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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2011 : 23:43:39
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We played in a small tournamanet this weekend, and ended up playing the same team twice during bracket play today, plus a one inning shot out.
Everytime my son came up to bat, against this team, he was intentionally walked. Every other team pitched to him. But for some reason, this team simply refused to pitch to him. That meant that after our first game today, my son never even got a chance to swing the bat. And we were at the park for 12 hours hours today. Sure, he is a big strong boy. But both our team and the oppossing team had kids that went yard today. At one point we were even down by 10 runs with no one on base, and he was stilled walked.
I realize that those are the rules, and the coach was doing what he felt he needed to do to win the games, but come on, walking an 11 year old every at bat for the entire day?
I just had to vent :-)
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Edited by - DecaturDad on 04/17/2011 23:44:34 |
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slide_home
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 11:21:04
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I can understand your frustration. Sometimes "winning" means "learn nothing".
On the surface, the other coach's decision might make sense if winning is the only goal. But, the coach missed the opportunity to have his pitchers challenge your son and possibly "win the battle". His pitcher's learned nothing other than that they aren't good enough against your son.
Depending on the situation, an intentional walk is justified, but not at every at bat. These boys have to learn how to pitch against good batters otherwise, they learn nothing.
If your son is that domninant and you notice this happening a lot, you might consider playing him up. I am sure this wouldn't happen with older, bigger kids. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 11:43:34
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Thanks Slide home,
You are right. The pitchers never got the chance to challenge him. (And yes, I have seen him strike out.) And he never had the chance to see good pitching. This team did have some great pitchers.
I actually tried moving him up for the spring. However, he has played with the same group of kids since he was seven. As he puts it; "These are my friends. I want to have fun. Playing with them is fun."
By the way, every other team we have played this season has pitched to him. :-)
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 12:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by slide_home
.....you might consider playing him up. I am sure this wouldn't happen with older, bigger kids.
LOL!! I happen know DD's son. He IS playing up. It was a 12U tournament and his son is 11.
--T
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vipers5
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 12:26:53
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Apparently, the team (considered a top tier 11UAAA team), was concerned about their players' safety. These walks were not done for strategic purposes at all. He was walked when he led off an inning, etc.--the intentional walks were not dependent on the situation whatsoever. In fact, it came back to haunt them because his intentional walk ended up being the winning run in the shootout.
DecaturDad's son has played on my son's team for 4 years and has always been a big kid. This had never happened before. Other teams have consistently pitched to him...in fact, prior to this weekend, he hadn't hit a home run this season.
I overheard players on the team in question telling others that their coaches said he was 14 years old, and told them that he had never been on our USSSA roster before and was picked up solely for this tournament (when in fact he's been playing on my son's team since he was 7 years old). I also heard that this team's coaches asked our coaches not to play Decatur Dad's son against them, because he was too big and their kids and parents were afraid they would get injured.
It's too bad, because, as a spectator, the team we played had a very nice group of coaches, parents and kids. I truly think the coaches involved were concerned about their players' safety, the walks were not done to be spiteful. I don't think it caused any bad blood between the teams--it was just an odd situation.
However, as a travel baseball team, I'm confident that our coaches would never ask another team's coaches not to play a player who is on their roster legally or walk a player EVERY TIME UP because our kids were scared. We've played against many players who are huge...bigger than DecaturDad's son (several players on our team have played up, and played against 12U majors players, and even played against 10U kids who were 6' and could kill the ball).
But to each his own... I can't blame parents or coaches for wanting to protect their kids. On the flip side, it's a shame that an 11 year old player who had to endure 1.5 hour drive to play baseball couldn't even get to swing a bat against a very solid 11U AAA team (and his parents, who drove all that way to watch him, had to instead watch him trot to first base every at bat for 2 straight games).
Decatur Dad's kid just wants to be an 11 year old boy and play on a team with his friends, as he's done for the past 4 years--it's not his fault he's grown 6" and 60 lbs in the past few months. It shouldn't dictate the friends he has or who he has to play baseball with. And, at some point, a big part of travel baseball is about overcoming fear and intimidation. |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 12:40:12
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quote:
Originally posted by coachtony
quote:
Originally posted by slide_home
.....you might consider playing him up. I am sure this wouldn't happen with older, bigger kids.
LOL!! I happen know DD's son. He IS playing up. It was a 12U tournament and his son is 11.
--T
Oops. I didnt see the 11U team playing anywhere this weekend and I saw the 12U team was playing in Lagrange so I figured he was playing there. Guess I should keep my mouth shut about things I know nothing about, huh? ;)
Carry on....
--T
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 13:32:25
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Is the batter in question here, one of those "birthdate" kids that plays down since the birthdate change? I can understand parents being concerned. Some of the kids are in a grade ahead, playing with smaller kids. The school cutoff is September 1st and baseball should line up the sameway just as many other sports do.
Now there are some kids that are just big early. At 11U, most of the kids are still small. I would be concerned if my child had to play against a kid with the size and strength of a child 3 or 4 years older. I've seen too many accidents. And it only takes a blink of an eye to change the course of a child's life. Not worth it. |
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slide_home
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 14:13:36
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Sounds like lack of communication. I am sure that if the coaches concerns were truly safety, they would have communicated that to DecaturDad's coaches. I doubt that is any consolation ot DDad but it is an explanation.
My question is, since this has never happened before, why hasn't any other coach considered this a safety issue and therefore intentially walked him each time? Was this a legit excuse or were these coaches the only ones to consider the safety?
By the way, we have all seen some normal size kids hit the ball much harder than these larger kids. If safety is the issue, size should not be the only consideration. |
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bturner
231 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 14:48:29
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DD
You know I know that team pretty well. They made a decision that no matter what dont let the big boy hit one. Saftey and all that was not the real reason. It makes for a bad day for big #12.
We have a kid (Yea the same one that hit one aginst you guys) that hit 8 hr this weekend. He had 18 at bats ( 8 hr, 6 intentional walks, 2 hits and 2 put outs.)When the game wasnt on the line or not in question he go pitched to. When it made a difference he got walked. IMHO that is the right way to handle it.
Bring big #12 to HP and we will put them back to back and let teams deal with it. JK talk to you soon DD |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:36:32
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One of the coaches did say it was a safety concern. But there were at least seven kids between these two teams that cleared the fence on Sunday. If any of those boys had hit an infielder, it could have been bad. I would never want to see anyone hurt. But where do you draw the line? I was reading about some 12 year olds who hit 300 feet this weekend. Why is it safe at 12, but not 11?
And just so no one thinks I am not being completely open. My son is an older and very big/strong 11 year old.
quote:
Originally posted by slide_home
Sounds like lack of communication. I am sure that if the coaches concerns were truly safety, they would have communicated that to DecaturDad's coaches. I doubt that is any consolation ot DDad but it is an explanation.
My question is, since this has never happened before, why hasn't any other coach considered this a safety issue and therefore intentially walked him each time? Was this a legit excuse or were these coaches the only ones to consider the safety?
By the way, we have all seen some normal size kids hit the ball much harder than these larger kids. If safety is the issue, size should not be the only consideration.
Tony,
We decided the 12U team was not a very good fit, and came back home :-)
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Edited by - DecaturDad on 04/18/2011 15:42:04 |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:40:53
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Bo,
I know you would have pitched to him. You have in the past. As with your big hitter, getting walked when stratigicly needed is something we have come to expect. Simply being afraid to play the game you came to play is another.
quote:
Originally posted by bturner
DD
You know I know that team pretty well. They made a decision that no matter what dont let the big boy hit one. Saftey and all that was not the real reason. It makes for a bad day for big #12.
We have a kid (Yea the same one that hit one aginst you guys) that hit 8 hr this weekend. He had 18 at bats ( 8 hr, 6 intentional walks, 2 hits and 2 put outs.)When the game wasnt on the line or not in question he go pitched to. When it made a difference he got walked. IMHO that is the right way to handle it.
Bring big #12 to HP and we will put them back to back and let teams deal with it. JK talk to you soon DD
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vipers5
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 16:03:45
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In fairness to our team, as DecaturDad said, we had a good hitting tournament--our #3 and #6 hitters had 2 home runs, and our #5 hitter hit a long home run, after one of those walks, so he had plenty of protection. It didn't seem like it was a game strategy at all, because the run scored nearly every time.
I have to take them at their word that they were concerned for their players, it's the only thing that makes sense--and they did it even though it cost them games. It certainly is a first for our team to have to deal with. Our thought has always been that if you're going to play travel ball, playing against big hitters and hard throwing pitchers comes with the territory. But if coaches or parents are legitimately concerned for safety, it's their choice too (we all have to protect our kids).
No doubt that DecaturDad's son hits the ball very hard--he's not just a random big kid. I also know that Bo's team pitched to him, as have others through the years, and did just fine...and our team pitched to Bo's big hitter (Bo, I don't believe he went yard against us). |
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gloveman
40 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 17:03:28
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| This is a tough one. In the Championship game this weekend Home Plate had a player hit 3 homeruns against us. 2 solos and a 3 run jack. I never thought about walking him. Thought about pitching around making him chase stuff but not walking him. I want our pitchers to learn how to get outs. The best pitchers make pitches to get the best hitters out. You miss your spots as a pitcher and you will get crushed. 2 of our guys learned that lesson well. Location location location will keep the ball in the park. I will be honest though, if runners were on I would not have let him have a chance to tie the game or win the game with one swing. We would have bounced 4 pitches in the dirt in front of the plate. Pitch to the kids when you can.... They all need the extra swings... |
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bball-fan
89 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 17:19:31
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| At this age/level, if you're too scared to field a ball from someone the same age , you shouldn't be out there. So, just because DD's son is big for his age (and not the only one in this age group that size) he should never be pitched to? Not fair for him at all. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 17:46:01
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| This is just an opinion from someone who isn't involved, but I would want my nephew to challenge this big boy...One of our close friends has a son who gets the old intentional walk all the time, it is no doubt frustrating but it is just a part of it. Having said that I wouldn't allow my nephew to play for a coach who would use safety as an excuse!! Safety is important but this wasn't the primary concern, I have called for an IBB and asked a coach in the past but this was in a big situation not every at bat!! Just a fear of letting the big boy hit one out, safety is just an excuse to justify it. |
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 23:24:48
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So...this batter is an "older" 11U.
Most 11U kids are 5th grade and under 5 feet, maybe 70-75 lbs. This one is 6 feet tall and weighs how much?
Just saying....
12u wasn't right, but wants to dominate in 11u????
I could understand a coach wanting to protect his kids. It's like putting a 5th grader up against a varsity player. |
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Lager2
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2011 : 23:43:05
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| Please let me chime in here. This is FREAKING travel baseball..... These are the best of the best. I know exactly who this kid is, we have played against the Decatur Vipers and let me say he is not even the biggest kid out there at 11U. Take a look at the kid from the Sandy Plains team, he's over six feet tall, I don't know his name nor would I mention it if I did but the kid is HUGE. Take a look at the Home Plate Turner kid (He's huge). Go to any multi State tourney (Cooperstown, Omaha) etc... and you will see many kids this size, its not that unusual, really!! Here is my take: 11U is the age when kids start separating themselves size wise from each other, 11 through 14U you are going to have some HUGE size differences and the kids that are going to be 6'6" to 6'10" etc... are going to be this freakishly big at 11U and they are going to be playing against kids that are A LOT smaller. The fact is this kid is big but so what!!!!! I don't want anyone to get hurt but I know some tiny little 11U players that will take your head off with a line drive so don't get so caught up in how big a kid is there are plenty of kids that can knock the cover off the ball. If you are scared of the ball at 11U then baseball is probably not the sport for you. You can always find a good rec league and get on one of their teams where its a lot more laid back. If you think the kid is too old then ask USSSA for his birth certificate and make them prove it. If they prove his age which in this case I think they would (He's been with that team for a long time now to my recollection) then either play ball and pitch to the kid or quit playing travel ball. All your doing is telling your kids to be scared and telling them that they are not good enough to get him out. Play ball please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 09:48:25
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Don't know the kid. Never seen him. Not sure what grade he is in. I am sure his birth certificate allows him to play 11u.
Don't know if the coach and team were scared.... These are kids. Most are normal sized. If the coach for whatever reason didn't want to pitch to a child because of a vast size difference, then so what. He doesn't have to. That is part of being a coach. Living with the decisions you make. Sometime they are good ones, sometimes not. They are human. From what I am reading the kid is 6 feet, and it was to the team's detriment. Maybe he just decided he couldn't live with the consequences of if there was an accident. I don't think he was teaching his players to be afraid. They evalutated the situation and made a decision.
For those that say go play rec ball. It isn't about that. Can't even believe you would go there. For what ever reason, they weren't comfortable. Sometimes you just don't do what everyone else is doing just because they are all doing it. Atleast, that is what I teach my kids.
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:01:55
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My son 4'8 90lbs has pitched against Bo's batter and also some other big kids and has always taken it as a challenge. If you dont have confidence in your pitcher, he will never have confidence in himself. Teach him to try to keep a batter off balance and hit the corners. If he accidentally throws one right down the middle, he will probably remember it next time. Thats how we learn.
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:08:59
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I agree with you Lager2, I've seen this kid too and like most kids when he hits it goes. If this team was truly an upper tier AAA team then they need to get a grip, I'd be more worried about these hot bats then a tall kid regarding safety.
Last I heard was the Sandy Plains kid was 6' 2" and growing by the day, I wonder how many of these big boys are shaving??? |
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biggin
174 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:21:55
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| Ok I couldn't wait any longer. As someone real close to all the coaches on team that did this. First point that needs to be made is they were playin in camsports tournement age cutoff date is jan 1st. So were playin against some 12yr olds anyway. 2nd knowing all the kids on that team and parents I would be shocked to hear anyone say they were scared of him hittin ball. I no none of those kids is ball shy.why head coach decided not to ever pitch to him I have no clue only he truly knows the answer. I have no problem walking a kid for strategy reasons. We walked big kid from homeplate this weekend 1 time and pitched to him twice. Big deal he hit 1 out no harm done we should have made a better pitch. We also played in 12_ tourney this year 1 of the kids from hp fradey is huge never once the thought of walkin someone because scared. On a side note don't u think at 11yr old tick tock boom kinda silly imho. Bottom line is this if u make good pitches you don't have to worry about it. If u make good pitch kid hits it out tip your cap and move on. |
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ecbpappi
244 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:30:01
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quote:
Originally posted by doubleplay11
Don't know the kid. Never seen him. Not sure what grade he is in. I am sure his birth certificate allows him to play 11u.
Don't know if the coach and team were scared.... These are kids. Most are normal sized. If the coach for whatever reason didn't want to pitch to a child because of a vast size difference, then so what. He doesn't have to. That is part of being a coach. Living with the decisions you make. Sometime they are good ones, sometimes not. They are human. From what I am reading the kid is 6 feet, and it was to the team's detriment. Maybe he just decided he couldn't live with the consequences of if there was an accident. I don't think he was teaching his players to be afraid. They evalutated the situation and made a decision.
For those that say go play rec ball. It isn't about that. Can't even believe you would go there. For what ever reason, they weren't comfortable. Sometimes you just don't do what everyone else is doing just because they are all doing it. Atleast, that is what I teach my kids.
Hogwash, I bet their are at least a half dozen 11 yr old kids in the area that are close to 6 foot or taller. Their are plenty of kids on major/AAA teams 6" shorter that hit the ball just as hard so this is an excuse plain and simple. Like you said, just wait till next year and you will see 6 foot 200 pound kids every weekend so get them ready to play instead of giving them a complex that the big boys might hurt them.
What's next? Big pitchers that throw really hard might peg their players by accident so they won't bat?
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