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Originally posted by sarbur

All ;

I am not an active baseball parent this forum was passed to me by a friend who is . I am an active school system counselor with formal education in Psychology ,current employed at the high school level.

This is an issue we are asked to examine and consider perhaps once every couple years usually in the summer prior to the freshman classes beginning . Without delving into the "hardship" rules of the school system which we must consider first and foremost I can say with experience that it is with rare exception that holding back a student exclusively for sports advantages is not only something we strongly discourage it is as well in my professional view a profound personal mistake for many reasons ;

To touch on a few ;

-The student is now being told either verbally direct or by these actions that school achivement and disclipline to learn with your system age group is not important , as it is apparently not a priority in the family . He or she (we see both) is being told by the parents that sports is what we see as your only future in success as to entering the world as an adult , and that sports is the only avenue where you can be socially accepted by your peers.

-Sports at the high school level has now become an obsession by these parents to live vicariouly through their child's athletic achievements. In fact there is a extremely almost astronomically low success rate of high school sports stars actually becoming professional athletes, it is also very difficult for them to become college level athletes and retain a four year scholarship. This is per unforseen injuries , lack of academic ability to remain qualified to be in the collegiate athletic program , others.

-Scholastic athletic activities are a privilege , but not an avenue to circumvent the school systems guidelines of age to grade placement. This is true for athletics , drama , music , all programs. Sports at the highest level create celebrity status , however high school is about emotionally maturing and thus accepting responsibilities so that one may be able to exercise a responsible and productive life upon graduating. To trade this vital life skill responsibility for a few years of perceived glory is not only grandiose and short sighted it is also quite irresponsible on part of the parents who promote and allow it , regardless of how a 14 or 15 year old adolescent may feel about it at the time .

I have strongly encouraged parents to stay with the academic and life skills course that the school system has put in place for everyone ,hence allow your child to make his own way without expecting handicaps and favors , which is the clear message when allowing them to stay behind for sports .

Thank you for considering my views and remarks .

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Originally posted by BBmaniac

There are good reasons and bad reasons. If a kid is small for this age and/or particularly weak then maybe...More importantly if he is having learning difficulty then for sure....But this practice is mostly about parents that are getting too caught up in youth sports. It is more about a parent that thinks this will give his player that advantage to put him/her in that 2% that can actually make a living at this.....How many kids can understand, appreciate and accept why he is being held back and distanced from his buddies and peers....

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Originally posted by mrbama31

Holding a kid back gives him 1 more year for maturity when dealing with the following...
1. High School...and the many pressures that come from it and puts him in a more
leader type role to deal with peer pressure, school and yes sports.
2. It really can broaden his circle of friends by him being enter twined with 2
classes of students.
3. He is a year older when starting college and potentially living away from home
for the first time.
4. Year older when he starts his first Career Job.
5. Most likely a year older when he gets married.
6. Most likely a year older when he becomes a dad.
7. ETC..

Being a year older can make a very big impact in a young mans life when dealing with all of these "LIFE" decisions and situations. And at worst it doesnt make any difference whats so ever. Seems like a no brainer to me especially if the child is young for his grade.

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Originally posted by BBmaniac

mrbama, IF these were the driving forces behind the decisions that are the topic of this post it would be one thing.....but the vast majority are made for athletic reasons not maturity in life reasons.

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Originally posted by mikewells

quote:

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Originally posted by mrbama31

Holding a kid back gives him 1 more year for maturity when dealing with the following...
1. High School...and the many pressures that come from it and puts him in a more
leader type role to deal with peer pressure, school and yes sports.
2. It really can broaden his circle of friends by him being enter twined with 2
classes of students.
3. He is a year older when starting college and potentially living away from home
for the first time.
4. Year older when he starts his first Career Job.
5. Most likely a year older when he gets married.
6. Most likely a year older when he becomes a dad.
7. ETC..

Being a year older can make a very big impact in a young mans life when dealing with all of these "LIFE" decisions and situations. And at worst it doesnt make any difference whats so ever. Seems like a no brainer to me especially if the child is young for his grade.

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I am with the schools counsellor on this one please do not take unkindly but these are what I would call bailouts on growing up.

Keep in mind he or she is the same calender age as the other students who are not being held back .

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Originally posted by tschnell

If you take the various studies and books on the subject (Outliers, little league biological age studies, NCAA D1 biological age study, MLB birthdate studies, etc.) and combine that with the following potential gap "biologically young" atheletes must face, I believe there's a case for holding back for both mental and physical reasons, which have nothing to do with getting a young man into higher levels of baseball (college, MLB, etc.). Personally I could care less about that, I just want my son's playing physical games their entire life, and that only happens with early support and joy from doing so.

Here's an example, my son is 11 (January 99), but his biological age is between 8.5 and 9 (based on bone age studies every 6 months). Assuming every other athelete in his grade has a biological age matching his chronological age, my son is 2+ years behind his potential bone mass, muscle mass and limb length.

If you add the results of the little league biological age study, which shows many have a advanced biological age (+2 years) as compared to their chronological age, my son is now 4 years behind. Add in another year, for those that are advanced AND held back, my son must deal with a 5 year gap.

While my son's doctors are monitoring him every 6 months, at this point they believe he will "catch up" to his potential, at around 18-20 years of age, the so called extreme late bloomer. They project his potential at 19-20 to be 5'11" - 6', so he is way behind the growth curve.

Until athletics is based on biological age, "natural selection" will dictate that biologically advanced athletes will receive the attention. Every coach who makes their living based on wins understandably does this.

I don't believe my son is MLB or College level prospect, but if you can't see the obvious self esteem issues created by someone potentially 4 years behind physically, you're ignoring all sorts of studies indicating lasting negative impacts on such individuals.

I believe my son is among the most extreme cases, I don't know the numbers, but my doctor gives me the impression he's the extreme of about 15-20% of constitutionally delayed men.

I really struggle even considering holding him back, until I see him giving 175% on the field, and that just barely keeps him reasonable against others giving 75% of their potential. Or when he huddles with the team and is constantly kidded for his size, or when coaches completely overlook him or forget his name as they try to get the big uncoordinated kids to hit better, because one of their misses goes further than my son's season best line drive over SS.

He's my hero, standing up, and trying without any of the tools his competition has, just his attitude and desire.

But I feel like he could use a break sometime soon, it's weighing on him.

I wonder what the psychology is ... of telling a child they aren't suited for something, that they should find another activity that's a better fit, as opposed to telling them they're physically behind, so they're being held back in hopes they will catch up?

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quote:

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Originally posted by tschnell

If you take the various studies and books on the subject (Outliers, little league biological age studies, NCAA D1 biological age study, MLB birthdate studies, etc.) and combine that with the following potential gap "biologically young" atheletes must face, I believe there's a case for holding back for both mental and physical reasons, which have nothing to do with getting a young man into higher levels of baseball (college, MLB, etc.). Personally I could care less about that, I just want my son's playing physical games their entire life, and that only happens with early support and joy from doing so.

Here's an example, my son is 11 (January 99), but his biological age is between 8.5 and 9 (based on bone age studies every 6 months). Assuming every other athelete in his grade has a biological age matching his chronological age, my son is 2+ years behind his potential bone mass, muscle mass and limb length.

If you add the results of the little league biological age study, which shows many have a advanced biological age (+2 years) as compared to their chronological age, my son is now 4 years behind. Add in another year, for those that are advanced AND held back, my son must deal with a 5 year gap.

While my son's doctors are monitoring him every 6 months, at this point they believe he will "catch up" to his potential, at around 18-20 years of age, the so called extreme late bloomer. They project his potential at 19-20 to be 5'11" - 6', so he is way behind the growth curve.

Until athletics is based on biological age, "natural selection" will dictate that biologically advanced athletes will receive the attention. Every coach who makes their living based on wins understandably does this.

I don't believe my son is MLB or College level prospect, but if you can't see the obvious self esteem issues created by someone potentially 4 years behind physically, you're ignoring all sorts of studies indicating lasting negative impacts on such individuals.

I believe my son is among the most extreme cases, I don't know the numbers, but my doctor gives me the impression he's the extreme of about 15-20% of constitutionally delayed men.

I really struggle even considering holding him back, until I see him giving 175% on the field, and that just barely keeps him reasonable against others giving 75% of their potential. Or when he huddles with the team and is constantly kidded for his size, or when coaches completely overlook him or forget his name as they try to get the big uncoordinated kids to hit better, because one of their misses goes further than my son's season best line drive over SS.

He's my hero, standing up, and trying without any of the tools his competition has, just his attitude and desire.

But I feel like he could use a break sometime soon, it's weighing on him.

I wonder what the psychology is ... of telling a child they aren't suited for something, that they should find another activity that's a better fit, as opposed to telling them they're physically behind, so they're being held back in hopes they will catch up?

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Originally posted by loveforthegame25

Well I was 17 as a freshman in college. some of my teamates that were freshman were 19. Mom why didnt you hold me back??????????

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Originally posted by gasbag

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Originally posted by tschnell

If you take the various studies and books on the subject (Outliers, little league biological age studies, NCAA D1 biological age study, MLB birthdate studies, etc.) and combine that with the following potential gap "biologically young" atheletes must face, I believe there's a case for holding back for both mental and physical reasons, which have nothing to do with getting a young man into higher levels of baseball (college, MLB, etc.). Personally I could care less about that, I just want my son's playing physical games their entire life, and that only happens with early support and joy from doing so.

Here's an example, my son is 11 (January 99), but his biological age is between 8.5 and 9 (based on bone age studies every 6 months). Assuming every other athelete in his grade has a biological age matching his chronological age, my son is 2+ years behind his potential bone mass, muscle mass and limb length.

If you add the results of the little league biological age study, which shows many have a advanced biological age (+2 years) as compared to their chronological age, my son is now 4 years behind. Add in another year, for those that are advanced AND held back, my son must deal with a 5 year gap.

While my son's doctors are monitoring him every 6 months, at this point they believe he will "catch up" to his potential, at around 18-20 years of age, the so called extreme late bloomer. They project his potential at 19-20 to be 5'11" - 6', so he is way behind the growth curve.

Until athletics is based on biological age, "natural selection" will dictate that biologically advanced athletes will receive the attention. Every coach who makes their living based on wins understandably does this.

I don't believe my son is MLB or College level prospect, but if you can't see the obvious self esteem issues created by someone potentially 4 years behind physically, you're ignoring all sorts of studies indicating lasting negative impacts on such individuals.

I believe my son is among the most extreme cases, I don't know the numbers, but my doctor gives me the impression he's the extreme of about 15-20% of constitutionally delayed men.

I really struggle even considering holding him back, until I see him giving 175% on the field, and that just barely keeps him reasonable against others giving 75% of their potential. Or when he huddles with the team and is constantly kidded for his size, or when coaches completely overlook him or forget his name as they try to get the big uncoordinated kids to hit better, because one of their misses goes further than my son's season best line drive over SS.

He's my hero, standing up, and trying without any of the tools his competition has, just his attitude and desire.

But I feel like he could use a break sometime soon, it's weighing on him.

I wonder what the psychology is ... of telling a child they aren't suited for something, that they should find another activity that's a better fit, as opposed to telling them they're physically behind, so they're being held back in hopes they will catch up?

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Tschnell - You're on target with your observations IMHO.....however, don't overlook his academic side in the equation. If he is succeeding academically and prospering, holding him back for the physical aspects may create confusion to him. In many instances, kids that are behind the curve from the physical standpoint, counteract that by excelling from an academic standpoint. Just be careful and consider what kind of message this would / could send to him from that perspective.

This isn't an easy decision but it is one of the most important ones for you and your family. Good luck with it.

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Originally posted by Alter-Ego

I am just curious how many people on here actually "Know" enough people that have done this, and the true reasons behind it, to use the words "Vast Majority". From a statistical perspective, I would take "Vast Majority" as being something above 80% of the occurrences. The occurrences that i am referring to are holding a kid back in 8th grade, not deciding to start them a year later to Kindergarden. I know, maybe just one, that has held a kid back in 8th grade and it was not due to sports.

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