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billbclk
164 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2010 : 10:40:15
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YEAH.
We have a WINNER!!! Tell him what he won.
As far as the money goes: everything cost money. Some guys make it seem like HS coaches are getting rich for Dugout Club fees.
Topscout: Great post. |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 10:58:38
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Our travel coach is not making us sell braves tickets that no one wants so we have to buy them, he is not making us sell coupon books so they can build a hitting cage 4 years from now or pay his bonus.
We pay to play tournaments and that is it. Our high school coach does not want our kids to take lessons but yet has never pitched in a high school game or played a big time college schedule but he does not want us taking hitting lessons and does not spend any one on one time with players. I say travel is better ball, better coaching and much more fun. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 11:58:36
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All you guys complaining about fees for HS ball, why don't you just quit and play a rec schedule during the spring? I, for one am getting tired of hearing the complaining. For me, whatever it costs, it is worth it. I LOVE watching the HS games my son plays in and he LOVES playing for his HS team. Period. Look, it costs what it costs. It is a free country, no one ever said you HAD to have your kid play HS ball. If you don't like it, tell your son he is not playing because you don't agree with the fees and how the money is being spent. I think then you will see how much playing on the HS team means to him. I guarantee he will be devastated. That should be reason enough to pay.
As far as the summer ball issue goes, I personally think it is totally unfair for a coach to pressure the kids to play in June. Once again, that is why there is a GHSA rule against it. If you have a coach doing that, he is a rule breaker and a cheater. The coach can make the team available for those who want to play, but, you should not be penalized for not doing it. Period. If you can prove the coach is pressuring the kids or requiring that they play summer ball on their team, report them to the GHSA. It is just plain wrong. That is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Here is the Rule quoted from the GHSA Constitution and By-Laws:
"(3) During the summer (i.e., between the ending of one school year and the beginning of the next) the
only restrictions on practices and competition are that all activities must be strictly voluntary, and the
“Dead Week” must be observed, as follows: Schools are prohibited from participating in voluntary
workouts, camps and/or clinics, weight training or competitions during the week (Sunday through
Saturday) in which the Fourth of July falls each year."
That should be the end of the story. |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 12:06:30
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Sultan,
Football is worse than baseball with the summer thing...weight lifting and conditioning is required along with 7 on 7 leagues/camps.
I point this out not because I disagree with the summer should be the students time to choose how to spend their time. But to point out heaven forbid your son be a 2 sport player ...this becomes a real challenge to juggle and make all coaches happy while still trying improve and get attention from scouts/recruiters in regard to baseball.
quote:
Originally posted by Sultan
Hey, high school baseball should be played during the school year - not during the summer. Does the high school football team re-group and play games in June? How about the basketball team? Does the drama club put on a summer play?
The issue isn't whether high school or summer baseball is better. Nor is it about the notion that one provides a higher level of discipline, which, in my experience, doesn't always come out in favor of the HS game. Fact is, once school is out players shouldn't be directly or indirectly pressured to play on a high school team.
The notion that kids, even top players, can play HS summer ball and then matter-of-factly jump onto a summer team come July is also flawed. Good luck unless your a stud pitcher.
The fact is if HS coaches are so interested in being around and developing their players, then why don't they push to extend the actual HS baseball season? Forget about messing with summer plans. If the school year runs until late May, why is it that 9th grade and JV teams are ending their seasons in early April? That's at least a 5-6 week lull. So what's the deal?
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 12:30:37
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I have a question.....if High School Coaches are so interested in grooming kids, why don't they go Coach Travel ball for the summer ?
Just wondering and thinking out loud..... |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 13:50:33
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| Last year's Alpharetta head coach had tried that and wound up having to choose between being the HS coach and the travel program he ran. He chose the summer program and lost his head coach job at Alpharetta. I know an assistant at one of the local HS's is also the coach for a summer travel team. Guess it can happen, but one must balance one's time carefully. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 13:58:10
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GHSA Rules prohibit HS coaches with working with players after June 30.
There is a place for both in the players freshman year if done right.
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
I have a question.....if High School Coaches are so interested in grooming kids, why don't they go Coach Travel ball for the summer ?
Just wondering and thinking out loud.....
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 11:47:50
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| Great subject matter. I have had 3 kids already go through this and a fourth will be in this mess next year. My personal opinon, any coach that threatens a player with not playing next if you avoid his summer team needs to be reported. By our choice, none of my children played school summer ball and always made the team the next year. Harrison and others do not even have a summer program. Some specific teams in Cobb County, Paulding County and others brow beat their players. Some even have it as part of their website player guidelines. The only time you will see a scout come to your school, ever, is if you have a true blue chip player. Most coaches don't even respond to coaches letters about players. They don't care. High School baseball during the season is awesome, so are the State Playoffs, but coaches, get a real job during the summer. |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 14:18:59
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
All you guys complaining about fees for HS ball, why don't you just quit and play a rec schedule during the spring? I, for one am getting tired of hearing the complaining. For me, whatever it costs, it is worth it. I LOVE watching the HS games my son plays in and he LOVES playing for his HS team. Period. Look, it costs what it costs. It is a free country, no one ever said you HAD to have your kid play HS ball. If you don't like it, tell your son he is not playing because you don't agree with the fees and how the money is being spent. I think then you will see how much playing on the HS team means to him. I guarantee he will be devastated. That should be reason enough to pay.
As far as the summer ball issue goes, I personally think it is totally unfair for a coach to pressure the kids to play in June. Once again, that is why there is a GHSA rule against it. If you have a coach doing that, he is a rule breaker and a cheater. The coach can make the team available for those who want to play, but, you should not be penalized for not doing it. Period. If you can prove the coach is pressuring the kids or requiring that they play summer ball on their team, report them to the GHSA. It is just plain wrong. That is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Here is the Rule quoted from the GHSA Constitution and By-Laws:
"(3) During the summer (i.e., between the ending of one school year and the beginning of the next) the
only restrictions on practices and competition are that all activities must be strictly voluntary, and the
“Dead Week” must be observed, as follows: Schools are prohibited from participating in voluntary
workouts, camps and/or clinics, weight training or competitions during the week (Sunday through
Saturday) in which the Fourth of July falls each year."
That should be the end of the story.
Good for your kid. Is he getting the kind of instruction and every day play from May 15 - August 1 that a Travel kid CAN get? Is he being seen by the type of people that can take him to the next level? If so, good for your Coach they are the exception. If you play in the tournament I had to schedule 5 years ago the only people in the stands were parents, siblings and girlfriends. On some days I would be at the High School in the afternoon and East Cobb in the evening, guess where I saw better baseball and more college and MLB people?
Cream rises, no successful College Coach will turn away a 5 tool kid because he wanted to play travel ball in the summer. Coaches at every level should be challenged every day if you don't understand why.
This argument comes up each year and it is the same people saying the same things. So I will continue my fight to rid the world of stupid rules by TEACHERS.
Oh, and to the person who keeps saying June 30, it is JULY 31. The school year starts when football practice starts or the first day of classes. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 15:15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by 12uCoach
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
All you guys complaining about fees for HS ball, why don't you just quit and play a rec schedule during the spring? I, for one am getting tired of hearing the complaining. For me, whatever it costs, it is worth it. I LOVE watching the HS games my son plays in and he LOVES playing for his HS team. Period. Look, it costs what it costs. It is a free country, no one ever said you HAD to have your kid play HS ball. If you don't like it, tell your son he is not playing because you don't agree with the fees and how the money is being spent. I think then you will see how much playing on the HS team means to him. I guarantee he will be devastated. That should be reason enough to pay.
As far as the summer ball issue goes, I personally think it is totally unfair for a coach to pressure the kids to play in June. Once again, that is why there is a GHSA rule against it. If you have a coach doing that, he is a rule breaker and a cheater. The coach can make the team available for those who want to play, but, you should not be penalized for not doing it. Period. If you can prove the coach is pressuring the kids or requiring that they play summer ball on their team, report them to the GHSA. It is just plain wrong. That is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Here is the Rule quoted from the GHSA Constitution and By-Laws:
"(3) During the summer (i.e., between the ending of one school year and the beginning of the next) the
only restrictions on practices and competition are that all activities must be strictly voluntary, and the
“Dead Week” must be observed, as follows: Schools are prohibited from participating in voluntary
workouts, camps and/or clinics, weight training or competitions during the week (Sunday through
Saturday) in which the Fourth of July falls each year."
That should be the end of the story.
Good for your kid. Is he getting the kind of instruction and every day play from May 15 - August 1 that a Travel kid CAN get? Is he being seen by the type of people that can take him to the next level? If so, good for your Coach they are the exception. If you play in the tournament I had to schedule 5 years ago the only people in the stands were parents, siblings and girlfriends. On some days I would be at the High School in the afternoon and East Cobb in the evening, guess where I saw better baseball and more college and MLB people?
Cream rises, no successful College Coach will turn away a 5 tool kid because he wanted to play travel ball in the summer. Coaches at every level should be challenged every day if you don't understand why.
This argument comes up each year and it is the same people saying the same things. So I will continue my fight to rid the world of stupid rules by TEACHERS.
Oh, and to the person who keeps saying June 30, it is JULY 31. The school year starts when football practice starts or the first day of classes.
12u, maybe you misunderstood what I said. In the first part of my comment, I was talking about the parents who complain about the fees to play HS ball during the HS season. In the second part, I was talking about the fact that it is wrong for a coach to pressure or require kids to play for the summer HS team.
Believe me, I know that it is better to play for a high profile travel team in the summer. That is what we are doing. Last year as a 15 yr. old team, we played in two HS tournaments. No scouts there. I think we played 8 games in the varsity level at those tournaments and lost one game. We played that team later in the year and beat them pretty good. Rest of our tournaments were 16, 17 and 18 yr. old tournaments at colleges plus the 16u WWBA at ECB.
This year, as a 16 yr. old team, we are playing at 3 18u wood bat tournaments at Auburn, Kennesaw State and Univ. South Carolina plus the 16, 17, and 18 WWBA at ECB. We'll add a couple of more showcase tournaments, but that is a pretty stout, high visibility schedule. If you can play and compete at that level, you should. Not many colleges or scouts will take much of a look at 15yr. olds, but starting at 16, you should be ready to showcase. And that is not going to happen on a HS summer team.
Like I said before, one of the problems for those that play June HS summer ball will be getting on and in the lineup of a good summer travel team after they have been playing for a month. Unless you are a stud pitcher. I am all about getting the exposure and playing with and against the best competition available over the summer. As long as you keep an eye on the overuse issue for pitchers, that can only make you a better player - for your future and for your HS team.
Hope that clarifies things. |
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BBmaniac
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 18:05:59
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| Gosh, I wish someone would start a travel circuit for high school elite starting February....HS can not compete with elite travel in quality of coaching or competition....or exposure to scouts for the next level!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 09:06:18
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Ok, still waiting for some sage folks to offer up their insight . . . If HS coaches are so interested in being around and developing their players, then why don't they push to extend the actual HS baseball season? Forget about messing with and getting in the business of summer baseball. Where are they now when the weather is actually decent and summer teams haven't really kicked off? If the school year runs until late May, why is it that a fair number of 9th grade and JV teams ended their seasons in early April? That's at least a 5-6 week lull. So what's the deal? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 09:19:21
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I think end of the season is theorheticaly for varsity teams pushing for the playoffs. During the month of April, many of the better JV or even freshman players are brought up to the varsity team to either just get a feel for the varsity environment or to actually get some play time. If a team is out of the playoff picture, the players with real potential will get their opportunities. And that really is developing the better players and preparing for next year. For the teams in the playoff hunt, I would think the varsity coaches don't want field time taken away from varsity for freshman or JV games being played when varsity should be practicing. After all, ultimately, it is all about varsity baseball. JV and freshmen are there to feed the varsity team, but the ultimate goal is for the varsity team to make the playoffs every year.
I know some will say that the best way to build a team is to have the freshmen and JV to play longer, but in reality, those kids who will have the most potential to play varsity next year will be moved up to the varsity team this year and get their reps in. All this is speculation and just my opinion of course. |
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Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 09:26:29
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Sultan, Good questions.
I think there may be a couple of answers:
1. GHSA limits schedules to 26 games for varsity and 18 for JV, so unless the coaches can get the game number raised, it would be tough to play later. JV could start later though to avoid the cold weather since they don't have playoffs.
2. Maybe the issue of school finals is the reason for limited play in May. |
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Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 13:25:33
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Appeciate the thoughts. I understand the limit on games, but still doesn't make sense that some 9th/JV seasons end the first week of April. Heck, at that point, finals are 6-7 weeks down the road. I also understand that maybe a handful of kids get brought up to varsity at the end of the season, but between 9th/JV teams you might have close to 30-35 kids.
Again, my beef is coaches preach about the need for 6 weeks in the summer to develop the 9th/JV players, but they appear to waste the near equivalent number of weeks between the end of the season and when school ends. |
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mechanicsplus
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 20:12:18
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Maybe the issue of school finals is the reason for limited play in May.
GHSA mandates start and finish times and number of games played (26 varsity and 18, I think, for JV). The JV Season plays out by mid- April leaving a few weeks to prepare for Varsity Playoff's. The entire month of May is reserved for the 32 Team State tournament to play out it's five rounds and possible 15 games.
I can readily see why a Coach would like to be able to keep some of his Freshman/JV members together for another 16 games or so in June. Conversely, I can see where he needs to let his Varsity level players the opportunity to play a more competitive Summer/Travel schedule if they intend to play at the next level. |
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kehndog
88 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 11:06:46
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| Bottom line, IMHO, is that HS baseball is NOT the platform for player development. It is more of a "check the box" sport for most (not all) schools. Gotta believe that HS coaches recognize that far better development opportunities exist at places like ECB, 6-4-3, Elite/Mizuno, etc. |
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theTRUTH
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 23:13:53
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It is sad that HS baseball has come to all this, it does not seem like the future of our kids will get to enjoy a sport they love because of money and politics, but unfortunately it is "theTRUTH" |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 10:27:21
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My son is finishing his 1st year of HS ball. A freshman who spent most of the season riding the bench for varsity. The team is headed to the playoffs this week. I say this only for perspective.
He is a much better ball player today than he was 6 months ago mainly because of the instruction he received from his HS coach. He will play in June with HS and then play on a high level showcase team in July and fall.
Sorry guys but I believe that the HS is the place where the teaching takes place and the Travel is where the visibility/recognition happens. You need both. And if it takes one month away from visibility at 15U to get even better I see that as a good investment. Beyond freshman year I agree it is travel all the way, and our coach shares that view. |
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kehndog
88 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 12:25:57
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| Curious ... what is the process for joining a high level showcase team in July? Is that something you have pre-arranged already? |
Edited by - kehndog on 05/04/2010 12:42:28 |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 13:30:27
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Kehndog,
We took a little risk last summer after the ECB try-out. We declined a offer @ ECB only because we felt there should have been more interest after his try-out, only to find later that coaches lock up players before the try-out with out players knowledge or consent.
We connected through group of players from our HS team. It is a organization with a great reputation and teams at all levels through college.
I just thought there would be more opportunities in the spring for this level and was correct. We are going to play in all the high profile events this summer and get outstanding coaching and instruction along the way. |
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Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 14:23:59
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Beanball,
Sounds like you found the best of both worlds. Not sure about the benefits of a freshman riding the varsity bench, but more importantly he was in a rare situation where the coaching staff had the ability and time for instruction. Good luck this summer.
As for player development, I have to agree with kehndog. Not sure HS is really the platform. |
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 15:31:45
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quote:
Originally posted by beanball
Kehndog,
We took a little risk last summer after the ECB try-out. We declined a offer @ ECB only because we felt there should have been more interest after his try-out, only to find later that coaches lock up players before the try-out with out players knowledge or consent.
We connected through group of players from our HS team. It is a organization with a great reputation and teams at all levels through college.
I just thought there would be more opportunities in the spring for this level and was correct. We are going to play in all the high profile events this summer and get outstanding coaching and instruction along the way.
What organization is your son playing with this travel season? It sounds as if your chosen path to finding a summer travel team was a good choice for your son, and possibly others would benefit with this information. Undoubtedly, other rising freshman will be better next spring than at the end of this summer. Thanks. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 16:54:55
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Nothing wrong with that beanball. Your son must be a pretty decent player to be on the varsity team, even if he didn't play much. Not many freshmen have that opportunity.
HS ball, like any other team, can have good coaches and bad coaches. The great thing about HS ball (regular season), is you get to play with a bunch of your friends and kids you see at school everyday. Other kids at school get to see you play. That just doesn't happen over the summer. My son has one other kid that goes to his school on his summer team. It is fun and rewarding and challenging, but it is not the same as HS season. He loves it. |
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School ball in summer
