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gatraveler
58 Posts |
 Posted - 03/28/2011 : 12:00:53
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| Why do tournaments keep your entire entry fee after two games? A three-game minimum should be just that, three games. Paying $450 for two games is outrageous. If you rented 6 hours at ATPP and hired umps for a 3 team round-robin, each team would would get two games for a total of $220. I think the future will be more teams playing in the NWBA league with multiple divisions. Would be less expensive, seems to me. Rainout policy needs adjusting, IMO. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2011 : 15:47:31
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| First of all, that's not true at ATPP. There is a different price for holding scrimmage games there compared to practice. If you compare that cost, it's not that much different then playing in a 3 game tournament. |
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itsbaseballtime
348 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2011 : 19:25:08
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Tae281, Any team that plays 2 games gets no refund. That has been the policy for every tournament that my kids have played in for the last 6 years.
Great job under difficult circumstances. |
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gatraveler
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2011 : 21:40:14
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quote:
Originally posted by itsbaseballtime
Tae281, Any team that plays 2 games gets no refund. That has been the policy for every tournament that my kids have played in for the last 6 years.
Great job under difficult circumstances.
I'm not talking about one tournament in particular. And I know what the refund policy is, and has been. I just don't think it's fair. My son's team paid $275 for one game in the Slugfest. Any way you slice it, that's too much. Just sayin'... |
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 08:48:49
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Nobody wins in a rained out weekend, the kids lose because they don't get to play and enjoy this great game, parents lose because they don't get to see their kids play and the tournaments lose because most of their expenses are up front and it's a lost weekend.
Funny story, I was talking to a former major league player that has a grandson playing travel ball and he brought up a great point regarding rain outs. If you went to a Braves game and it got rained out in the bottom of the 5th with the Braves winning, would you get a refund? The park's expenses are about the same weather the game went 5 or 9 innings, I thought that was a great analogy. |
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Catch3dad
90 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 18:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
Nobody wins in a rained out weekend, the kids lose because they don't get to play and enjoy this great game, parents lose because they don't get to see their kids play and the tournaments lose because most of their expenses are up front and it's a lost weekend.
Funny story, I was talking to a former major league player that has a grandson playing travel ball and he brought up a great point regarding rain outs. If you went to a Braves game and it got rained out in the bottom of the 5th with the Braves winning, would you get a refund? The park's expenses are about the same weather the game went 5 or 9 innings, I thought that was a great analogy.
Not sure I agree with the analogy. Apples to oranges IMO.
One issue I have with refund policies is the term "X game guarantee or minimum games played". Why use the term if there really is no guarantee or control over the number of games a team plays? If the event has 2 pool games and then single elimination brackets start why not simply state that?
Also as far as gate fees are concerned, they should be completely refundable.
If the team's game is cancelled for the day over an hour before game time, they shouldn't have to pay that days gate fee. When the fees are charged up front, they are really nothing more than a way for the hosting team or association to make money. Do it the old fashion way. Put a card table and chair at the park entrance and collect a buck or 2 from each person. If I show up. you get my money. If the weather is iffy and I don't show up but events charge a gate fee, they get my money away. Not right.
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Edited by - Catch3dad on 03/30/2011 19:16:34 |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 20:07:30
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| Alot of factors that aren't even mentioned in the analogy that make the two entirely different. Completely apples and oranges. |
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Enine
66 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 23:10:12
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Refund policies are clearly stated for all tournaments. Everyone who has any experience with travel ball understands the risks involved with the weather. No one is forcing you to sign up for a tournament. Let's see how you deal with running a tournament when the weather turns for the worse.
No one wins when the weather turns bad. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:39:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
If you went to a Braves game and it got rained out in the bottom of the 5th with the Braves winning, would you get a refund? The park's expenses are about the same weather the game went 5 or 9 innings, I thought that was a great analogy.
The biggest difference is while the park fees for renting the fields may be the same regardless of games played, all other expenses are not. - the ticket taker, umpires, concession stand, etc don't get paid. A 3 age group, 30 team tournament takes in some $12k - field rentals are not that much..
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 10:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Catch3dad
quote:
Originally posted by ecbpappi
Not sure I agree with the analogy. Apples to oranges IMO.
One issue I have with refund policies is the term "X game guarantee or minimum games played". Why use the term if there really is no guarantee or control over the number of games a team plays? If the event has 2 pool games and then single elimination brackets start why not simply state that?
Also as far as gate fees are concerned, they should be completely refundable.
If the team's game is cancelled for the day over an hour before game time, they shouldn't have to pay that days gate fee. When the fees are charged up front, they are really nothing more than a way for the hosting team or association to make money. Do it the old fashion way. Put a card table and chair at the park entrance and collect a buck or 2 from each person. If I show up. you get my money. If the weather is iffy and I don't show up but events charge a gate fee, they get my money away. Not right.
If it hadn't rained, wouldn't these teams have played 3 games like it was suppose to be? All tournaments are typically 3 game mins but you can't control the rain so if the policy is no refund after two games then it is what it is.
As far as the gate fees, I hate playing a gate fee to not only have the game rained out before a game is played. The problem might be trying to figure out who is entitled to $5 back, you'd have to know what parents are with what teams that didn't play. |
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gatraveler
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:38:50
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quote:
If it hadn't rained, wouldn't these teams have played 3 games like it was suppose to be? All tournaments are typically 3 game mins but you can't control the rain so if the policy is no refund after two games then it is what it is.
My point is that maybe the policy needs to be changed. If you look at last weekends tourney at ECB, someone collected $7125 in entry fees and umpire fees were probably around $1900. I'd love for someone in the know to tell me what field costs were. |
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 14:01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by gatraveler
quote:
If it hadn't rained, wouldn't these teams have played 3 games like it was suppose to be? All tournaments are typically 3 game mins but you can't control the rain so if the policy is no refund after two games then it is what it is.
My point is that maybe the policy needs to be changed. If you look at last weekends tourney at ECB, someone collected $7125 in entry fees and umpire fees were probably around $1900. I'd love for someone in the know to tell me what field costs were.
Unless it's a county park, most of these funds needed for park upkeep come from tournaments, player fees and other ways to raise money. You cannot just subtract the cost of umpires from the entry fees and wonder why a team can't get back $100. If you knew the amount of money spent each season just on new dirt and seed, you'd fall out of your chair. Also, I was told the cost of running lights at a ball park can be very expensive for even a few hours, they also need to pay for grounds crews and field dry. |
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Dirtbags
11 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 16:27:55
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| We dont play a lot of Nations Baseball, but last weekend we played 2 games on Saturday and was told that we would have half of our money credited back to us because of the rain out on Sunday. If they can do that, everyone else should be able to that also. Its a pain in the butt to run these tournaments, but trust me, they make a good penny doing it. |
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bball-fan
89 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 21:40:41
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| Lower the entry fee of tournaments ($400+ for an early season tournament?) to a more reasonable fee and the teams won't be as anxious about refunds. Everyone's budget is tight right now, and it seems as though the entrys are getting higher each season. |
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field6
72 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 09:08:57
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| Travel ball is expensive. We all know this going in. If you have 12 kids divide by lets say 450. That equals around 37 bucks. Now how many rainouts happen? Maybe one or two a year? Probably average. Now how many of us spend 37 bucks for a bad meal a year? Probably more than we have rainouts. It is what it is and have no problems with rainouts except it ends up being a bored weekend with no ball. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 09:31:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dirtbags
We dont play a lot of Nations Baseball, but last weekend we played 2 games on Saturday and was told that we would have half of our money credited back to us because of the rain out on Sunday. If they can do that, everyone else should be able to that also. Its a pain in the butt to run these tournaments, but trust me, they make a good penny doing it.
Unfortunately not everyone is like Don, and it's good to see he extends that to all teams, not just the teams that play his tournaments week in and out - Don Mason with Nations does a good job getting fields shape to play regardless of weather, and is fair in that aspect - if he can't teams to the guarantee game, he will credit you back.
That to me is one of the customer service aspects that is lacking with other tournament directors around the country. I don't know how many other 2 game full fee tournaments we've played with other associations/tournament directors.
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Edited by - ramman999 on 04/01/2011 09:48:33 |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 09:57:05
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| Guys, it's really simple. You all have choices in tournaments you enter, if you all prefer Nations policy then play nations as much as possible but let's stop the whining about whether or not you really got your 3 games in the the event of a rain out. |
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Dirtbags
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 10:30:25
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| BravesFan I dont think anyone on here is really whining, just expressing their opinions or views on this subject, it is a discussion forum? We play USSSA most of the time, but it was a nice gesture for Nations to rufund half of our money, we did not really expect it, we know what the rules are, we have played a few tournaments in our history.. |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 11:24:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dirtbags
BravesFan I dont think anyone on here is really whining, just expressing their opinions or views on this subject, it is a discussion forum? We play USSSA most of the time, but it was a nice gesture for Nations to rufund half of our money, we did not really expect it, we know what the rules are, we have played a few tournaments in our history..
Dirtbag, have you read the posts? Seems like a lot of whining to me, an opinion is I think they should lengthen the games or change pitching rules. Complaining that you didn't get 3 games when a tournament got rained out is what then??
Rain outs happen every year and its the same story, let's focus on the tournaments that being played and will be played. Like someone else said, it happens maybe twice a year so let's move on. |
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Dirtbags
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:23:52
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But its okay to whine or give your opinion on the Super Nit charging $10.00 for a pass. That only happens 2 to 3 times a year too. I really dont care about rainouts, but I think gatraveler has the right to express his opinions on here without someone calling him or me a whiner. I am moving on Bravesfan, hope your season goes well..
Tim Bailey
12U Dirtbags NC |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:29:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dirtbags
But its okay to whine or give your opinion on the Super Nit charging $10.00 for a pass. That only happens 2 to 3 times a year too. I really dont care about rainouts, but I think gatraveler has the right to express his opinions on here without someone calling him or me a whiner. I am moving on Bravesfan, hope your season goes well..
Tim Bailey
12U Dirtbags NC
Don't know anything about the Super NIT and their gate passes and like I said, it's a choice. If you don't like the Super NIT and their fees then don't play. This wasn't directed at gatraveler, some others are whining any way you cut it. And by the way, our season is going just "peachy"
Bravesfan out! |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:31:11
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field6- I understand what you're trying to say. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you spoke to the manager about that bad meal, that he or she would compensate you in some way with a free desert or even a refund. The bottom line in your reference is that you actually got your meal, it just wasn't up to par for the $37 you paid. When you play in a tournament that was poorly ran or countless things went wrong, you still got to play so nobody really expects a refund there. But when you pay for something you didn't get it's different, which is what I think most here are upset about. Not the same as your $37 meal comparison unless they left your two sides off and still wanted you to pay $37. We may be talking about a $400+ tournament versus a $37 meal but business is business, it comes down to customer service and whether they got what they paid for. For the record, I'm not whining.  Sunny for this weekend. |
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field6
72 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:48:12
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| Agree this is a forum and opinions need to vary. Its why I like this website. Call someone a whiner in this forum was a low blow and I for one enjoy reading everyone's post whether I agree or disagree. Good day everyone. Lets keep agreeing to disagree. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 13:46:26
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| That's what I love about this site NO one has to agree with anyone! Believe what you want----Its all GOOD! |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2011 : 11:00:05
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| Play in the NWBA league and you won't have theses issues. Put $50 a player towards some nice trophies and enjoy the game for what it is. Tournaments at this age are silly. Tournaments are really designed to assist the 14-18 YR old and higher get exposure to scouts etc. In the past they were a way to get good talent together and then pitch that to the scouts. Scouts hate travelling all over the place, and if you have a central tournament, then they are more likely to come. |
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oparrowsbaseball
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2011 : 12:28:19
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I got this email today from ATTP. A lot of complaints posted about the refund policies due to the weather the weekend before spring break but I thought this was excellent. Slap on the back to all those involved at ATTP.
Teams,
I was able to clear the fields at ATPP Monday May 9 and Tuesday May 10 to
complete the 11u Slugout Tournament if you guys are interested. This is 4 weeks
away so hopefully it gives everyone enough time to plan if interested. Sorry but
these are the only days I could clear so hopefully it works for all.
Let me know if your team wants to complete what we started. |
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