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jongamefan
218 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2010 : 16:07:02
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We are hearing about some cases of parents allowing their children to be held back a grade in middle school so they will " be better in high school at sports" or "be with their friends" or reasoning like this.
Any opinions about this ? |
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clg003
79 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 20:26:32
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| Read the Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. There studies that show people whom are older than their classmates have more success in more than just sports. Success that is evident throughout their lives and not just in their high school years. I understand it’s a taboo topic but there are really some interesting studies being done that might make a good argument for considering such things. This study is more about kids who have late birthdays and are the oldest in their classes but I would imagine the same would hold true for someone you held back for reasons other than they just failed. I know a kid who was held back because he had an early birthday and he was just an average student in school and the parents felt like he wasn’t as mature as most of his classmates. 2 years later the child is an A student, very popular (social skills) and is a better athlete in comparisons to his peers. His confidence is soaring and it seems like a perfect move for them. Not saying that would hold true for all but I would imagine most parents considering this are doing so for many reasons not just the stated few. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 21:18:26
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We never question if parents want to hold their kids back because they are behind socially, or academically, but seem to be appauled if people would prefer to have their kids line up in HS more with the age of other kids from an athletic perspective.
Many parents sent their kids, with a late birthday, on to Kindergarten even though they were going with kids that were up to a year older. Now many see their kids are always having to work twice as hard to keep up and would have benefited from going to transitional Kindergarden and being on the older end of the age group for their grade rather than the youngest.
Well 8th grade is the last opportunity to do anything about it because once you start HS, your athletic clock starts and you only get 4 years of elegibility.
We can all discuss whether it is the right thing for our own kids, but by voicing an opinion about whether it is right or wrong for someone else's kid is bridging over into questioning their parenting decisions. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 23:24:15
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| Soon, every parent will hold their kids back, and we'll all be back where things were when I was a kid, only a year later for everyone! Our son was born mid July. We pushed him forward and haven't looked back, but he has friends in his class that are 15 months older. The argument that holding kids back makes them more successful only works if most other families play by the rules and keep their kids in an age appropriate grade. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 04:40:27
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The real question is what are the benefits of holding back your child for sports reasons. I personally believe that if that certain child has the desire and potential with an extra year of development to exceed or meet those physical and mental attributes of his or hers upper class-man then by all means give them that opportunity.
Any child who is willing to do this obviously has goals of playing beyond high school. There are certain kids that will always be the youngest in their class because of how their birth dates fall during the school year. As most of you already know there is a significant difference in physical development even over just a 8 to 10 month difference in age. Plus lets not forget that extra year of maturity that will also present some advantages from not only a social aspect but also a sports aspect.
My son is the perfect example. Because of where his birth date falls he will always be the youngest in his required sports age group. However if his birthday was 38 days later he would be the oldest. For those kids that have aspirations of playing high school and college baseball being the youngest can and will hinder their exposure for those opportunities unless you happen to be one of those rarities of physical development and ability.
Look at Tim Tebow. This was a player who was a man among boys. Tim was home schooled most of his life and took the extra time to allow for his physical as well as maturity development. This extra time developing benefitted his college playing career. This is one reason my wife and I have discussed allowing our son to do the same thing. He is a home schooled student that we will have those options assuming he has the tools required and the desire to pursue those opportunities in high school and beyond for baseball.
Look at high school and college sports. How many freshman do you see starting for their perspective sports. There are hardly any. The reason for this is quite simple. They dont have that extra physical or maturity development of their peers. That extra year or two of development makes a huge difference in their ability to succeed at either the high school or college sports level.
Just My 2 Cents |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 08:29:36
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If a student has constant difficulties with grades or with maturity issues relating to getting along with others their age then you consider holding them back
That to help them get through school without dropping out
To hold a student back from high school so favorite friends can be hanging around or to hopefully be more achieving at sports that is patently ridiculous
Sports will conclude and very few make even a dollar from it : but life doesn't end at high school nor do all the priorities lessons you learned good and bad from parents and other influentials
I will say if their true athletic future was so promising or so important you would never need to handicap them back a year anyway !
Yes I am absolutely appaled when this is going on for high school athletics at the grade school or junior school years |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 08:37:43
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Interesting aticle from a few years ago related to MLB players and late birthdays.
http://www.slate.com/id/2188866/ |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 03/03/2010 09:14:46 |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 08:46:27
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My personal experience is this: We have two sons, one is now almost 21 and the other 13. I believe we made a mistake sending number 1 son to kindergarden and not waiting another year. He struggled academically and we went the tutoring route and spend lots of additional time with him, just to get by. As the years rolled by, it gets harder and harder to make the decision to hold a kid back. When it was time for number 2 son to go off to kindergarden, we new we'd wait that extra year. For us, that was the best decision we could have made and he is thriving and enjoying school much more than our 1st son. When we were making these decisions and contemplating these issues, never once did we consider how this could impact our son's sporting activities. Should we have, I'd have to say yes ! That's a head scratcher to some but here are my thoughts....it would not be so he can be a professional athlete but so that he could enjoy the additional benefit of succeeding athletically and this may help build his self confidence. Building a kids self confidence and self awareness is huge in their development. It is not about winning or being the star, but it's about competing with your peers, winning and losing together, your place on the team, your responsibilty etc. These qualities transfer into other parts of their lives and help develop well rounded young adults.
Is this an easy decision...ABSOLUTELY NOT ! However, it has the ability to impact your kid perhaps for the rest of his life so don't take it lightly. I still regret for number 1 son's development, not having the courage and insight, to hold him back at some point. Live and learn I guess.
Great dialogue and great subject to get input from others experience with their kids. |
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mammabee
95 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 09:55:09
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never would we do it
then what am I telling him its more important to try to be a high school jock and college player than to learn life skills like how to get along good with those who really are your same age and to learn how to acheive those good grades ?
cmon who we doing this for after all
wrong priority i think |
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Sultan
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 10:25:45
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| It makes perfect sense to delay the start of a child's formal education or at some point hold he/she back if the struggle academically or with maturity issues. Just not sure parents see the big picture when they try to manipulate the system to down-the-road give Johnny a better chance to impress the pro scouts and college coaches. Tim Tebow isn't a great example, either. He played as a 22-year-old his senior season at Florida and his physical maturation was never an issue. Holding him back, if he was, is silly cause the kid as a 17-year-old was a physical brute - a man. Take the comparision with Matthew Stafford who played his last year at Georgia as a 20-year-old. Point is, at that age you have the skills to impress pro scouts or you don't. Physical maturity tends to level out at 18, 19, 20, so the kid being held back better enjoy his advantage now. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 11:18:36
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Ironic how trends change. When my son, now a freshman, entered school the prevailing wisdom was to enter children early so that they where challenged and hopefully become better for it in the long run. Even in sports early on a lot of parents pushed for their children to "play up" in age. Now the trend is to hold back.
It is a personal decision for parents. I do feel however, it is better to hold back children early rather than latter. i.e. pre-k or Kinder. A lot of stigma is attached to holding back middle school students. Boys benefit more than girls for this and birth dates to matter. If your child has an August birthday and you hold him back, he is less then a month older then many of the older kids. However, if your child is born in September, he is already older then most of the kids already.
One final thought, is that colleges do take into account age and physical growth. i.e. the 17 yr old graduate. |
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mikewells
45 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 12:57:11
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Yo Ed I feel ya on the stigma factor.
My kids would kill me if I embarrass them like this or any other way in front of the whole school
We'd be worried if they werent embarrassed by it
Hope a lot of parnets arent going to this trend cuz in my estimation its well over the top so to maybe be a better relative athlete , if youre that good you dont need a year off just play ball dude!
quote:
Originally posted by biged
Ironic how trends change. When my son, now a freshman, entered school the prevailing wisdom was to enter children early so that they where challenged and hopefully become better for it in the long run. Even in sports early on a lot of parents pushed for their children to "play up" in age. Now the trend is to hold back.
It is a personal decision for parents. I do feel however, it is better to hold back children early rather than latter. i.e. pre-k or Kinder. A lot of stigma is attached to holding back middle school students. Boys benefit more than girls for this and birth dates to matter. If your child has an August birthday and you hold him back, he is less then a month older then many of the older kids. However, if your child is born in September, he is already older then most of the kids already.
One final thought, is that colleges do take into account age and physical growth. i.e. the 17 yr old graduate.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 14:33:02
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I'll chime in here. My son's birthday is in mid-July. He has always been on the small side. In kindergarten, all year, the teachers were telling us we should have him do kindergarten again. He was a little behind academically and was on the immature side. By the end of the year, he was caught up academically so they couldn't make us have him do it again. They still strongly encouraged it. After much thought, and we did consider athletics as a part of the equation, we decided to have him do kindergarten again. Keep in mind that he was not playing any sports at the time. He didn't start playing baseball until he was 7, so we had no idea if he was any good at anything or not then. Part of the decision was influenced by the fact that I have a September birthday and was young for my grade. I was actually still 17 when I entered college. I have not regretted the decision.
Now, take growing up playing baseball. Because of his July birthday, he never, until he played travel at 12, was the age of the age group he played in. This was back when the cut off was August 1. He was always one of the youngest in the league. I think this served him well. Because he was smaller, he had to work harder for that spot on the team. He had to step it up against the bigger guys. He is a sophomore in HS and is currently playing with many of those kids he played rec with who are now juniors. Of course, that is much less of a factor now because of the age change date. He is just about in the middle for that date, but growing up, playing with the older kids was a good experience.
All that being said, I think making this decision too late is not a good thing. My younger son still teases him about getting left back in kindergarten. We have to constantly emphasise that it was a decision we made, he did not get left back. To expose a middle school kid to the ridicule of not moving on with his friends borderlines on being cruel if you ask me. It is also rather grandiose on the part of the parents. If the move is made, it needs to made early and for the right reasons. If the kid is on the small side, immature and struggling academically, then it may be the best thing - as long as it is done very early, or before school even starts. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 14:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
Interesting aticle from a few years ago related to MLB players and late birthdays.
http://www.slate.com/id/2188866/
Thanks for posting the link to that article. This article validates my own personal opinions and experience as it relates to baseball. That extra year of development is huge.
Sultan: You are correct in that physical maturity does level out at 18. However that is not the case for incoming freshman in high school. We all already know that those opportunities for a chance to play college baseball start once you hit high school. Just as the older kids in a particular age bracket TEND to shine in travel baseball. The same holds true most of the time in high school baseball. Either way you have to have the tools needed but that extra year of physical maturation can and often doe level the playing field.
Why do you think that MLB has had issues with latin players and their age? Latin players understood what the advantages would be to them with those extra years of maturity by lying about their age to get those doors opened by MLB. My sons older adopted brother played with the Dodgers and Cardinals organizations. MLB had him listed two years younger than he actually was. ( Which By The Way My Wife And I Didnt Know About Till This Year ) Now I personally dont condone lying but because of this it afford him opportunities that otherwise he might not have received because of that extra couple of years maturity.
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mechanicsplus
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 17:03:29
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G-Man "centered" this topic nicely when he cited the advantages socially and physically that the older child athlete realizes. Ask any Educator or Coach, that will be forthright, about how well the older boys perform in the classroom and on the diamond. This is not news as the article posted confirms. I saw an earlier study, done in the 1950's looking at Little Leaguers competing at Williamsport. Their study concluded that the players on those Championship teams, while Chronologically most were legitimately 13 years old (At August Championship time) their biological age (determined by X-ray development of the elbow growth plates) was 15!
As the book "Outliers" reports those early advantages compound over the years into opportunites the the younger players never see. Certainly there is an advantage to the older H.S. Junior trying to be recruited or the Senior looking to be drafted.
As an athlete that graduated at 17 (with an August birthday) and gained 35lbs of muscle that next year, I can tell you that the extra developmental year would have been most beneficial, socially and athletically.
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21BS21
28 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 13:02:29
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Ok, here is my 2 cents.
In the experience with my daughter, holding her back from starting kindergarten for one year would have really helped her. She has a late Aug. birthday and if we would have held her back, she would have had a much better chance at getting a scholarship to a major college because of the way they recruit. I am unsure about other sports, but in fast pitch, the big schools will get their verbal offers out to their recruits when they are in 10th grade. My daughter’s improvement from her 10th grade year to her 11th grade year was incredible. She has had 5 major college coaches tell her that they would love to offer her something but they have already committed to another player at her position. At least 2 of those girls that have those offers were held back in middle school. There is no way my daughter would have let us hold her back in middle school. I believe it would have changed her entire attitude on things.
On the other hand, my son has an Oct. birthday and is already a head taller than everyone in his age group. Except for those East Cobb Baseball boys, where do they find those kids? He would most certainly not have benefited from being held back. Also, he would be 19 during his senior year and unless I am mistaken, you can not play high school sports once you turn 19.
So, it depends on the child as to what parents should do for their children. It will be good for some but not for others.
If we had another child and I survived the heart attack after finding out we were, I think we would hold them back only if they had a June-Aug. birthday and do it before they ever started school. Then pray that we were making the correct decision.
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 08:29:31
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21BS21,
It sounds like your son was already held back like is being referred above. The question is whether a kid graduates as a 17 year old or 18. The kids with birthdays in the Oct-Dec already are held back or start K at 4.
The issue comes with kids that have birthdays in the May - Sept range. |
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cards
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 09:19:27
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| It appears GHSA rules on age is that an individual cannot turn 19 prior to May 1 of the previous year. I take this to mean if he/she turns 19 before May 1 of junior year, they are ineligible. |
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sarbur
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 11:58:08
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All ;
I am not an active baseball parent this forum was passed to me by a friend who is . I am an active school system counselor with formal education in Psychology ,current employed at the high school level.
This is an issue we are asked to examine and consider perhaps once every couple years usually in the summer prior to the freshman classes beginning . Without delving into the "hardship" rules of the school system which we must consider first and foremost I can say with experience that it is with rare exception that holding back a student exclusively for sports advantages is not only something we strongly discourage it is as well in my professional view a profound personal mistake for many reasons ;
To touch on a few ;
-The student is now being told either verbally direct or by these actions that school achivement and disclipline to learn with your system age group is not important , as it is apparently not a priority in the family . He or she (we see both) is being told by the parents that sports is what we see as your only future in success as to entering the world as an adult , and that sports is the only avenue where you can be socially accepted by your peers.
-Sports at the high school level has now become an obsession by these parents to live vicariouly through their child's athletic achievements. In fact there is a extremely almost astronomically low success rate of high school sports stars actually becoming professional athletes, it is also very difficult for them to become college level athletes and retain a four year scholarship. This is per unforseen injuries , lack of academic ability to remain qualified to be in the collegiate athletic program , others.
-Scholastic athletic activities are a privilege , but not an avenue to circumvent the school systems guidelines of age to grade placement. This is true for athletics , drama , music , all programs. Sports at the highest level create celebrity status , however high school is about emotionally maturing and thus accepting responsibilities so that one may be able to exercise a responsible and productive life upon graduating. To trade this vital life skill responsibility for a few years of perceived glory is not only grandiose and short sighted it is also quite irresponsible on part of the parents who promote and allow it , regardless of how a 14 or 15 year old adolescent may feel about it at the time .
I have strongly encouraged parents to stay with the academic and life skills course that the school system has put in place for everyone ,hence allow your child to make his own way without expecting handicaps and favors , which is the clear message when allowing them to stay behind for sports .
Thank you for considering my views and remarks . |
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tn3sport
28 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:33:05
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Yeah, GA is May 1st of junior year.
Tennessee is August 1st (going into senior year).
Florida players are ineligible on the day they turn 19 years plus 9 months. (Unless they are in a playoff tournament on that ineligible date. They are allowed to finish the tournament.)
So, depending on state, you could have MEN nearly 20 years old playing HS sports... |
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:12:10
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| I grew up in South Carolina in a football crazy town call Summerville. The High School coach is the winningest coach of all time. I had many friends that I grown up with repeat a year in elementary school in order to be big and stronger once they got to High School. Other kids looked at it as a badge of honor. They thought of it a sign that you were a really good player. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:41:31
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| I was 17 in college playing with some 22 year olds. Wish i was held back |
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slider16
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 18:21:08
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| I enjoy reading all the posts on the site and thought I'd throw in my experience for the first time. When it was time to put our son in kindergarten, it never occured to us to think about how he would fit in with his peers or how it might affect him playing sports. He was very bright and the thought of him going through Pre-K again was not really an option for us. We didn't really see our decision to start him early in school as a factor until middle school. His lack of maturity was what we, as his parents, noticed the most. We met with the middle school counselor and realized that the number of "hoops" we would have to jump through would still not allow us to hold him back. We basically had to have two doctors put down in writing that our kid had "mental issues" which would hamper his learning. Forget it! We certainly question why he does some of the things he does, like not turning in your homework beacuse you "just forgot", but he was not mentally unstable. Because he was an excellent student and didn't have any behavior problems, there was really no support from the school to grant our request. The reason the process is so difficult has to do with this very topic. There was even something on the website we were directed to that addressed the issue of holding back your child for athletic reasons. We decided not to cut through all of the red tape and our son was mortified at the thought of being held back and not moving on with his class. Let me just say, our son is now a Freshman in high school. He's the youngest in his class and also the smallest of all of his buddies. He tried out for his high school team, worked his tail off, and beat out some tough competition and made it! Long story short....would we have held him back sooner if we had thought to in our younger years and his? Absolutely!! But I'll have to say, we couldn't be prouder of our son who is playing the game he loves and pulling a 4.0 with honors classes. There's also nothing better than watching you kid play for his high school. It's a totally different experience. |
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mikewells
45 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 18:52:10
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WOW may be Lane Kifin was right 
quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
I grew up in South Carolina in a football crazy town call Summerville. The High School coach is the winningest coach of all time. I had many friends that I grown up with repeat a year in elementary school in order to be big and stronger once they got to High School. Other kids looked at it as a badge of honor. They thought of it a sign that you were a really good player.
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 01:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by slider16
Let me just say, our son is now a Freshman in high school. He's the youngest in his class and also the smallest of all of his buddies. He tried out for his high school team, worked his tail off, and beat out some tough competition and made it! Long story short....would we have held him back sooner if we had thought to in our younger years and his? Absolutely!! But I'll have to say, we couldn't be prouder of our son who is playing the game he loves and pulling a 4.0 with honors classes. There's also nothing better than watching you kid play for his high school. It's a totally different experience.
Whata great story of responsibility and determination Slider !!
I love it ! |
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a1prog
164 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 21:43:38
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| my now 16 year old is the largest 3rd grader of all time......... |
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Holding your child back in school for Sports ? ?
