| Author |
 Topic  |
|
jaguars18
245 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2010 : 18:15:34
|
I feel bad for my oldest kid as he was told if he does not play school ball this summer he can not play on the team next year? Can school coaches mandate this? The school team is not anywhere near as good as the team he wants to play with this summer.
|
|
|
DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 21:10:25
|
| We have a friend in a similar situation. He can play on another team, but his priority has to be the school team. My understanding from his parenst are that kids have not played summer ball, and they have not been invited back the next fall. Seems a bit unfair, but it seems it does happen. |
 |
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 21:19:12
|
| Technically, coaches cannot mandate it. But I have seen good kids get cut "because they are not good enough". The real reason was because they didn't play summer. Kind of hard to prove that was the reason though. |
|
|
|
Mike Corbin
523 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 21:56:30
|
| Is this the HS coach demanding this? It is a HS violation to make playing for a summer team "mandatory". And only in rare instances is the school team EVER as talented as the summer teams we usually play for. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 12:23:38
|
It is all about what the goal is for your kid. If his goal is to play on the HS team, then, by all means play for the summer team. If his goal is to get a college scholarship, and his summer team puts him in a better situation to do that, then you have to weigh the options a lot closer.
My son is excited about the possibility of playing for the HS team next year, but his goal is to play in College. His summer program is a lot more poised to be able to get him the visibility to make that happen.
What I am afraid is going to happen is a lot of HS coaches are going to get put in a tough situation by having to cut players they wish they could keep. Or are going to have to make exceptions.
What I always thought would be great is for a HS coach to take the kids he wanted to develop, and have a team in the summer. It would give the players a lot of exposure to the coach, and give the coach a lot of work with players he may need to depend on in the next couple of years. Let his better players, that are on really good summer teams, go and get the work and exposure they need. |
|
|
|
jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 13:34:43
|
| Hard to get to college if the HS coach shelves your kid |
|
|
|
mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 14:32:52
|
| It will not shock me that sometime in the future that the best high school players will NOT play high school baseball. They will play on ELITE Travel teams 6 months out of the year..So they can play in SHOWCASE tournaments year round... this is where the scholarship/drafted players will play. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 14:51:31
|
jaguar,
Not if the summer program is getting him the visibility with the scouts that he needs. If asked "Why are you not playing for your HS team?" and you reply "Because he requires all his players to play on his summer team and I felt that the summer program I am with provides better opportunities to develop and be seen."
Who looks worse in that situation. |
|
|
|
billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 14:58:52
|
Really tired of this topic.
Can you guys name one player who failed to get a scholarship offer because he played high school summer ball instead of summer travel? If “Junior” is a good ball player and he has his mind set on playing at the next level recruiters will find him. If his stats suggest that he has skills, coaches/scouts will find him (that’s their job). If he is a marginal player and you want him to get better by playing on an Elite team getting better may not happen. Sometimes playing with better players tends to make you look more marginal.
High school summer ball is ONE month out of 12. Teams will play 20 -25 games during that month. I dare say you actually get more games for scouts and recruiters to watch than if you played Summer Travel during that same time period. Suck it up, play for you school and bat .700 with 20 HRs.
Again remember, Elite teams will ALWAYS be better than HS teams when you cherry pick the best players from several schools. Why not have these teams work with schools to put together an Elite league for their “studs” to compete and showcase talent. Perhaps if they did HS coaches would embrace the idea instead of strong arming kids to play with their HS teammates.
|
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 15:19:59
|
| mrbaba31, don't think that will happen for a couple of reasons. One is, HS ball is too big and too important to most kids. Secondly, college plays their schedule in the spring and very few of them have the chance to go out and watch games in the spring. Don't think it would be worth it to most to do showcase type things rather than HS ball at a time when college coaches can't attend the events anyway. |
|
|
|
12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 15:21:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by jaguars18
Hard to get to college if the HS coach shelves your kid
Absolutely not true. College coaches are aware of how big a problem this can be.
For 10 years I argued in dugouts with all kinds of High School coaches about this topic, and to each and everyone I shut them up when they talked about kicking a kid off the team for not playing summer ball and my reply was always to point out that they would rather lose games than admit that the kid can get better coaching and be seen by more scouts playing elsewhere. I would continue any argument with pointing out the selfishness of the coach. Only one coach tried to hurt me, he is now coaching football.
You don't need high school. My counter argument is always the same, in Cobb County they have had upwards of 88 teams in the McEachern Wood Bat Tournament, and in the years I was part of it I am not aware of any college coaches or scouts who showed up at any of the games. They waited a few weeks to see better (Their words not mine) kids and more of the at East Cobb.
Now, if your coach really wants to do it right, then make sure the team is playing every weekend from June 1 - August 1. (Except for the STATE MANDATED WEEK OFF THAT TRAVEL BALL DOES NOT HAVE), and make sure that you enter tournaments that get the kids noticed, not tournaments in West Georgia or North West Georgia hosted by GHSA-AA and GHSA-AAA teams....
|
|
|
|
zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 15:37:46
|
| I agree with mrbama. I hear that already happens with soccer (especially girls looking for college scholarships), but I wouldn't know. We don't have any soccer players in our family. |
|
|
|
gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 15:39:23
|
| Why do HS Coaches mandate this ? Seems to me you'd want your best kids playing the best competition so they all come back and are prepared for the traditional HS season. I'm suspicious and suspect this is money driven ? What do you guys think ? |
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 22:12:06
|
| Billbclk, listen to 12u coach. We played (travel team) at several HS tournaments last summer. No scouts. Played in ECB in July - TONS of scouts. The big scouting tournaments during the year are the WWBA events at ECB in July. The problem with playing on a HS summer team in June is that it makes it real tough to get on a good team in July if you are basically missing half the season. There are so many good players around here, you really cannot rely only on good stats. If you are playing AAAAA region 6 or 7, stats might mean something, anything else, they don't mean much because the competition is not as good. Bottom line is you have to get yourself out there in front of the scouts and promote yourself. If you are a high level player looking to play at the next level, summer exposure is the best route. |
|
|
|
jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 08:13:12
|
Most all the high school coaches win because of what their players learned in travel ball not because they taught them anything.
They have 2 jobs, raise money and pencil in lineup
Gasbag is dead on |
Edited by - jaguars18 on 04/24/2010 09:45:54 |
|
|
|
billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 11:15:14
|
| bballman, we are basically talking about the same thing. The GHSA gives the HS coaches until the beginning of July to work with the entire team, after that the most they can do is 2 on 1 coaching. My point is, if like you suggest in July the scouts start to show up; then why not play June HS summer ball. |
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 12:59:15
|
| Like I said in my previous post, how do you get on a good team half way through their summer season? Thru the month of June, these higher level travel teams have established their lineups. Are you just going to come in and take the SS's job when he's been doing it for a month? Are you going to come into an established team and take over the #4 hole, knocking someone who has been playing for a month out of the line up? The only way this would possibly work is for a very high level pitcher. For a position player, it is almost impossible. |
|
|
|
mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 16:58:15
|
This is true
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Like I said in my previous post, how do you get on a good team half way through their summer season? Thru the month of June, these higher level travel teams have established their lineups. Are you just going to come in and take the SS's job when he's been doing it for a month? Are you going to come into an established team and take over the #4 hole, knocking someone who has been playing for a month out of the line up? The only way this would possibly work is for a very high level pitcher. For a position player, it is almost impossible.
|
|
|
|
beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 20:23:54
|
There are actually some teams/coaches out there that understand the HS coach wants his underclass players to learn his system. They are flexible enough to allow players to come in July and play. There are also HS coaches that don't want their Soph's & Jr's playing summer ball with them -- just Frosh.
I don't know a single player who was drafted as a HS freshman.
Frankly, I'm very happy with my son playing on a successful HS program that will be going to the playoffs this year. Playing June baseball with his HS coach, then going to play July WWBA and fall baseball in front of college & pro scouts. Who cares about USSSA or TC trophies. Development & getting in front of the right people is all that matters. |
|
|
|
bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2010 : 22:47:43
|
I'm not talking about playing USSSA and TC. At least for our team, we are playing in college showcase tournaments in June. I am also talking about playing on a high level team. Maybe as a freshman, it is OK, but, between soph & jr year and between jr & sr year, it is a big deal. We did have one guy last year that played on his HS team in June. Played with us in July. He was a very good player - on varsity roster as a freshman - and still had a hard time finding a regular position when he came back. Can it be done? Sure. Is it fair to put a kid in the position to have to choose? No. That's why there is a GHSA rule not allowing coaches to mandate it. If you are pressured, you will have to make a tough decision. I think HS ball is important for a lot of reasons. I also think summer travel teams are important for a lot of reasons. As your kid gets older, the opportunities provided by summer teams become more important. Especially if they are top level prospects.
Like I said, it is unfortunate some coaches put kids in the uncomfortable position of having to make a tough decision. Especially when they are not supposed to do that. |
Edited by - bballman on 04/25/2010 08:29:04 |
|
|
|
Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 12:22:12
|
| Only see two reasons why HS coaches push their summer teams. One is a sense of control over players and potential team building, the other is a few additional dollars the summer program puts in their pocket. In most cases, their programs would be better served if they took a summer vacation and allowed their players to hear a fresh voice or voices on the better run travel teams. Baffled by coaches who indirectly and directly pressure kids to play on HS summer team. |
|
|
|
kehndog
88 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 04:45:56
|
Interesting to read the differences of opinion - thanks to everyone who has chimed in on this thread. Here's my 2 cents ...
While baseball is most certainly a team sport, there are individual skills that each player most hone in order to advance to the next level. I think the best way to hone those skills is to suit up with and play against the best competitors one can find under the direction of the best coaches one can find. IMHO, neither of these qualities are typically found in summer HS programs in Georgia, Florida, Texas, or California. In the other 46 states, there's not nearly as many quality options from which to choose, so HS summer ball may be the way to go. |
Edited by - kehndog on 04/27/2010 08:36:49 |
|
|
|
BBmaniac
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 08:47:50
|
| HS June ball is all about money. THere is no "developing players" motivation. If HS coaches are not careful they are pushing the top level players to start considering not playing high school ball and focus on training, showcases and high level travel ball. I agree with one of the posts above, HS need top level players far more than those players need HS ball. |
|
|
|
mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 09:59:07
|
| How do they make money? |
|
|
|
Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 08:42:16
|
I wish people wouldn't keep talking about kids quitting high school ball because the coach forces them to play summer ball - if I were a college scout, I wouldn't touch a kid under those circumstances. Also, kids won't quit unless the PARENT forces them to quit.
High School ball provides a higher level of discipline - grade requirements, grooming requirements (for most teams) that prepare kids for the next level in more ways than just baseball. So they have to make a sacrifice and play for the summer team for 1 month - big deal (life lesson). They are still PLAYING baseball.
In reality its the travel teams that are hitting the players for money with the promise of college scouts and pro scouts. The stud players will find a place to play in the summer if they want to, regardless of whether they start in June or July. The marginal guys will have more trouble - but they are just getting soaked by the travel teams anyway. |
|
|
|
Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 10:14:15
|
Hey, high school baseball should be played during the school year - not during the summer. Does the high school football team re-group and play games in June? How about the basketball team? Does the drama club put on a summer play?
The issue isn't whether high school or summer baseball is better. Nor is it about the notion that one provides a higher level of discipline, which, in my experience, doesn't always come out in favor of the HS game. Fact is, once school is out players shouldn't be directly or indirectly pressured to play on a high school team.
The notion that kids, even top players, can play HS summer ball and then matter-of-factly jump onto a summer team come July is also flawed. Good luck unless your a stud pitcher.
The fact is if HS coaches are so interested in being around and developing their players, then why don't they push to extend the actual HS baseball season? Forget about messing with summer plans. If the school year runs until late May, why is it that 9th grade and JV teams are ending their seasons in early April? That's at least a 5-6 week lull. So what's the deal? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
School ball in summer
