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gasbag
281 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2010 : 08:56:45
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Would like some input here. Of the 5 Tools, list them in a hierarchy in order of importance with 1 being most important and 5 least important. I know all five are important but thought it would be interesting to get some different folks perspective. I've listed the five in no specific order as I don't want to prejudice any thoughts. Also with your list, some comments would be appreciated so we can all understand your perspective.
Thanks
Speed / Arm Strength / Hitting for Average / Hitting for Power / Fielding |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 09:50:28
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Good topic gasbag. I would say that it really depends on who the player is and what position they are playing. I will try to group players into a couple of categories and give my opinion.
First group I would say is corner infielders:
Hit for power/fielding/hit for average/arm strength/speed
middle infielders:
fielding/hitting for average/arm strength/speed/hitting for power
outfielders:
speed/hitting for average/arm strength/hitting for power/fielding
catchers:
fielding/arm strength/hitting for average/hitting for power/speed
Pitchers:
arm strength/stuff - nothing else matters.
I'm sure there will be some debate on my opinions. And I know that you can split thing up even more than I did, but without getting too complicated, it is my opinion. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 09:54:27
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| Bottom line if you can hit the coach has to keep you in the line up. |
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ErikB
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 09:55:49
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If I had to rank them as a coach as far as importance to what I need from a player......
1. Hitting for Average
2. Fielding
3. Hitting for Power
4. Arm Strength
5. Speed |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 10:42:14
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| speed and arm then power are the most important. The scout will think when they get you they can fix the rest but those three are kinda god given. You can improve some maybe but you can either run fast or not. Speed is the things that keeps most kids from getting a shot after high school. I am not talking college ball anybody that wants to pay can find a school to play college ball at now a days. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:20:48
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I agree with Breamking:
Speed is #1 Why? Because its used on both offense and defense. That's the only tool of the 5 that has dual purpose. Hard to teach.
#2 Arm strength. Hard to teach. Only place to hide a weak arm is 1st base, 2nd base, and DH. As the fields get larger, this tool is magnified.
#3 Hit for average. Hit for power is nice, but take a look at Andruw Jones's career. When his avg dropped to .222 he's bounced around ever since playing smaller and smaller roles. Compare that to Rod Carew, little power, but a long career w/ .328 Avg.
#4 Hit for power- hard to teach
#5 Fielding |
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stanlewis
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:31:35
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Here is a chart I got somewhere that "supposedly" is used by most major league organizations. It did emphasis that it was for evaluating players for college or pros - not youth baseball.
Catcher - field, throw, bat, power, run
First Base - bat, power, field, throw, run
Second Base - bat, field, run, power, throw
Shortstop - field, throw, run, bat, power
Third Base - bat, power, field, throw, run
Left Field - bat, power, run, field, throw
Center Field - run, field, bat, throw, power
Right Field - bat, power, field, throw, run
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Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:37:17
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Speed
Hit for average
Fielding
Arm strength
Hit for power
From a team perspective if you can get on base, run, and catch the ball, the rest will take care of itself.
I think the same holds true for an induvidual. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:52:49
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I may be wrong, but I heard that major league scout's first dis-qualifier is speed. Players must run a certain speed.
Pitchers is velocity and height |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 14:21:30
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Speed...Is easily number 1 for position players. Speed can only be increased ever so slightly.
Arm is probably #2 as it is also hard to improve dramatically.
But that doesn't mean you have to have speed and a big arm to play at the highest level...it just means if you don't you better be able to crush the baseball.
I had a guy I played with in college ball that was avg at best at everything except hitting he could crush a baseball. Problem was he was only 5'9" maybe 5'10'' if he was feeling really proud that day...anyway he made it to the show as a 1st baseman...don't see that very often 5'9" first baseman...needless to say he had a short career in the bigs but he made it! |
Edited by - mrbama31 on 05/07/2010 14:31:12 |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 14:40:24
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| mrbama31 was that first baseman by chance end up being a batting coach at Young Harris College? If not, this gut also was about 5'9" and played first in the show briefly. |
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mommy
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 17:05:44
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| Shut Out-I agree-To bad some coaches dont use that theory! |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 08:38:35
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Sutout and Mommy,
That is true to an extent, but there comes a point where you turn into a base clogger if you don't have some speed.
The DH has allowed for this to be true to some extent, but a player that can only hit, but not run, field, or throw will soon be displaced by someone that can hit and do one of the others at least a little bit.
There is always a place for those big hitters, that are slow, in slow pitch softball. They are always looking for those guys there.  |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 08:44:25
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quote:
Originally posted by biged
mrbama31 was that first baseman by chance end up being a batting coach at Young Harris College? If not, this gut also was about 5'9" and played first in the show briefly.
Im not sure...the guy I was speaking of is Frank Bolick. |
Edited by - mrbama31 on 05/08/2010 11:38:18 |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 07:57:43
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| mrbama, not same guy. Tim Burgess was the one I was refering to |
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bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 17:47:50
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quote:
Bottom line if you can hit the coach has to keep you in the line up.
So that's how come Matt Diaz is in the Braves lineup game after game. LOL. Lord knows he's got nothing else. No speed, can't field, can't run, ok power. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 10:00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by stanlewis
Here is a chart I got somewhere that "supposedly" is used by most major league organizations. It did emphasis that it was for evaluating players for college or pros - not youth baseball.
Catcher - field, throw, bat, power, run
First Base - bat, power, field, throw, run
Second Base - bat, field, run, power, throw
Shortstop - field, throw, run, bat, power
Third Base - bat, power, field, throw, run
Left Field - bat, power, run, field, throw
Center Field - run, field, bat, throw, power
Right Field - bat, power, field, throw, run
Do you guys think this list is the same for all of the kids age groups ?....or does it change with age perhaps and evolve into this ?....just curious.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:23:12
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My feeling about it is that at the younger ages, you can get away with athletes playing multiple positions. And you should let kids play multiple positions. You never know what they will be called upon to do when they get older. As the kids get older, the above hierarchy will begin to apply. Really, it will progress throughout. At the younger ages, it may start with the first baseman. Think about it. If you have a bigger, slower kid that can hit the stink out of the ball, where do you put him? At first base. Your quicker, more athletic kids, you can shuffle around and put them where it best suits the team and where they may fit in best.
Depending on where you go to HS, it will be similar. However, if there a lot of kids for the coach to choose from, he will be looking to fill holes. As he does that, I think the above list applies more and more.
Then when you get to College or the Pros, they can pick from whoever they want from where ever they want. They will be looking what they need and will begin to grade the kids in the order listed. If they need a shortstop, they will look for a kid who can field first with a strong arm, fast (quick) with a decent bat and power is last. You can go through the whole list position by position.
I would think travel teams are more like college and pros than HS. Travel teams can pick who they want from where ever they want. So, if you are a travel coach who is looking for a SS, what are you looking for in the kids trying out? If you need a CF, what are you looking for? etc... In HS it will be the same, but you are picking from a limited group. Coach will pretty much use the same criteria, but will sacrifice some areas because he may not have anyone who fits the bill perfectly. Once you are ready to go beyond HS, there are so many players to choose from, coaches will look until they find the right combination of what they need for what position and make them an offer.
I think the list Stan put up is pretty accurate. |
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Hierarchy of the 5 Tools
