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Ryno23
123 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2017 : 04:17:37
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I am looking for advice and some insight of parents of older players, who have had a conflict of philosophies from their travel/summer team coaches and their high school coaches. To save you a lot of unnecessary details, this is my son's first year in school baseball program and currently plays on the JV team. For the first month of practices, the JV and varsity teams practice and workout together. Obviously, this allows the varsity coaches the opportunity to work with kids that they envision of being able to play on the varsity team for the next few years. My son has been working with his travel ball coach all Fall and Winter in the cage, and really defined the mechanics of his swing and ultimately I feel is a big contributor in his ability to make the JV team as an 8th grader. I have only seen bits and pieces of about three practices, and from the couple of times I have watched the two teams hitting on the field, and he is consistently hitting the ball hard with line drives in the gaps. My son came to me last night to tell me the varsity head coach wants to tweak a few things with his swing, things that will completely change the fundamentals of his load and timing....the very things that his travel ball coach has worked with him on over the last several months. The coach made a suggestion to him last night, of going home and watching major league hitters swings on YouTube....and honestly his swing is modeled after two of the best right handed hitters in the game!
As a parent who is trying to teach life lessons at every opportunity, and I feel this situation can be a valuable life lesson. Anyone who has had a similar experience over the years, I am curious how you handled this situation without undermining the high school baseball coach? |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 09:41:20
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That is a tough one without seeing your son's swing I can't really say, but what exactly does he want him to do differently or tweak? Who are the players he wants him to emulate? Who are the two he is emulating now?
If your son is in 8th grade how can he play JV? If it was me and I trusted the hitting coach he has been using in Travel, I would tell my son to shake his head yes and keep doing what his hitting travel coach has been telling him. The Varsity coach wont care once JV starts. If he puts up big numbers then a good coach will leave him alone. Without knowing the Varsity coaches background or hitting philosophy its a tough call. I would not be tweaking anyones swing at this point in the season unless they were struggling or I saw something major that was really bad. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 10:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
If it was me and I trusted the hitting coach he has been using in Travel, I would tell my son to shake his head yes and keep doing what his hitting travel coach has been telling him.
This^^^ |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 13:23:11
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I saw a kid at UGA. Kid could flat out rake. Was hitting home runs all summer wood bat league summer ball. Coach changed his swing, struggled after that. He would go back to his old swing in intrasquad started hitting HR's again. Coach gets mad because he is not doing what he says. Thank god they got rid of that coach. Kid is playing in minors now.
Coach is coaching at HS level now. LOL |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 14:03:33
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So much unknown here, what was the adjustment? A player should know his own swing and be able to discuss the aspects of it with his coaches. A high school player shouldn't have to consult his paid hitting coach about an adjustment, the paid hitting coach should have your player so well versed in the swing mechanics that he can discuss all parts with the high school coach in a respectful conversation.
Often a swing that works for age 12 and 13 and 14 at batting practice will never really work for an actual high school game.
Words that do not belong on a high school baseball field: "But My coach at the academy says......."
Words that do belong: "I'll give that a try, but this is what I'm trying to accomplish and feel with my current style, at what point am I drifting toward a swing flaw" |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 15:27:39
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| Come on, no 8th or 9th grader is going to debate with a Varsity Coach. They are going to do exactly what he says until they get in 11th or 12th and they will probably just say yes sir and keep doing what they have been successful doing. Most 8th and 9th graders don't know enough about their swings to know if they are doing something wrong or not. Heck most HS coaches don't really understand the pro swing and most that played teach something they didn't even do. |
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Stink
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 16:39:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Come on, no 8th or 9th grader is going to debate with a Varsity Coach. They are going to do exactly what he says until they get in 11th or 12th and they will probably just say yes sir and keep doing what they have been successful doing. Most 8th and 9th graders don't know enough about their swings to know if they are doing something wrong or not. Heck most HS coaches don't really understand the pro swing and most that played teach something they didn't even do.
I was about to say this. I've never seen an 8th grader that understands the concepts of a swing fully. Most coaches, me included, don't fully understand it. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2017 : 17:24:03
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Yes.
Double yes if you are showcasing with the academy and playing at pg every weekend to be recruited at grade 9. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 07:57:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Yes.
Double yes if you are showcasing with the academy and playing at pg every weekend to be recruited at grade 9.
I know more than one 8th and 9th grader that can debate his swing mechanics and talk about their swing plane, exit velocity, launch angle, hip rotation, staying open/closed, and a slew of other things I know nothing about (that's why I pay other people). |
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IBABASEBALL
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 09:59:00
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Do you know any 8th and 9th graders that will debate it with a Varsity Coach?
Even if a 8th or 9th grader knows what he is talking about (not just repeating something he heard someone say) a coach is going to immediately consider this kid a PITA from day one.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 11:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by IBABASEBALL
Do you know any 8th and 9th graders that will debate it with a Varsity Coach?
Even if a 8th or 9th grader knows what he is talking about (not just repeating something he heard someone say) a coach is going to immediately consider this kid a PITA from day one.
If a coach considers a kid a PITA for having a discussion about why he does this and that in his swing and asks the coach how what he is suggesting will help....well frankly that says more about the coach than the kid. Lemmings don't help win championships. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 13:48:18
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Usually it is just a misunderstanding... But sometimes:
A friend of one of my sons was doing two on ones before the tryouts his sophomore season. He should easily make the Varsity. He contacted my son and asked if I could work with him a little before tryouts, that he thought what the coach was telling he could not master. When he came over and I started tossing some balls for him. After 10 balls it was obvious that he was trying to do what the coach told him and he was making good contact but with no power compared to what he hit the previous summer. I took a tee over and told him to hit some off the tee and he set it up in the middle of his stance. I scratched my head and he took some swings and I asked shouldn't that be hit to right field. He said the coach wants to hit this to left center. I thought to myself he has to be misunderstanding what the coach was saying. So I pull out my phone and show him some video analysis of professional hitters and it showed how/where contact should be made.
We went back to the tee adjusted it in his stance, worked a little on the hands. Started pitching batting practice and the power came immediately. Saw him a week later and I asked him how the tryouts went. He said he tried the first part of the week to hit like the coach kept showing him and on Wednesday decided to go back to what we worked on off of live pitching. Two line drives to the gaps and one dinger later the coach starts barking at him about his swing. Did not make the team, went to an alternative HS team and led the team in hitting, HR and RBIs and played the summer with the 16U 'stros.
I was not there and I do not know the beef the coach had with this player, but sometimes it is obvious two different coaches will look at a player and see different things.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 13:55:13
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Welcome to the world of HS baseball. Not all coaches take this approach but many will.
CaCO3 has your son entered 9 grade yet? I hope you have a different experience than some of the parents I know or knew that were not so lucky. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2017 : 14:59:44
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I good coach will not try to change a batters swing if he is making solid contact. There is a difference between looking good and being effective. Every batter has a different method of hitting and there is no cookie-cutter format to it. The only thing the coach should do is work on identifying the types of pitches to hit and let the batter adjust to hitting them. HS coaches are having a hard time getting solid players to begin with because scouts are at PG events and not going to HS games. This is a benefit for baseball players. HS Coaches are bitter about it.
Coach could have a beef because of player is playing with a certain team or academy he didn't make. HS's can't afford pro-level coaches, so they are stuck with leftovers that need a check. There are always options. Stick to what pays, some of these HS coaches want to see a great player fail.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 08:22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Welcome to the world of HS baseball. Not all coaches take this approach but many will.
CaCO3 has your son entered 9 grade yet? I hope you have a different experience than some of the parents I know or knew that were not so lucky.
Yes, he's on the high school team AND had a conversation with the coach about his swing mechanics. The coach actually explained what he saw in my sons swing, what he wanted changed, and what he hoped it would do. I believe most folks would call that coaching. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 09:20:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I good coach will not try to change a batters swing if he is making solid contact. HS coaches are having a hard time getting solid players to begin with because scouts are at PG events and not going to HS games.
Obvious some high school coaches are trying to change swings even if they make contact, that is exactly what this post is about.
And I don't understand the part about HS coaches having a hard time getting solid players because of PG? All good HS players play with their HS, PG is a whole different time schedule? Do you have any updates Ryno23 on this situation? What exactly was the coach trying to change you never replied to that? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 12:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
I good coach will not try to change a batters swing if he is making solid contact. HS coaches are having a hard time getting solid players to begin with because scouts are at PG events and not going to HS games.
Obvious some high school coaches are trying to change swings even if they make contact, that is exactly what this post is about.
And I don't understand the part about HS coaches having a hard time getting solid players because of PG? All good HS players play with their HS, PG is a whole different time schedule? Do you have any updates Ryno23 on this situation? What exactly was the coach trying to change you never replied to that?
I meant to say a good HS coach should not try and change the batters swing. Playing HS is becoming some nostalgic rite of passage for most. |
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 12:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
If it was me and I trusted the hitting coach he has been using in Travel, I would tell my son to shake his head yes and keep doing what his hitting travel coach has been telling him.
This^^^
I have told my kid this many times. Nod your head, give it a try, then just do what feels comfortable. I think this may be an ego thing. If you sample 10 different coaches, they likely all tell you different things regarding swing mechanics.
My kid has not made it to high school yet, but he has taken hitting lessons on and off for 6 years. His swing has evolved over time to where it is today. I don't believe in making major changes to suite some preference. Everybody's swing and pitching motion as well is different. I hate when people decide to tinker with those things. They take what a player has done successfully and start screwing with it. I can understand if they player is not producing or struggling. However, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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chollyred
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 12:51:55
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In our area, all of the high school coaches know all of the hitting coaches and which kids are taking lessons from them. So far, they have been very supportive. If a kid is struggling, the high school coach will tell the kid to talk to the hitting coach about this or that.
When mine started lessons with the paid coach, he was making good contact, but struggled getting any power. He hit .520 in freshman ball, but had a lot of hits that just barely managed to squirt through the infield. At first the paid coach tried molding him into a specific style, but quickly realized that it wasn't working and changed directions. Now he's flirting with a 400 foot fence and hitting ropes to the gap. His high school coaches are loving it. They aren't changing a thing!
If you're getting GOOD paid coaching, I'd do like suggested above. Do what's working. A lot of these high school coaches are really managers, not true coaches. I wouldn't worry about it unless the coach has the right pedigree to know what to change and what to leave alone. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2017 : 15:34:30
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Welcome to the world of HS baseball. Not all coaches take this approach but many will.
CaCO3 has your son entered 9 grade yet? I hope you have a different experience than some of the parents I know or knew that were not so lucky.
Yes, he's on the high school team AND had a conversation with the coach about his swing mechanics. The coach actually explained what he saw in my sons swing, what he wanted changed, and what he hoped it would do. I believe most folks would call that coaching.
That is good to hear. With that kind of coaching it should be a great experience. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2017 : 07:48:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
If it was me and I trusted the hitting coach he has been using in Travel, I would tell my son to shake his head yes and keep doing what his hitting travel coach has been telling him.
This^^^
I have told my kid this many times. Nod your head, give it a try, then just do what feels comfortable. I think this may be an ego thing. If you sample 10 different coaches, they likely all tell you different things regarding swing mechanics.
My kid has not made it to high school yet, but he has taken hitting lessons on and off for 6 years. His swing has evolved over time to where it is today. I don't believe in making major changes to suite some preference. Everybody's swing and pitching motion as well is different. I hate when people decide to tinker with those things. They take what a player has done successfully and start screwing with it. I can understand if they player is not producing or struggling. However, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
The thing is "What ain't broke" for a 70mph pitch WILL be broke for an 85 mph pitch. The good coaches aren't just looking for what works right now, they are looking for little tweaks to make the swing more long term friendly as your son progresses with the sport.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2017 : 07:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
Welcome to the world of HS baseball. Not all coaches take this approach but many will.
CaCO3 has your son entered 9 grade yet? I hope you have a different experience than some of the parents I know or knew that were not so lucky.
Yes, he's on the high school team AND had a conversation with the coach about his swing mechanics. The coach actually explained what he saw in my sons swing, what he wanted changed, and what he hoped it would do. I believe most folks would call that coaching.
That is good to hear. With that kind of coaching it should be a great experience.
It's a really good program, so far he's enjoying it immensely. He's getting in more baseball in a week than most Travel Programs do in a month. He's on cloud nine. |
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IBABASEBALL
45 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2017 : 10:09:29
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quote:
Yes, he's on the high school team AND had a conversation with the coach about his swing mechanics. The coach actually explained what he saw in my sons swing, what he wanted changed, and what he hoped it would do. I believe most folks would call that coaching.
If you don't mind what did the coach say he saw in the swing or wanted to change? Just wondering. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2017 : 15:26:10
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quote:
Originally posted by IBABASEBALL
quote:
Yes, he's on the high school team AND had a conversation with the coach about his swing mechanics. The coach actually explained what he saw in my sons swing, what he wanted changed, and what he hoped it would do. I believe most folks would call that coaching.
If you don't mind what did the coach say he saw in the swing or wanted to change? Just wondering.
When he was loading he was turning his back/butt to the pitcher too much. He wanted him to use a more subtle loading, takes less time, which makes total sense. |
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Highlight
16 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2017 : 15:32:27
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We had a similar situation. Leading up to my sons first year of school ball he hit for a high avg, high obp and had a handful of homeruns during his 11u season playing mostly TC and a few PG tournaments. My son has hit with the same hitting coach for over 4 years once a week like clockwork. He makes his middle school team and the coach proceeds to try to change everything he's worked hard to try to perfect. My son came home after one of the first practices and told me the same thing, that he wanted to change everything in his swing.
I try to teach my son respect but know you're right when you're right. My advice to him was to try to handle it himself first by speaking with the coach after practice and letting him know he hits with a hitting coach and the swing that he has developed is what is most comfortable to him. It tells the coach I understand what you're saying, i respect what you're saying, but i have the right to disagree and be comfortable at the plate. After doing so, he let him go and 3 games into the season he was our starting catcher ahead of 2 eight graders and was invited over the winter to workout with the rising 8th & 9th graders. (Not sure what I would have done had that not worked. I don't really care to be the parent that has anything to say to a coach other than showing my appreciation for their time.)
It never was an issue after that and he went on to hit for a higher avg, higher obp, and doubled his homerun totals in 12u this past summer. |
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Opinons from parents of older players....
