| Author |
 Topic  |
|
4 seam
46 Posts |
 Posted - 03/30/2011 : 08:45:09
|
What s the rule of playing up in age and classes?
Can a major team play up in age and pay AA or do they need to to play AAA? |
|
|
Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 12:39:27
|
| As I understand it if you move up in age you can only drop one classification. So because we are an 11U major team we are only allowed to participate in 12U AAA or 12U Major. I could be wrong and I would like to hear more opinions as well. |
 |
|
|
bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 14:53:35
|
I just scanned the rules, and the only restriction is listed under the World Series section and says if a team plays up in age, they must play at the same classification, or above.
I cannot find any restrictions for Qualifiers, or State tourneys. |
|
|
|
gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 02:07:09
|
| Spartan4 you are right...up 1 age and down 1 class.. |
|
|
|
ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 10:28:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by gausssa
Spartan4 you are right...up 1 age and down 1 class..
The 11U AA tournament in Flowery Branch has 3 10U major teams in it, can the tournament director make up his own rules then? |
|
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 10:55:25
|
| I would hope an 11u team wouldn't complain about ANY 10u team playing up. There are a lot of challenges for a 10u team in that position. |
|
|
|
Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:07:44
|
| Do points earned in an open tourney count towards your total points?? I was scanning 11U major teams and a few have won open tourneys but have zero points?? |
|
|
|
rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:20:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
quote:
Originally posted by gausssa
Spartan4 you are right...up 1 age and down 1 class..
The 11U AA tournament in Flowery Branch has 3 10U major teams in it, can the tournament director make up his own rules then?
I think so. We are in a tourney that lumped AA and AAA together just to make a tourney and 2 of the AA teams got hosed and have to play both pool games against AAA teams while one AAA team plays 2 AA teams. I'm just sayin'... |
|
|
|
bball99
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:38:28
|
| If gausssa is agreeing that 10Major shouldn't be playing in a 11AA tournament, then why is it happening in Flowery Branch this weekend? They can make their own division; a 10 open division. Bandit Hawk-sure the distances are greater for the 11 yr old fields, but when you are talking about some of the top 10 major teams, not sure it will make a big difference to them. Plus several of the AA teams have 3-4 10 year olds on their team. It looks like many on the forum are picking the 10 yr old teams to win the tournament! Oh well! |
|
|
|
christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:50:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
quote:
Originally posted by gausssa
Spartan4 you are right...up 1 age and down 1 class..
The 11U AA tournament in Flowery Branch has 3 10U major teams in it, can the tournament director make up his own rules then?
There looks to be some pretty good 11AA teams in the tourney at F/B this weekend. Coach Tony, wished I had your games this weekend. But schedule conflicts are keeping me out of this one for Saturday, but I might get some of the bracket games on Sunday. |
|
|
|
momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:01:29
|
Rippit- That happened to our AA team in 2 tournaments last year. It was tough to lose those games, but it did make us play better ball. We were a new team an it helped us learn a lot early in the season.
At the FB tournament, since a lot of the major teams tend to pick "older" 10 yr olds, I don't think that the field size should be too much of a factor. Some of these kids are probably very close to the younger 11 yr olds that are probably on the AA teams. IMO they should be playing AAA or higher unless it's an open tournament. |
|
|
|
coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:05:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
Coach Tony, wished I had your games this weekend. But schedule conflicts are keeping me out of this one for Saturday, but I might get some of the bracket games on Sunday.
I am actually in Arizona until Saturday Night so I wont even be at the Pool Games....but I will be there on Sunday. If you see the Force just look for me, I am the really fat guy with the blonde hair that you can tell has been colored because he was going through a midlife crisis and couldn't afford a convertible. ;)
--T
|
|
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:20:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by momshell
Rippit- That happened to our AA team in 2 tournaments last year. It was tough to lose those games, but it did make us play better ball. We were a new team an it helped us learn a lot early in the season.
At the FB tournament, since a lot of the major teams tend to pick "older" 10 yr olds, I don't think that the field size should be too much of a factor. Some of these kids are probably very close to the younger 11 yr olds that are probably on the AA teams. IMO they should be playing AAA or higher unless it's an open tournament.
I can't speak for the other 10u teams but our team (Mill Creek) actually has 5 players that are no where near being 11 years old. They are actually eligible to play 9u this year.
|
|
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:23:12
|
| I can't believe someone would actually object to ANY 10 year old team playing in the Flowery Branch tournament. IMO, any team playing up should be applauded for doing so. It takes guts to do it. Why should anyone care what class they are in? They are playing up an entire age group !! The field size is bigger, the mound is farther and the base paths are longer. Come on, don't start making excuses before the tournament even starts !! |
|
|
|
Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 15:03:55
|
| Maybe the 11u teams that have a problem with it should pull out???? They do have a choice..... Looks like the 10's just want to play ball. It will make for better competition in the tournament. The 10's can be beat! |
Edited by - Gwinnett on 03/31/2011 19:29:56 |
|
|
|
wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 16:22:54
|
Teams that are playing AA are playing there for a reason.
Maybe a new team that needs to build confidence, teamwork, etc. Not to Play Major teams.
If a 10U major team wants to play up by all means applaude them (in AAA). If a AA team signs up for AAA tournament then so be it. The rules are there for a reason, why not follow them.
If 10U Majors really want to face bigger tougher competition, they should play 11U Major.
|
|
|
|
momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 20:03:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by wareagle
Teams that are playing AA are playing there for a reason.
Maybe a new team that needs to build confidence, teamwork, etc. Not to Play Major teams.
If a 10U major team wants to play up by all means applaude them (in AAA). If a AA team signs up for AAA tournament then so be it. The rules are there for a reason, why not follow them.
If 10U Majors really want to face bigger tougher competition, they should play 11U Major.
Totally Agree!!
|
|
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 21:29:41
|
"Teams that are playing AA are there for a reason"
What are the reasons teams are playing AA ? Aren't these travel teams ? Aren't these players seeking a more competitive environment to play and learn? Don't they want to be challenged by better competition than they had in rec ball?
Do you only seek weak competition if you are a AA team so that you can build confidence? |
|
|
|
Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 22:30:12
|
| Me and you are on the same page Bandit. The toughest game mine has pitched this season has been against a 10U major team. AA IMO is one more classification than is needed. We are an 11U major team and there are 12AA teams that sandbag that can really crush us, and there are 12U AAA teams that we can beat. Seems to me like a lot of people would rather win at a lower classification than COMPETE at a higher class. Exactly why travel ball as a whole is watered down IMO...WAY TOO MANY TEAMS |
|
|
|
momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 23:41:33
|
| It is so disappointing to hear that the boys who are just starting out in travel ball shouldn't be there according to some of you. Watered down? Give me a break! Most of the AA teams are newly put together and need a little experience before they can even think about competing against major teams that have been out there a while. Rec ball in our neck of the woods means 10 games a season, so not a lot of chance to get past the very basics. There is no in between. Travel ball gets us 70+ games a season, so much better chance to learn and get better. Our team welcomes a challenge and we do not seek out only teams we can beat, but a major team isn't going to get any better by playing us either and that doesn't mean we don't deserve to play travel ball. |
|
|
|
wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:36:05
|
quote:
What are the reasons teams are playing AA ? Aren't these travel teams ? Aren't these players seeking a more competitive environment to play and learn? Don't they want to be challenged by better competition than they had in rec ball?
Do you only seek weak competition if you are a AA team so that you can build confidence?
Certainly, there are some very good AA teams that sandbag, etc.
There are many AA teams and obviously they are AA for different reasons.
Since it would be impossible to evaluate each team for each tournament, why dont we just follow the rules that have been put in place to try to keep competition fair.
If your logic holds true, why dont we do away with classifications in high school and college as well. Do they not only want to face the best.
quote:
Exactly why travel ball as a whole is watered down IMO...WAY TOO MANY TEAMS
This is why we play in different classes.
The classifications are set for reasons. All travel teams do not have to be elite. It is really about boys who love the game, wanting to play and learn regardless of whether they are elite players or not.
It would be interesting to see how many of these AA players mature and beat out todays studs. |
|
|
|
TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 09:09:06
|
Momshell, you seem more than a little defensive and I don't blame you since it is your son you are defending. Please don't read anything into what I've said. I never said that any of these teams or players didn't belong in travel ball. I simply asked a couple of questions that might cause you to consider another point of view. I'm with you 100% about the reasons to play travel ball. The rec season seems to be over as soon as it starts. Travel ball provides so many more opportunities to these young boys to grow and learn not just baseball but life lessons.
On the flip side, I am probably more defensive about some of you trying to keep the 10u teams from playing in this tournament because one of them is the team my son plays on. I have an older son who has played up and there can be a HUGE difference between two boys that are separated by one year. Both the 11u and 10u teams have so much that can be learned by playing each other. There are as many challenges presented to the older group as there are the younger group. In baseball and life I want my son to learn how to face these challenges, not run away from them.
Bottom line, our boys just want to play ball this weekend. If there was another tournament that suited our team better, we would be there. Since this weekend is the beginning of Spring Break for a lot of the boys, our options are limited. I think when you see the size difference between most of your players and ours you will likely feel less threatened.
Best of luck to your son and his team this weekend ! |
|
|
|
momshell
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 10:28:10
|
Bandithawk I appreciate your reply. I also appreciate that your boys want to play this weekend and the pickins are slim due to Spring break. My boys do not play in your age group. They are on a 13U team whose players are all in the younger half of that age group, and trust me when I say that makes a big difference at 13. We played a team twice in the Super NIT (AA) that had a bearded (not a joke!) player who not only looked like a man, he moved like one and had the strength of one. The team was an interesting mix of 3 strong teams from the previous year. They have since been moved to AAA. We had fun playing them even though we lost both times. We learned a lot that we needed to learn and so it did help us, but I don't know that I would want to do that every weekend. I don't think the experience taught their team anything or made them any better.
I didn't stick my nose into this conversation because I have a problem your team, I just have a problem with people saying AA boys don't belong on the travel field. I actually enjoy reading your posts about your team. Good luck to you this weekend and I look forward to reading about it. |
|
|
|
Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:34:14
|
| Just because I said I personally think travel baseball is watered down DOES NOT mean I don't think these boys should be allowed to play! I just don't think we need to keep coming up with new classifications to cater to the weaker teams. The classifications haven't always been around, and IMO there are several major players dominating AA so daddy can have something to talk about around the water cooler.(again just my opinion) The "elite" or "major" teams have to travel out of state every other weekend because travel ball organizations want to cater to where they make the money(the hundred AAA/AA teams). I understand the classifications I just wish there weren't so many! Sorry if I offended anybody but I guess I consider it a little watered down because I remember(not long ago) when travel baseball had 25 teams per age group statewide, the EC Astros and then 24 other teams who were evenly matched. |
|
|
|
Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:58:08
|
I try, sometimes, to read these posts and take them, as intended, with a grain of salt.............
......but sometimes the arrogance and self-centeredness of some of the statements I read are just too much for me to read and remain silent on.
"Travel ball is too watered down."
This statement, taken to its only logical conclusion, would suggest that there are kids playing travel ball who shouldn't be.
Who, then, should the arbiter be to tell the kids (who may not have the skills to compete at an elite level) that they cannot play travel ball?
I guess this begs the question.....What is travel ball?
My son loves the game of baseball. It never failed that when he played rec. ball his team would consist of;
3 or 4 kids who loved the game like he did who were pretty good ball players, a couple of kids who loved the game, loved to play, but didn't necessarily have the skills or abilities to play at a high level(100% effort, came to every practice, worked their tails off but just weren't athletic enough ) A couple of kids who would rather chase butterflies in the outfield, and a couple of kids who would look you in the eye and say "my daddy makes me play".
For those kids in the middle, the ones who give a hundred percent, show up for every practice, but will probably never make the all-star team, 10 or 12 games and their season is over. If you asked them, I bet every one of them would say that they would like to play more games. Travel ball gives them that opportunity. Will they compete with major teams? No. Can they go out and have fun (as ten, eleven, twelve, year olds) playing the game that they love? Sure they can, by competing against teams of their similar skill level. Of course, this wouldn't be possible if the travel ball elitist had their way. How dare some no talent, baseball player wannabe infringe on little stud Johnny's God given right to display his dominance on the travel ball circuit.
I will never forget the sheer joy radiating from my sons face the first time, as an all-star player, we pulled into an opponent's field for a tournament. The excitement of traveling to another teams "home turf" to play baseball, the fun had between games playing with kids from other parts of the county or state. Memories he will cherish for a lifetime. Kids who don't make the allstar team can experience that playing travel baseball. Unless of course the travel baseball commission doesn't deem them worthy.
Travel baseball gives kids the opportunity to:
1. Play on a team on which every player "wants" to be there.
2. Travel to other parks, enjoy the "big league" feel not playing on the same field every game.
3. Meet and interact with kids from different locations, possibly make new friends.
Yeah, I know they have to grow up some time, there is a good chance that they might not make their high school team. Does that mean that they should be limited in their ability to experience travel ball at ten, eleven, twelve...thirteen? Not in my opinion.
As long as there are more kids that want to play and dads willing to step up and coach, I say have at it. I wish every kid who loves the game of baseball could experience travel ball, no matter their athletic ability.
It seems to me that that is the purpose of Utrip's classifications and I would have to say that is one thing they got right. Or as right as possible.
Granted you would hope that the coaches would, at times seek out stronger competition in order to challenge the boys. But it is nice for there to be a system that would enable the kids to enter a tournament with teams of similar abilities. No kid enjoys going out and getting slaughtered every week.
If your kid is an elite player and plays on a major team you can play in a tournament almost any weekend with competition suited to your team, and never have to see a "watered down team". You know what though? I bet that the kids from the "watered down" team, at the "watered down" tournament, are having just as much fun as the "more deserving" players ,playing in the "real" travel ball tournament.
Sorry if I got a little off topic. |
|
|
|
mjones9226
81 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 13:52:59
|
| As far as playing up I agree 100%. They should just want to play, and the kids probably do. Keep in mind the end goal here. That being said if it is against a rule, then how can you allow it to happen? What other rules do you ignore? Not saying it is a good rule, but. Could JB athletics go through georgia usssa and have it relaxed through them? I understand both sides, but question why you would not want to play against a younger age group playing up. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Gausssa question
