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loganmill
144 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2011 : 08:10:00
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Great tournament this weekend. In pool play the Phillies
got to see how much work we have to do to play with
the big teams. We were glad to have the pool we were in.
On a second note glad to meet you gwinnett at tournament.
You guys have a great team and look forward to playing you
in the future. |
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 08:19:39
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Congrats to the Laurens Lightning and the Phillies!
Gwinnett, In a Triplecrown event, we are on the team that want to have the same equal opportunity to win or lose with out the so called labels of AAA and Major that force the TDs to protect and project the Major teams into the Gold Bracket. The question would be are the so called Major teams willing to SEEK out and win or lose against better teams in the pool play or do they only want the better competition in Bracket play? TC and the rest of directors need to run these tournaments with a blind draw each and every time. Maybe some teams will get more opportunities to get to the top not having to use as much pitching trying to get into the gold bracket similar to the controlled scenario for the so called final four "super Major" teams that the TD helps to crown from the get go. Draw the pools blind and just let the kids play and the chips will fall where they may.
One side note, regardless of the pool draws and the gold and silver brackets, Tony's Triplecrown Events are still the best run tournaments in the Georgia baseball marketplace.
[quote]Originally posted by Gwinnett
Eastcobbkreskin, are you on one of these teams? If you are- maybe you shouldn't play triple crown if you don't like the draws?? Its done this way every tournament....
If your not on one of these teams--how would you know if they didn't want to play these better teams? Some SEEK out better competition whether they win or loose.
Which kind of team are you on?
[quote]Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
Wow, ya all sound like some politicians trying to justify a bill that is going to help the poor in the long run so they need to start out at a disadvantage in order to not to get hurt later on in the process because you would feel sorry for them.
The E Pool was the toughest pool, hind sight would have swapped one of these teams into the F pool. I think the Sox and the Reds felt the rath of the "lets control who gets into the Gold Bracket" this weekend.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 09:01:11
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| Can't help but think this is a product of two different brackets......If you just let everyone play the best teams would rise to the top like they do 90% of the time, but the lower tier teams would get demolished 90% of the time. We have won the silver bracket once but I promise you finishing second in the gold bracket feels MUCH better...If you feel he is "crowning" the elite major teams you are wrong, it is a lose lose situation on both sides to have a top team in the silver bracket....The major team doesn't wanna be there and the AA/AAA teams they are beating probably don't want them there either. |
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gtown71
86 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:00:42
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just curious. who are you saying was "helped" to get into the gold bracket by being in pool e? the rays or the select team?quote:
Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
Wow, ya all sound like some politicians trying to justify a bill that is going to help the poor in the long run so they need to start out at a disadvantage in order to not to get hurt later on in the process because you would feel sorry for them.
The E Pool was the toughest pool, hind sight would have swapped one of these teams into the F pool. I think the Sox and the Reds felt the rath of the "lets control who gets into the Gold Bracket" this weekend.
quote:
Originally posted by BravesFan
quote:
Originally posted by doubleplay11
not all of the pools are as evenly balanced and will send some to the gold braket where others at this early stage of the game in the fall will end up in the silver. Too bad.
folks, tc pools have never been balanced and favor some of the stronger teams as its in the best interest of the tournament for them to make the gold bracket. by the same token you need to win one game and that will usually make it so you make the gold.
in other news it looks like the rays and titans have a game tomorrow so they will not meet in the ship. should be some good games tomorrow and watch out for laurens as they have the bats a popin this trip
quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
If pools were different you might have a major team slip into the silver bracket and run rule every team and win it all (in the silver bracket). That wouldn't be fair. I thought they did well with pool games to make a good split between gold & silver or should I say AAA and major. Makes it more fair for bracket play.
quote:
Originally posted by inthegap
Some very unbalanced pools in this one.
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:18:18
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Honestly, we would take it anyway they gave it to us! More challenging! What we don't like is beating a team into the ground. It doesn't help us or the other team..
Loganmill, congrats on your win! It was very nice to meet you as well!
quote:
Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
Congrats to the Laurens Lightning and the Phillies!
Gwinnett, In a Triplecrown event, we are on the team that want to have the same equal opportunity to win or lose with out the so called labels of AAA and Major that force the TDs to protect and project the Major teams into the Gold Bracket. The question would be are the so called Major teams willing to SEEK out and win or lose against better teams in the pool play or do they only want the better competition in Bracket play? TC and the rest of directors need to run these tournaments with a blind draw each and every time. Maybe some teams will get more opportunities to get to the top not having to use as much pitching trying to get into the gold bracket similar to the controlled scenario for the so called final four "super Major" teams that the TD helps to crown from the get go. Draw the pools blind and just let the kids play and the chips will fall where they may.
One side note, regardless of the pool draws and the gold and silver brackets, Tony's Triplecrown Events are still the best run tournaments in the Georgia baseball marketplace.
[quote]Originally posted by Gwinnett
Eastcobbkreskin, are you on one of these teams? If you are- maybe you shouldn't play triple crown if you don't like the draws?? Its done this way every tournament....
If your not on one of these teams--how would you know if they didn't want to play these better teams? Some SEEK out better competition whether they win or loose.
Which kind of team are you on?
[quote]Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
Wow, ya all sound like some politicians trying to justify a bill that is going to help the poor in the long run so they need to start out at a disadvantage in order to not to get hurt later on in the process because you would feel sorry for them.
The E Pool was the toughest pool, hind sight would have swapped one of these teams into the F pool. I think the Sox and the Reds felt the rath of the "lets control who gets into the Gold Bracket" this weekend.
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Edited by - Gwinnett on 10/24/2011 12:05:30 |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:42:15
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I think there is too much "Conspiracy Theory" going on about the pool seedings. Tony had 10 age groups, with over 150 teams, to manage and I doubt any team had any special requests like "Hey, we can't play on Friday night." 
I am sure he was more worried about getting the brackets worked up, making sure he had enough umpires coming, etc, to be worried about doing a lot of hard scrutiny over which teams he has in what pool. Heck, it's hard to keep up with 2 or 3 age groups of who is who, much less 10. Especially in the fall. Who has their full team? Who is playing with merged teams in fall because two teams have kids playing football? etc.
Everyone has a fair chance. Everyone plays the same number of pool games, using the same rules, for the same amount of gametime.
I guess what he could do is send out the list of teams to all the head coaches in that age group, and have them rank them. Then take them all, sum up the rankings and seed the pools from that. That would require two things:
1) A cutoff of the Sunday prior so the list can be sent out to the coaches and returned by EOD Monday so the pool games can be posted by Wed AM.
2) All coaches participate in the rankings
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 13:26:15
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I like the way TC sets the pool for their tournaments as opposed to usssa. The only team that should have a problem with it is a team that wins the silver bracket who may have thought they should have made the gold bracket. I mean if you cant win the silver bracket then you should not have been in the gold ! We used our pitching to go as far as we could. ( which showed in our last game.) We could have just as easily conserved pitching lost a game and more than likely won the silver bracket. I honestly believe that the top 12 teams that made the gold bracket were the top 12 teams at the tournament.The gold and silver brackets allow teams to play up and test the waters at the same time compete to win a tournament.
Congrats to the EC phillies... enjoyed playing you guys.
BTW- don't know if the select team is a permanent fixture but if they are then they are definitely a major team. |
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 13:50:19
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DR. OS, no conspiracy theory at all, TD builds the pools with local knowledge of team's status, wins, losses, and past tournament history. You can ask Tony, he will tell how he sets the pools. I think your idea on the rankings would help in the current scenario, however I am not sure that all of the coaches would rate from an altruistic point a view.
Gwinnett, the question is where is the line drawn on calling "what is beating a team into the ground"? Although there were some great close games this weekend in both the pool play and bracket play, there were still a few beat downs in the Gold Bracket: 22-3, 13-0, 8-0, 8-1 What happens to the seeding of the brackets if the above scores are posted in pool play? not reading into it a whole lot and all of these scores are relative to the particular game situation and are taken out of context for this point with no offense to the teams on the losing end.
Spart, most AAA teams would also rather play in the gold bracket and would like to have the same opportunity with no predetermined Pool advantage.
Gtown, it did not help either the Rays or Select other than they did not have to play one another, however, it actually hurt the Reds and Sox as playing Select Red and Rays are like playing in the final four of most tournaments and in order to get into the brackets they were using up some of their best pitching. Why does a team like the Reds and the Sox have to step it up, but the others get an advantage playing against AAA/AA teams for both of their games?
At the end of the day, why even play the pool play games if you know who is going to win? case in point, all the 2-0 teams in pool play from this past weekend. All 2-0 teams were pre seeded to play against AAA/AA teams and projected to win 2, pretty impressive that it worked out this way. Notice also in the last two Pools that the 2-0 teams did not play one another. I would argue that this was a great job of seeding the teams that you wanted into the Gold bracket, not saying that it is wrong but it is clearly an advantage for those teams.
If we all want better competition, then we all should embrace the competition during both the pool play and bracket play, but some are concerned their major team might have to step it up in pool play and have to fight it out to see who can advance to the bracket.
Have a Blind draw and have double elimination for all teams skipping the pool play that does not matter, one big bracket. You could have additional consolation games to be played to get your 3rd guaranteed game in.
Again Tony does a great job with TCS, no one is faulting Tony(TCS) here, just an observation that would make for some more competitive pool play evenings rather than the mundane same old already knowing who is going to make it except for a few of the 1-1 AAA teams. |
Edited by - eastcobbkreskin on 10/24/2011 16:42:19 |
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ONE WAY
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 14:35:43
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| Look at last year at (THE BATTLE OF THE SOUTH) when one time had the pool and the bracket set for them to win, but did they win NO they lost the 2nd bracket game to then a (AAA) team so if u come to play on any give day anybody can beat any body so just play the game and let the chips fall were they fall. My 2cents about the pool draw put all the teams in a hat and how it come out then that who you play and my the best team A AA AAA or MAJOR win and only have (GOLD BRACKETS) then no one can say it was set up like last year was and that team still did not win. |
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Gamer64
17 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 15:49:01
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| Well, who won the tournament. Who made it to final Four in the Gold Bracket???? |
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gtown71
86 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 19:02:02
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laurel lightning beat east cobb rays, select red beat the moccs. laurel beat select to win the ship.quote:
Originally posted by Gamer64
Well, who won the tournament. Who made it to final Four in the Gold Bracket????
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 19:45:13
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there is nothing wrong with the way tc runs their tournaments and I don't see what benefit there is for a so called AA team to make the gold bracket and get bounced in the 1st round. Most teams just need to win 1 game to make it to gold so it's not like you had to knock off the rays and select to make it. And like most realize, would having select in the silver bracket make it fun for any of the other teams in it?
When we were AA we loved the opportunity to play the major teams and it was a big thrill to knock one off when we could. Take on the challenge and go out and win a key game.. |
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bluecup
49 Posts |
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 09:01:11
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Pappi, I am not seeing your point unless you are calling the Sox, Reds, Jackhammers & Phillies AA teams. I am pretty certain they are AAA.
But never the less you are right the Reds and Sox had to win one game against the Select and Rays. So they could either sand bag, save pitching and go 0-2 or they could fight hard to win at least one game, possibly using their best pitching to do so, which would affect how deep they will go in either the Silver or Gold bracket. Now if the Rays or the Titans have to play Select or Laurens then they have to use up better pitching in order to keep the runs down and to win the game to help with better seeding and getting into the Gold. Depending on when they play the other pool game they may be 0-1 and realize they have to use up some more good pitching to make sure they get into the Gold bracket so, yes there is a clear advantage to not having to play one or more major teams in pool play.
Maybe the next TC tournament, the TD needs to put your team up against the Rays and Select and I bet you will have made a call to the TD before the Ink is dry on the pool sheets asking for a change. Come on now Pappi, you have never made a call to the TD complaining about pools, right? LOL
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
there is nothing wrong with the way tc runs their tournaments and I don't see what benefit there is for a so called AA team to make the gold bracket and get bounced in the 1st round. Most teams just need to win 1 game to make it to gold so it's not like you had to knock off the rays and select to make it. And like most realize, would having select in the silver bracket make it fun for any of the other teams in it?
When we were AA we loved the opportunity to play the major teams and it was a big thrill to knock one off when we could. Take on the challenge and go out and win a key game..
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loganmill
144 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 10:20:42
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As for the Phillies we were in a tough pool which included
Home plate, Middle Ga Moccs and Phillies. We love the competition
against those teams. When the Moccs went 2-0 that left us to make
a decision on pitching. I know we threw a great pitcher and so did
home plate. They just got the better of us. I am sure home plate would
of liked to save the kid they pitched for bracket play.
If anyone had a tough pool it was ours. I think it caused the
two teams that made the gold to burn more pitching.
As for our team we are deep with good pitchers which helped
us win the silver bracket.
I feel pretty sure if we would of had a different
pool schedule ( like others) we would of made the gold. I
think our wins in silver showed ( scored 28 gave up 2 runs in 3 games)
we belonged in the gold.
Im sure Tony does his best and it is just fall. With rosters
not being set in stone its hard to determine were anybody
stands.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 10:25:31
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| I hope that many people don't have a problem with playing good teams.....Play who you are scheduled...I would rather have Tony decide who plays who than let the team running the tourney decide....That happened twice last year where 5 of the 6-7 best teams were on one side of the bracket..It is hard for the AA/AAA teams to do it but I think every team should play EVERY single game to win....You can control your own destiny that way, and its fall it shouldn't be too difficult to find a pitcher for one or two games. |
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ONE WAY
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 10:56:54
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| It would be great if all tournaments would just put the names in a hat with the head coaches present and pull and that's who you will play in pool play an then make only a Gold Bracket. Then let the chips fall were they fall then no team can say that got a bad pool draw then if major plays major so be it. Then the team with the most pitching will come out on top because you will not be able to save it if you have a tough draw. Then all teams will get a chance even if they are AA AAA MAJOR |
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 11:19:37
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kreskin, no I have never called a TD to complain about pool games and I have never seen most of the teams you mentioned above play so I have no idea if they are major or AA but why does that matter? TC does play so called top teams vs each other in pool so it has happened.
Just go out and play the teams your matched up with and lets stop the complaining about it, if a team has to burn pitching to make it to gold then you need to do so. And btw, I doubt these teams are looking at trying to finish and determine their seeding. |
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ONE WAY
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 12:52:08
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| S/4 I remember that tournament from last yr were all the top teams but 1 were in the same bracket. That 1 team still did not win the tournament so every body just go out and play who they put in front of u. I would rather play major team in pool game to have the chance to put them in the silver bracket or a lower seed so it will make it easy for me to win if their are less major teams to face |
Edited by - ONE WAY on 10/25/2011 22:44:41 |
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 17:25:58
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Pappi, we were talking about this TC event and no one but you you referred to these teams as AA teams and that they would not benefit in your words "I don't see what benefit there is for a so called AA team to make the gold bracket and get bounced in the 1st round" specifically the discussion was about some of the teams that had a lot tougher pool draws than most of the other teams. All of these teams are making pitching decisions in order to get better seeding and possibly get a bye and save even more on pitching. Seems to me that you like the TC events because they offer you an advantage as a so called "major". If you really believed in your own statement "Just go out and play the teams your matched up with and lets stop the complaining about it, if a team has to burn pitching to make it to gold then you need to do so." then you would not mind a blind draw at these tournaments.
Spartan, controlling your own destiny is one thing, winning because you start out with an unfair advantage is not really winning under your own control, whether you want to admit it or not you have been helped to your win by a controlled pool draw to provide you with an easier avenue to the gold bracket.
Is is more about what is right and fair with these tournaments rather than complaining. Equal the playing field for all teams by drawing the pools blind. I can't believe the "major teams" would boycott these tournaments because they have to play tougher pool games now would they?
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
there is nothing wrong with the way tc runs their tournaments and I don't see what benefit there is for a so called AA team to make the gold bracket and get bounced in the 1st round. Most teams just need to win 1 game to make it to gold so it's not like you had to knock off the rays and select to make it. And like most realize, would having select in the silver bracket make it fun for any of the other teams in it?
When we were AA we loved the opportunity to play the major teams and it was a big thrill to knock one off when we could. Take on the challenge and go out and win a key game..
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
kreskin, no I have never called a TD to complain about pool games and I have never seen most of the teams you mentioned above play so I have no idea if they are major or AA but why does that matter? TC does play so called top teams vs each other in pool so it has happened.
Just go out and play the teams your matched up with and lets stop the complaining about it, if a team has to burn pitching to make it to gold then you need to do so. And btw, I doubt these teams are looking at trying to finish and determine their seeding.
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Bullpen@
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 23:13:49
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This is priceless. Now a major team is saying it would not be fair to the AAA. Funny thing is I don't see any AAA teams complaining about getting run ruled. If they were so worried about that then why would they even enter the tournaments. I am sure you are looking out for everyones best interest, especially the majors who might "slip" and not win the silver. It has as much chance of happening though as a playoff in college football. quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
If pools were different you might have a major team slip into the silver bracket and run rule every team and win it all (in the silver bracket). That wouldn't be fair. I thought they did well with pool games to make a good split between gold & silver or should I say AAA and major. Makes it more fair for bracket play.
quote:
Originally posted by inthegap
Some very unbalanced pools in this one.
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 23:44:45
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quote:
Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
Pappi, we were talking about this TC event and no one but you you referred to these teams as AA teams and that they would not benefit in your words "I don't see what benefit there is for a so called AA team to make the gold bracket and get bounced in the 1st round" specifically the discussion was about some of the teams that had a lot tougher pool draws than most of the other teams. All of these teams are making pitching decisions in order to get better seeding and possibly get a bye and save even more on pitching. Seems to me that you like the TC events because they offer you an advantage as a so called "major". If you really believed in your own statement "Just go out and play the teams your matched up with and lets stop the complaining about it, if a team has to burn pitching to make it to gold then you need to do so." then you would not mind a blind draw at these tournaments.
Kreskin,
Nowhere in my post did I refer to any of the teams you mentioned as AA, read it and you will see that its not ture. I love the fact that you get majors, AAA & AA teams all mixed in together in TC tourneys as from time to time you get some great games and some upsets between teams you would of thought.
As far as the teams setting up pitching to place higher in seeding you couldn't be further from the truth. Look st some of the better teams from last weekend and see who they pitched in pool games. Most of the teams you feel have an advantage use kids that usually don't see the mound on Sundays while other teams are trying their best for an upset and using their top kids for a few innings to see if they will be in it. As far as a blind draw, bring it on cause I doubt stronger teams look forward to playing teams classified in a lower division like you say its set up by TC.
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 10:29:34
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Bullpen, I certainly have NO control over ANY tournament. I don't like a lot things about how certain tournament organazations run there tournaments, however, I don't start whining about them on this forum. I except the way they are and look at them as challenges. Could care less if we get ALL "major" pool & bracket! If people don't like it don't play TC its that SIMPLE!
quote:
Originally posted by Bullpen@
This is priceless. Now a major team is saying it would not be fair to the AAA. Funny thing is I don't see any AAA teams complaining about getting run ruled. If they were so worried about that then why would they even enter the tournaments. I am sure you are looking out for everyones best interest, especially the majors who might "slip" and not win the silver. It has as much chance of happening though as a playoff in college football. quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
If pools were different you might have a major team slip into the silver bracket and run rule every team and win it all (in the silver bracket). That wouldn't be fair. I thought they did well with pool games to make a good split between gold & silver or should I say AAA and major. Makes it more fair for bracket play.
quote:
Originally posted by inthegap
Some very unbalanced pools in this one.
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Bullpen@
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 11:39:12
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Never said you had control but was commentating on your community organizer position of fairness and protecting the weak from being run ruled on a sunday bracket game instead of pool game. Tournaments can run any way they want and sure when someone enters they know what they are getting. For the people that benefit from the stacked seedings to justify, as it's done in the AA-AAA's best interest, is just rediculous. quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
Bullpen, I certainly have NO control over ANY tournament. I don't like a lot things about how certain tournament organazations run there tournaments, however, I don't start whining about them on this forum. I except the way they are and look at them as challenges. Could care less if we get ALL "major" pool & bracket! If people don't like it don't play TC its that SIMPLE!
quote:
Originally posted by Bullpen@
This is priceless. Now a major team is saying it would not be fair to the AAA. Funny thing is I don't see any AAA teams complaining about getting run ruled. If they were so worried about that then why would they even enter the tournaments. I am sure you are looking out for everyones best interest, especially the majors who might "slip" and not win the silver. It has as much chance of happening though as a playoff in college football. quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
If pools were different you might have a major team slip into the silver bracket and run rule every team and win it all (in the silver bracket). That wouldn't be fair. I thought they did well with pool games to make a good split between gold & silver or should I say AAA and major. Makes it more fair for bracket play.
quote:
Originally posted by inthegap
Some very unbalanced pools in this one.
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Bullpen@
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 11:54:25
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| So gwinnett is up for blind seeding. Let's see how many other majors step up and agree to a even draw. Come on let the chips fall and everyone push for it at least one time. Maybe it will put this issue to bed. I would love to see how many teams entered and how it would play out. If nobody objects then speak up in favor. |
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