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bonesbaseball
24 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2011 : 11:02:41
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| Just wanted to see what some coaches think about other coaches trying to call other teams players knowingly during there practice at the same time and place at an indoor facility. |
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 14:48:01
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quote:
Originally posted by bonesbaseball
Just wanted to see what some coaches think about other coaches trying to call other teams players knowingly during there practice at the same time and place at an indoor facility.
Welcome to the world of travel baseball!
Seriously though, its not that uncommon. Happens before, during, and after games! |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 19:06:17
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| Success is very dependent on the talent level of a team, and we all know the same boys don't stay at the top. I believe the more successful teams do recruit, and the ones who say they don't have good enough teams to hand pick the kids they want. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2011 : 11:50:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Newton
Mr. Bones,
Unfortunately, they ALL do it, it just when they get caught do people get upset. There's more backstabbing amongst travel ball coaches than in that XBOX game "call of duty" that my 9yo son plays.
Mr. Newton
There is nothing wrong if a coach calls a kid to see if their solid with their current team. After all, if you lose a kid to finances, moving, divorce or some other reason then you'll probably need to replace him. For most teams that means they will need a kid from another team, it's not like there are 25 "free agent" travel ball players sitting at home waiting for a phone call.
The issue that I think many coaches have is the 25 phone calls that goes on for 2 months. If you call the kids parents a couple of times and they say no, move on and find another kid who might be interested. This is no different then if a team posts that they need 1 player and a parent from another team calls to inquire, is it? |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 10:08:36
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| Well put, tae. It is most certainly OK for a coach to "check in" to make sure a player would or would not be interested in your team. There are so many dynamics on any team. Parents, players and coachs may act happy at there current team but deep down they really don't like something about the team. A player or parent that is very happy with there current team will just dismiss your call as a compliment. If they do leave the team things weren't right with the team anyway. Now if you call to many times and I said NO then----like most grown adults I'll treat you like a solicitor and get nasty...lol |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 18:11:41
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| Sometimes the reason for this action is to intentionally backstab another coach. Backstabbing or not IMO, it's unethical, unprofessional and unsportsman like. The choice of words could go on and on but at this age it has no place. We all want to build the best team possible every year but when a coach is so determined to do so that they start calling parents of other teams then i think they're forgetting who this is all about, the kids. I've seen the ego of many coaches get in the way of why they should be coaching the game to begin with. I also know of kids that have paid a price due to these ego's. While there may not be 25 free agents out there, not that i personally refer to any 11 yr old as a free agent, i do think there are plenty of kids talented enough for travel ball that have no team. It's not another coaches fault that you lost a player for whatever reason therefore giving you the right to start calling kids on his team. If you want a certain player, go after him during the off season. If you're in need of that one more player, then put a post up and if a parent calls from another team then at least you acquired them respectfully. Bottom line bones, it happends but i don't agree with it. 1 call or 25 calls, it's unacceptable. There's no degree here. It's either right or wrong and my thoughts are as stated. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 21:55:52
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| M72, you know what they say "what comes around gos around" if players and parents are doing what you describe it will catch up with them at some point!! Your probably better off without them... |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 22:52:26
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| I will have to disagree with m72 here, without another coach calling us we would still be playing AA in Walton county....Because another coach thought enough of my nephew we have now seen parks all over the South and played for some VERY VERY good teams. It isn't the other teams coaches fault you lost a player that is correct, but the best way to keep talent year to year is to WIN...Period..You don't hear about players quitting top 3-5 teams every season, you hear about kids leaving teams to join BETTER teams. "It is about the kids", well my kid wants to win, he doesn't want to lose 25 games a year on a team that makes no effort to improve. While I think we all agree some coaches use RIDICULOUS tactics to get kids (contracts, promise playing time, call them "Rocket", etc. etc.) some coaches are extremely tactful, try to gauge interest from parents and then if the situation fits make a move. Some coaches build relationships with families during the summer when a kid joins for a tourney or two, these will be the first kids called when that particular team loses a player. Also, the same coach who says "this is about the kids" will tell their parents extremely negative things they have "heard" about such and such team or coach in an effort to keep the kid!! That isn't ok either...Again, this isn't to instigate an argument but rather to show there are clearly two sides to this issue. |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 02/13/2011 23:31:23 |
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biggin
174 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 17:58:46
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| I personly think once the real season starts which I consider rt now stop all the games and tactics to get kids and focus on improving what you got. During the fall its all fair game. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 20:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by biggin
I personly think once the real season starts which I consider rt now stop all the games and tactics to get kids and focus on improving what you got. During the fall its all fair game.
For the most part I think this is exactly how it is.....I don't think many adds or cuts will happen between now and May...I would be at least slightly confused if a top 2-3 player fell in our lap and our coach didn't consider it. There just aren't that many kids like that out there. |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 22:42:22
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Maybe i should have just kept it short and sweet like biggin. Spartan, i hear you but did that coach contact you during the season. There's a difference in calling a players parents that you know personally and that you know are unhappy for the purpose of saving them and their child from what you know from facts is a bad situation. Otherwise, make your contacts at the right time and based on bones question, that's not only the wrong time but unethical in my opinion. No argument started here. Just a difference in opinion.
Gwinnett, you're exactly right but what bothers me is how many kids end up affected by those ego's. No matter what goes around, in the end you can't take back how it affected the kids and what they went through. You can only try to heal the wound and hope it made them stronger. Yes, my son has been one of those affected by this but he's not the only one i've seen and it's not been easy getting him to understand he did nothing wrong. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 23:06:33
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M72, I know it would be very hard to explain to the rest of your team why they can't play because 2 of your 10 players decided to leave and left everyone else hangin in the beginning or middle of the season.
I can tell you, I wouldn't want to be in that situation!!!! I know I couldn't do that to a team no matter how unhappy I might be.. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2011 : 23:20:27
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| m72, yes we were contacted during the middle of the season. We were just piddling around AA tourneys and an opposing coach walked right up to us and asked if we would be willing to play some higher level tourneys. We had no real issue with our AA team except the whole 4 coaches equals 4 coaches kids in the infield. Mine was a right fielder during pool play, but when the game got close he was always moved to SS or 3B. It just was what it was, it wasn't the best situation but we weren't completely dissatisfied, we just didn't know bigger and better things were out there. And then the very next season (with our shiny new 10U major team) a VERY well known 12U(12U now 10U then) team came and spoke about our best 2 players. It was an opportunity they couldn't and shouldn't have passed up. We were one of the families displaced but IMO that particular team offered those two players BY FAR the best opportunity for them. I couldn't do anything but be thankful for our time on the great team and be happy those two boys got to play for a team like that. I know all of these things don't always end so nicely. As I stated before, this issue really only needs judgment on a case-by-case basis. I just hope all these "deals" work themselves out so boys can play where they belong, be it AA or playing up a year and major. I will completely agree it was difficult to explain to my nephew that our team that won 80% of our games against major competition was breaking up, nobody's fault just way it was gonna work out. |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 02/15/2011 10:11:22 |
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bigmcbb
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2011 : 09:45:19
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quote:
Originally posted by biggin
I personly think once the real season starts which I consider rt now stop all the games and tactics to get kids and focus on improving what you got. During the fall its all fair game.
Couldn't agree more. I think the issues that prompted "bones" to send out the original post had to do with aggressive recruiting tactics. One example, the phone calls did not end even after the parent told the coach "thanks but no thanks we are happy.". |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2011 : 16:18:55
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| Well, like many here have said, it is what it is. I don't get to involved in many of the topics on here but i do read them and this one just hit a nerve on two different levels. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a player moving on to a bigger and better team if that's where he should be and that's what he wants. Same for coaches getting bigger and better players, there's just a right and wrong way to do it. Trust me i do my share of scouting but i never approach a parent or child during their committed season whether i'm in need of a player or have one that's showing less than acceptable work ethic and needs replacing. Gwinnett, i'm sure your loyalty to that team is greatly appreciated. |
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dawgblu
18 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 13:15:57
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The coaches who try to justify this are probably the ones that do it. Why would an adult coach try to get a young man to break his commentment to his team. What kind of example does that show. That it is OK to break your word if your are not "happy". If this coach sees nothing wrong with a young man breaking his word to his existing team then I would worry about the same coach breaking his commentment to the same young man if a better player came along. It comes down to character. Just my opinion. My son would not play for such a coach.
Post a need and if a parent is interested the parent will initiate. |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 18:00:07
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| Dawgblu, you've made another great point with the character and commitment. Finally, someone that gets it. I'm going to follow suit and say the ones justifying these actions are the same ones doing it. Why else would one defend it. I'm sure they'ld say it has nothing to do with their ego either. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 19:05:49
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Most parents don't even know about this board??
Winning or good coaching/instruction or a combination of the both is how you keep talent and attract talent. If the kid is solid with his current team then a call from an opposing coach should do NO HARM!! |
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Jacked-up
59 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 22:24:58
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| How come no one calls about my kid ? |
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dawgblu
18 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 22:56:46
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| But it doesn't stop there. Some coaches will circle around like vultures and get to parents and players right after a bad game or especially after their son was made to sit for a bad attitude or too many mental errors. Good coaches will do this even though it may be their best player, and of course the parents always understand. It is about preparing the young man for life using baseball as a tool. Doing this while winning is just icing on the cake. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 23:45:20
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| And that is a completely valid opinion....But we(along with the majority of our team and players from teams past) use baseball as our outlet for our boys' need for competition. The boys have parents/teachers/older family members and people from church to prepare them for their adult lives. I find very little wrong with actually wanting to win and trying to build the best possible teams, while recruiting isn't for everyone ALL of the good/great teams are usually looking to become better. We are obviously not going to agree on this but it is worth noting that competitive spirit means different things to different people, if my nephew or I grow tired of watching the ball go between little Johnny's legs every time he is pitching or the same two kids who hit .140 ALL year long we might want to find a better situation, or the coach might wish to find a more talented player. IMO that is just the way it is around competitive travel baseball....Now the whole ugly side of offering contracts or paying their way(unless they are in need) is RIDICULOUS....But wanting to play on the best available team that will play every game to WIN has very little to do with ego. |
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 09:08:28
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Ok, wow. We all know where you stand on this one S4.
IMHO, I think it is fine for an over zealous coach to forge a relationship with the parents of a player from another team during a season. Never to approach the player, not at this age. It's good to be able to see what kind of rapor they have with each other. This is especially important when the coach is the coach of a highly competitive team. Last thing they need is bringing a new player into the mix and rocking the boat. It is also fine to say, hey, we are interested, let us know if you are. But the understanding should be when your commitment is over.
Parents and players in travel ball put a lot of time and money into their teams. Most teams have their whole summer mapped out. They are counting on having a "team" to play these tournaments. If you steal a player midseason then a lot of people are getting hurt. There is something to teaching our children about commitment and that means sometimes doing something you don't want to do and sometimes it's just the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, "you can't always get what you want". Now if you and your child are a thorn in the side of your team and everyone would rather you go. By all means. Look for another team. They won't care if you leave them high and dry.
Just saying. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 17:15:43
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The players of the major teams put a lot of time and money in as well....It is perfectly fine that we disagree, that is kinda what discussion boards are for!! They wouldn't be much fun if everyone agreed all the time. Last season we were handcuffed by some kids that were picked up purely for financial reasons, it left a bad taste in our mouth. Most of the really great or dominant teams do some form of recruiting, usually the good coaches do try to be discreet about it. One more thing to consider are the parents who contact coaches, the coaches usually take the blame for that as well. Either way some of the people who are being put in a bad light for recruiting (calling kids/parents)are very good friends of mine and I know they are great people who are only looking out for the best interest of their teams and their boys.
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Edited by - Spartan4 on 02/26/2011 20:46:44 |
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 21:24:29
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I am talking about all teams, especially major teams and certainly when it comes to the money put in. I think the major teams are the ones with the most pressure to try to be at the top. And yes, they need to recruit. There is just a right way and wrong way. I am a parent first. Respect and commitment are two things that need to be taught on the field. Commitment comes in many forms. One is sticking with and supporting your team. With that comes going to your practices and games. I don't care who has a party, etc. You make a commitment and then you stick with it. Your team counts on you and needs you, especially when you play for a competitive team. Otherwise go back to rec ball. And believe me, for the kid that is doing his part I am all for not asking them back.
Not saying agree or disagree. Just saying as a parent, there are life lessons that speaks about the person I want my kids to be.
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 08:40:41
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| Oops. Obviously, I meant coaches should have every right to not ask players back that are not doing their part. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 23:59:27
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So you are saying money put in by a kid who is the #11 or #12 kid is reason enough to hold down or handcuff the best 9??? Because I seriously doubt when parents of really good kids are looking for a new team the coach just comes out and says, "well hey, our #12 guy really isn't that good....can't catch or hit, but his mom and dad can write a check!!!"
How often is that put into the sales pitch these coaches put on when talking to new players?? |
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