feel we (atlanta area) pitch our kids way too much. Were I moved from in S. Fla it is even a bigger concern. Many of the top tier players at 10, 11, and 12 do not even pitch anymore due to arm issues. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 12:40:48
|
biged,
I think we are on the same page in that I think a lot more throwing goes on than preparing to throw. Kids don't throw from the flat enough or long toss to develop. They save their throwing time for pitching in games.
In the grand scheme of things, everything wears out. Arms, hips, knees, hearts, etc. How we take care of them dictates more about when than the count. |
|
|
|
Stickman316
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 14:33:38
|
Let's talk about a long-tossing program.
Year round?
How many days a week?
How many minutes each session?
Can a player long toss too much? What's too much?
What about throwing w/ weighted balls?
Do you think genetics plays more a role in arm injuries vs. the tire illustration?
|
|
|
|
Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 15:17:15
|
Some great responses to this post and it doesnt look like we will know whether playing fall baseball causes more or less arm injuries or promotes burnout or not. I guess it depends on the player in both cases, genetics and the roll of the dice.
I have been reading a bunch of articles that talk about the korean youth baseball players throwing bull pens like the japanese in the majors, 100 pitches and it doesnt seem to effect them, dont know if it will later on or not. Someone said a few months back on another subject, parents try and make the best decisions for their kids and I think thats what we as parents do. Just enjoy the time doing whatever because it will be over before we know it. |
|
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 16:51:31
|
MLB players who were active from 2004 to 2009. These are all players, not just pitchers, but I'd say this would be reflective of pitchers as a group... More from warmer climate's.
A Total of 2447 Players Found
State Count Percentage
Other Countries 668 27.3%
California 400 16.3%
Texas 165 6.7%
Florida 143 5.8%
Illinois 78 3.2%
Georgia 75 3.1%
New York 64 2.6%
Ohio 64 2.6%
Pennsylvania 47 1.9%
Louisiana 39 1.6% |
|
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 09:37:31
|
TC said: "Safety Precaution, that's always the excuse for not playing football or any other sport and playing fall baseball.If you want the facts ask Dr. James Andrews what he thinks about year round baseball."
Our Coach just said: "...injured his collar bone in his football game last weekend – he’ll not be playing baseball Sunday..."
BMOSER says: I'll take a strained arm over a broken collar bone. Glad I had a good excuse for my son not to play football.
Boys parents said: @$#%&* football!!! |
|
|
|
whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 15:08:23
|
Now here is a way to look at it..my son hurt his elbow during baseball, it healed during football even though he threw a ton of passes each day as throwing thumb up was ok..however we just got home from the doctor and he chipped his hip bone in football.
I think sports in general cause injury |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Why the rush for travel baseball in the fall
