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christheump
351 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2011 : 12:20:17
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Originally posted by itsaboutbb
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
The runner must slide OR attempt to avoid contact. There are 2 rules of thought regarding what happens when a player gets hurts during live play and the type of injury it appears to be. "Little Johnny" that misplay a hop and take one to the funny bone and stands there shaking his arm is play on. The same "Little Johnny" that takes a line drive squarely is a different story. 1. Kill It....As an umpire who has kids, their safety is paramount. I will deal with runner placement later and any complaints from the coaches. 2. EVERY coach I have dealt with has had ZERO problems with me killing a play, and I have found that everyone of them will actually hold their runners, and in most OC's are even on their way onto the field to check on the kid. I would rather deal with an irate coach over runner placement than an irate coach and parent over letting their kid lay on the ground writhing in pain with an unknown injury.
The second part of your question was about interefence, acutally obstruction in this case, is a judgement call. It is hard to say one way or the other. As far as the coach getting tossed, there may be more to the story that just getting tossed for asking a question.
Saw a kid get tossed in 2 different tourneys for trying to take out the catcher...Seems to me he should go play football.
It wont change once he gets in to HS either...I see most kids in HS getting tossed for just that reason. Catchers and Pitchers dont forget too easily in that age group either, if ya know what I mean. |
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hector130052
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 02:29:15
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Originally posted by christheump
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Originally posted by 22202
Do umps have to have a certain amount of experience in rec ball before being able to do tournament games? Are there "evaluators" (other than the parents and coaches) that look over umps periodically? We had a horribly missed call at 2nd this weekend where our catcher threw out the runner and he was called safe. On the next field switch our coach asked what he saw to call him safe and the response was, "this is my 2nd game I guess I missed that one"! HOLY COW!!
Personally speaking yes. I did rec ball for a couple of years before even being called to do travel. Then, I received more training from my ump boss on the field and off. I started off with younger ages working with more experienced guys, working my way up. My ump boss is at the park on Tourney Days 95% of the time, making his rounds, and is ALWAYS one phone call away for me to pick his brain on a rule afterwards. I still work with a guy with more experience, even after doing USSSA for a few years, and I still carry my OBR and USSSA rules in the car with me.
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:08:29
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I want to start by saying an I truly feel umpires or officials do not cost a team a game, but several bad calls can change the dynamics of a game. Now for my rant, as I am tired of having umpires that do not understand the game of baseball and the basic rule of a balk.
We are in a tremendous game yesterday, in bracket play none the less. A left handed pitcher, while toeing the rubber, fakes a pick off to first. He does not step off, but disengages from the front of the rubber. Everyone in the park knew it was a balk, except the umpires. When our coach asked for an interpretation, the umpire stated, "A right handed pitcher can fake to third, so a left hand pitcher can fake to first." May be I have been taught wrong or missed something, but this is wrong. By all means, if I am wrong, someone please correct me on this. We are in a war with one of the top teams in the country. If a balk was called, we have a runner in scoring position with less than two outs and it is a scoreless game at this point.
It seems over the years, the quality of officiating in youth sports in general has gone down hill. People speak of the popularity of sports increasing and the supply of good officiating is not meeting the demand. Honestly, that is not an excuse for us to pay tournament fees, that include fees for umpires and deal with mediocrity. If they are getting paid to do a job, then do your job! If I were to perform at my job the way some of these umpires perform their jobs, I would be fired!!! In my opinion, having well officiated games has become the minority versus the majority. The attitude these umpires project when simply asking for an interpretation is unacceptable and disrespectful. At the end of the day, they need to understand that we are the customer and have a right to ask a question. Just had to get this off of my chest as we lost a one run ball game and I do not think these umpires understand the impact that missed calls contributes to the outcome of highly competitive games with varying strike zones, horrible rules interpretations and horrible attitudes.
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 08:13:33
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| All the travel ball coaches and parents have run almost all the good ones away. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 10:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
All the travel ball coaches and parents have run almost all the good ones away.
I believe you. I saw a coach get run on Sunday over a ball/strike call that wasn't obviously bad to me. Once he got run, he kept on and on and even his team's fans started getting chippy.
I heard he got run on Monday, too. I agree that it's Blue's responsibility to do a good job, but they don't get paid enough to take the kind of garbage I hear on a pretty regular basis.
What I saw/heard were horrible examples being set for the players both from the dugout and the stands. I'm told it carries over to the field on occasion as well.
To where have the good ones been run off? |
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Scorekeeper
35 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 10:28:56
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Since when did all the umps grow rabbit ears.
They need to tune out the 'fans' behind them and concentrate on the game. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 12:38:02
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| If you can't take the heat, don't get in a frying pan! I really appreciate it when an umpire can just tune out fans or parents....There is no reason to even acknowledge it IMO |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 14:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Scorekeeper
Since when did all the umps grow rabbit ears.
They need to tune out the 'fans' behind them and concentrate on the game.
This is directed at "fans" and not coaches...
I am human and I have ears, it's really easy to tune the "fans" out because what happens outside the fence is of real no concern of mine. But it still does not mean we cant hear you. I can think only a few times when I have even reacted to any "fans" comments:
1. When "fans" from both sides were yelling and screaming at each other and were converging behind homeplate spewing forth such venom and threats I had to call time and talk to both HC's. (Twice in my time umpiring) It's sad to see and hear how some "fans" are setting examples for their kids.
2. "Hey Blue, do you need some water?" followed by a "Yes, Please!" and a "Thank You".
Let me ask some of you "fans" that are on here a few questions.
1. Do you really think that if we screw up we dont get reprimanded? Because it does happen. I've seen my boss pull a guy from the field in the middle of a game.
2. Have you ever thought that sometimes, just sometimes, we just might have loved ones sitting in the bleachers being there for support or because they want to go watch their father, husband, boyfriend doing something he loves doing, only to leave in disgust over some of the personal attacks that take place towards us?? That person quietly sitting in the stands without team colors just might be one of ours.
3. Have you ever stopped and thought about what is about to come out of your mouth? Because once you open it an say it, it never comes back. Much like a bullet fired from a gun.
4. Much like #3 above, have you ever thought of what your kids on the baseball fields really think about how you are acting? Kids tend to tell us a lot about your actions. Your kids are watching and taking note.
Look I know you "fans" pay a lot of good money to play travel ball, and there is a certain expectation regarding umpires. I truly respect your dollar and I have have a certain expectation level for myself. I can not speak on the behalf of other umpires, but I do my best each and every game. I am sorry I dont fraternize with the fans during the game like I have seen some umps do. I have found it only gets you in trouble. But I have been known to talk to you after the game. I have been told I sucked, stinked, am horrible, pathetic, I am a sorry excuse for a person, great umpire, best ump crew of the tourney, consistant, and the best. I have been lucky enough to call games for a couple of teams on here and I promise you the fans and coaches may not have agreed with every one of my calls, but they should be able to tell you I hustled on every play and did my best on every call.
But you have to remember in baseball:
* As an umpire 50% of the people will love you, 50% will hate you.
* There are 4 calls on every close play: Fans, Players, Coaches, and Umpires.
* There is no crying in baseball. |
Edited by - christheump on 06/01/2011 14:31:55 |
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 14:29:51
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I agree that there has to be a level of respect and civility between umpires and coaches. When coaches and fans cross that line, throw them out. I hate that some of the good ones have been run off. However, those that remain have to know what they are getting in to and decide whether or not they can be objective and fair. I am only asking that the umpires simply know the rules!
Consistent with what Allstar and Spartan4 mentioned, the best umpires we have had this year, have been those that do not engage coaches and fans. If they sense things are getting out of hand, they go to both coaches and issue warnings. Any more after the warnings warrants ejections, nothing more nothing less that is it. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 15:01:21
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| I enjoy hearing your opinion and your side Chris, I think we all agree that we appreciate a little hustle out of officials in all sports. And I can absoultely agree with Morris that part of being an umpire should be simply knowing the rules, I have argued with umpires before and just made something up they went along with. Laughed about it the whole way home!! It was funny but it should NEVER happen!! |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 15:04:08
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I wish we could just get fans sitting in the stands, that don't know the rules or the strategy of baseball, to be quiet and enjoy watching the game. It is amazing how many fans want to spout off stuff out loud and are competely wrong.
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 15:09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
I enjoy hearing your opinion and your side Chris, I think we all agree that we appreciate a little hustle out of officials in all sports. And I can absoultely agree with Morris that part of being an umpire should be simply knowing the rules, I have argued with umpires before and just made something up they went along with. Laughed about it the whole way home!! It was funny but it should NEVER happen!!
Were you the one that was trying to tell me that because the fielder had both feet in fair territory and the ball was in foul, it was a fair ball??  |
Edited by - christheump on 06/01/2011 16:32:05 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 17:41:35
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LOL, nope!! We had a lefty do a double move similar to the first-third move a RH pitcher would do. It was clearly a balk and it was the tying run so I made the comment that once the pitcher disengages the rubber he becomes a fielder!! Surprisingly both umpires convened and came to the conclusion that I must be correct......One of the other coaches was PISSED!!!!
We had a boy dive across the line playing 3b and couldn't catch the ball but the ball was called fair. Apparently according to this wonderful umpire at EC, "if any part of the fielders body is in fair territory then the ball will be deemed fair.....he even said 1000% of the time"!!! Of course the other umpire told him he was wrong, but it had us laughing for awhile!! |
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Jacked-up
59 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2011 : 16:49:53
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This should qualify for another subject, but can get it started here...
Why are umps strike zones soooo different? I typically sit right behind home plate or slightly off to one side. I see catchers line-up in the other batters box and catch the pitch perfectly as if over middle of the plate. Ump calls a strike but the ball is clearly 6 inches to a foot wide. This is at the major level so there is a higher expectation of play by both players and umps.
So UMPs out there, what/how are you taught to call strikes? |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 08:40:51
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Some umps are taught to work the slot and some are taught to work differently. I have tried the slot, and personally can not stand it. The slot is the void position between the catcher and batter. I have tried it and I will admit, I had a hard time with the outside pitch with it. Others have told me, it just takes getting use to. But like I said, I couldn't stand it. I tend to work directly behind the catcher with my head slightly offset over either shoulder. The reason I like working like this is if the catcher sets up inside, I adjust to the outside shoulder and vice versa which usually give me good coverage of the enitre plate, up/down, in/out. The only downside to working like this is you do tend to get blasted with fouls that come shooting straight back at ya. But those are easy to deal with...Just dont turn your head, you have a mask-use it.
Another thing is relative distance. "Most" umps with give some on the outside, say a ball off. Sometimes that ball off may look like 6-12 inches off the plate, but it usually isnt, but it does happen.
Some of the most over-used synonyms:
1. Letter high breaking ball : That was at his eyes.
2. Inside pitch : That almost hit him.
3. Painting the outside with a perfect fastball : That was a mile outside.
4. Fastball at the knees : That was at his shoe strings.
Yes, strike zones do vary from ump to ump, it even happens at the MLB level. The key is just be consistent. |
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nwgadad
137 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 10:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Yes, strike zones do vary from ump to ump, it even happens at the MLB level. The key is just be consistent.
Consistancy is all we ask for. A lot of us fans will say, at least he is calling it on both sides! Whether it is right or wrong, just make it the same for both teams!  |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 11:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by nwgadad
Consistancy is all we ask for. A lot of us fans will say, at least he is calling it on both sides! Whether it is right or wrong, just make it the same for both teams!
My son was catching a game earlier this year. After a few innings I asked him where the strike zone was. His answer: "I have no idea" :-) To be fair, that was just one event. We played this past weekend with a younger ump. I really thought is was going to be a long day. But he did a great job. I did not agree with 100% of his calls, then then most are subjective. I was talking to the head ump later in the day, and mentioned how good I thought he was.
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momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 15:09:33
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| My boys both pitch well, and many times this year we have had times when their strike zone is the size of a dinner plate and the opposing(not good) pitcher has a noticeably larger one. One of mine catches too and has seen this a lot. He is very respectful of the umps we have, but this problem has really changed the way he feels about them. DO umps "even things up" at times? We have had some really close games this year that would have been different if both sides were called consistently. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 16:30:41
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| Never even things up. No way no how. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2011 : 23:42:37
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| I get sick and tired of seeing the better pitcher get squeezed.....It happens ALOT!! Usually the kid who throws hard has to throw thru a straw to get a strike and the kid who throws really slow can't miss. It doesn't happen every game but it happens at least once a weekend where we have a game with a ridiculously inconsistent strike zones, but you have to teach boys to adjust and learn to cope with the zone even if it is tight OR if it happens to be wide open! |
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gatoremt
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 17:32:54
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As a umpire we do have off days on the field. There are some days behind the plate I feel like I cannot get anything right. On getting good umps, here is a thought. Most tourneys put the umps up in 2 bedrooms for 12 umps. Then they expect them to umpire 3 to 5 games a day. That is a lot for any umpire. So with the heat from working the games the guys get tired and things happen. There is never an excuse for screwing up rules, but here is one thing to remember. Most of us umpire’s, ump many different levels and leagues from LL, Cal Ripken, Babe Ruth, Dizzy Dean, USSSA, NFHS, JUCO, and NCAA just to post a few. Each has there on set of rules. Each park and tourney we do has their own version of rules for us to follow. So it can get confusing. It is hard to completely ignore the fans. Us umps have feelings to you know. I always try to get all the calls correct, but that is not going to happen. I have a very slow trigger for throwing people out of games.
On the strike zone there is a text book version and every umpire will give you a different answer. I have always worked the Slot. The people in the stands do not understand a lot of the times the strike is called at the plate not where the catcher catches the ball. So when your catcher is setting up deep it is going to look like something different. There are so many factors that go into umpiring. I would challenge all to just go and umpire for a couple of months and you will have a different view. Most umpires that go and do travel ball also do High School or college baseball. We are test every year and monitored often by our associations. You are always going to have a few bad apples that slip in thou. Just my 2 cents thou.
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:21:42
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It is human nature to make mistakes. Everyone on the baseball field makes mistakes throughout the course of the game.... Players, Coaches, Parents and yes, Umps...
Why is it that it's ok to scream and haggle with the ump? What if your shortstop bobbled a ball and it cost you a run, do you shoot out onto the field yelling at him? Do you scream at him how his blown play just cost your team the game and how he needs to get some glasses so he can see the ball next time?
When you, as a coach, put a DH in and the DH strikes out, does the kid who you replaced come back screaming at you about how bad of a coaching decision that was? What if you call for a steal on a pitch-out, does the base runner run over and berate you telling you you need glasses b/c the pitchout sign was SOOOOO obvious your 90yr old mother could have seen it???
All that said, I do think that some haggling with the ump is just part of the game, but I think most coaches (and all parents) take it WAAAAAAAY too far.
btw, umps are just here to do a job. What if you made a typo and your boss came into your office screaming at you... how would that make you feel? I know umps are supposed to have thick skin, but cmon guys, you have to cut them a break here and there. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 11:57:39
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quote:
Originally posted by rustybucket
It is human nature to make mistakes. Everyone on the baseball field makes mistakes throughout the course of the game.... Players, Coaches, Parents and yes, Umps...
Why is it that it's ok to scream and haggle with the ump? What if your shortstop bobbled a ball and it cost you a run, do you shoot out onto the field yelling at him? Do you scream at him how his blown play just cost your team the game and how he needs to get some glasses so he can see the ball next time?
When you, as a coach, put a DH in and the DH strikes out, does the kid who you replaced come back screaming at you about how bad of a coaching decision that was? What if you call for a steal on a pitch-out, does the base runner run over and berate you telling you you need glasses b/c the pitchout sign was SOOOOO obvious your 90yr old mother could have seen it???
All that said, I do think that some haggling with the ump is just part of the game, but I think most coaches (and all parents) take it WAAAAAAAY too far.
btw, umps are just here to do a job. What if you made a typo and your boss came into your office screaming at you... how would that make you feel? I know umps are supposed to have thick skin, but cmon guys, you have to cut them a break here and there.
Many parents and coaches would say it is part of the job and we get paid for it and if we dont like the screaming to quit. But I still love doing it regardless of what is said to me. |
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rustybucket
67 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 14:19:23
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All I'm trying to say, I guess, is that you can have an argument/disagreement without belittling or berating or personally attacking an ump.
I'll be the first one to admit that a manager/ump confrontation is as part of the game as hot dogs and pickles. But coaches and fans that persist after the call (sometimes for several innings) and take it to a personal level and try to berate the ump.
While I've got you, christheump, is it considered bad/good to offer an ump access to your team water cooler? It was 100deg the other day and the ump looked parched, I offered and he obliged but the assistant coach looked at me like I had lost my mind.... I've been out of the game for a while, did I make a faux pas? |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 16:08:26
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| Personally, I appreciate it. It is not bad. I try to bring my own to the field, but sometimes I go right through them. I've seen all levels, including MLB umps(albiet bottled water) get that. It is just really a courtesy IMO. |
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When umps don't know rules!!!
