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jalex
25 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2012 : 15:29:39
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| ok excoach12, your are correct. I will try to be more objective. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2012 : 09:47:24
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BASE: i would agree with this and about rec parks making money too .
Yea it may be under a city program but they didnt spend the money to create that field just to sit empty or even just only cover their costs : who is naive enough to think that ??
Same with ecb and 643 and so what cuz when did starting a business to make profits become illegal ??
Tend to agree on relative talent comparison : more is not always better
quote:
Originally posted by baseball1
My son played at EC for 4 years I coached 2 of those years so have been to their meetings re organization ,$$ , etc... they are a business and make no excuses about it ,they run a good business IMO and I have not ever known of them misleading anyone about any $$ involved to be a part of their program. I don't know of any major programs that do not operate for profits , that would include the recreational parks as well who are under city and county programs . ECB clearly puts $$ back into the facility for improvements and upkeep ... Coaching at 643 is more an on the same page development program rather than the independent operating teams at EC . With exception of the Astros the average talent level per team is higher at 643 as EC has so many teams at each age group and the level of teams spans wide .
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 09:14:07
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I can't verify if ECB Teams are only getting 1 field practice a week, but I know if you want to do a travel team at ECB you better have another field you can access besides the ones there. Whether it be a school playground, large parking lot or big pasture, you need one. Not uncommon even at local rec parks, travel teams usually take a back seat to the rec teams as far as field times. Anyone remember years ago the long lines and waiting lists to even get a kid in a baseball program around the east cobb area.
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 10:31:11
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[quote]Originally posted by bballguy
Word is that the younger ECB teams getting 1 practice time a week on the fields. Is this true?
This is what I also heard. This is why the younger teams are not at the level they should be. How can you be above average when you cant practice? Think the older ECB kids only get one feild day a week? Some of our friends team get three field days a week. Guess which team will develope? Dont understand but know why. |
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 14:54:56
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| A friend confirmed that in the month of Feb. they have field time twice a week and cage the third. After that maybe one field day starting in Mar. |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 15:50:57
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ECB has 40+ teams up through 13u age group. With that, most teams have another field outside of ECB where they can practice.
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 09:25:01
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| Better find another field, at ECB you hardly ever get to practice on the ECB fields. |
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injunchief2
76 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 21:56:35
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Guys,
I tired of this post ... here's the basic differences
ECB brings in a ton of money to the area .... 643 doesn't.
ECB allows other than "elite" players to follow their dream ... 643 doesn't.
Sorry, but these are the facts. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:55:57
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quote:
Originally posted by injunchief2
Guys,
I tired of this post ... here's the basic differences
ECB brings in a ton of money to the area .... 643 doesn't.
ECB allows other than "elite" players to follow their dream ... 643 doesn't.
Sorry, but these are the facts.
Uh, I'd say it's a little more than that injun. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:04:45
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WOW... ECB may bring in more money than 643 but you can't say 643 doesn't bring in any money. ECB does allow non elite players to play and 643 certainly does too, they just don't have as many teams over there for AA and AAA ball players. Most of the 643 teams play a major schedule. The differences are much more than the above. 643 is
smaller so you get more instruction as a whole per player. At ECB if you can fill out a form you can coach, 643 heads looks deep into the personalities and coaching philosophies of their coaches and makes sure they fit into their model, if they find out the don't they will not be allowed to coach the next season. Both are great places to play and there will always be happy and unhappy parents at both facilities. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 10:08:37
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| 643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching. |
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AA17Dad
211 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 11:34:54
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quote:
Originally posted by injunchief2
Guys,
I tired of this post ... here's the basic differences
ECB brings in a ton of money to the area .... 643 doesn't.
ECB allows other than "elite" players to follow their dream ... 643 doesn't.
Sorry, but these are the facts.
Wow...very narrow perspective and factually untrue. |
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AA17Dad
211 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 11:37:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching.
Also untrue....ECB does have "Sponsered" "Major" 14U teams with Dads of players not only coaching but Head Coaching. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 13:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
643 still has Dad's coaching with their kids playing at the older ages...not much different than ECB at younger ages....however, at 14U and up...the elites teams at ECB have paid coaches WITHOUT Dads coaching.
Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 16:10:21
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ECB and 6-4-3 started at different times, with different variables, with different intentions.
ECB was started in the 80's. Travel was non-existant and Guerry was looking to build an option where kids could be challenged and increase their abilities to get college scholarships.
For those who have not read it, below is a link to an article that was done back in July 2005 on East Cobb. It talks a lot about the history.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4rhwbA4n1Z1ZTI5MGQ5OTUtMTU5Yi00MThiLTgyY2EtODIwN2U5MmUyYjdl
Danny started 6-4-3 a few years ago using his knowledge he gained from coaching the 14U Astros at EC (I don't mean coaching knowledge, I mean knowledge of how things work with a travel organization. He has a lot more coaching experience than just the 14U Astros).
From the outside looking in, he seemed to have believed that developing core fundamentals needed to be the base of his organization. The rest would take care of itself.
His development model seems to have been to develop a smaller number of teams, with good fundamentals, and expand outward. Hence the reason he only has a couple teams at each age group.
East Cobb paved the way for the other organizations to learn from and develop their models without the "learn as you go" methodology. I would ague that all the leadership at EC would love to snap their fingers and have a quality set of coaches for every team in all age groups. Unfortunately that is harder said than done with the number of teams they have. If they were to say "Ok, we are no longer going to allow teams to play out of EC without validating that they have qualified coaches." Now you have about 400 kids looking for somewhere else to play.
You can say "EC would never do that because they don't want to lose the money those teams pay to play there." I would argue the first reason they would not do it is because that would put 400 kids trying to find somewhere else to play.
I think everyone has to find the right place for their kid to play regardless of what they think about any organization. Do your research and know why you are playing with a certain organization or team. Many people are playing on teams because they like playing for a certain coach, or with a certain set of friends. Some are playing on a team because they think it is the best option to get them to where they are going. The good thing is, around here, there are a wide variety of options available. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 17:11:24
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Good post Doc. My son played on 2 other teams before playing for 643 starting at 17u. Both were independent teams. He played from 12 thru 14 for a local rec travel team out of Roswell. We had great coaches, the kids learned a lot and we were very competitive. At 14, we made it either to the finals or semi-finals of 7 tournaments in a row, winning one. And they were all major tournaments. At 15 & 16 he was with a team out of Cumming coached by a former ECB coach. It was an independent team, and a very good one. My point is that you don't have to play at ECB or 643 or any other big name organization to get good coaching and play for a quality team. My son got a scholarship to play for a top 10 D2 school next year. He didn't play travel till the 12u age group. He didn't play for ECB, he didn't play for 643 until he was 17 and a junior in HS. He just worked at his craft, got good coaching from a group of dads until 14 and played with a group of guys he liked.
I applaud ECB for what they did to get travel baseball on the map here in Georgia. This is seen as one of the top hotbeds for baseball talent in the country largely because of ECB. Without it, baseball would not be where it is today here. I also applaud 643 for their approach and what they want their organization to be. I think their motives are pure and what they want is to prepare kids for the next level the right way - by emphasising fundamentals and making sure the kids have fun. I also applaud all the other organizations out there and all the independent teams out there for the hard work they put in to develop kids. Are all of them good? No. Are all of them a good fit for your player? No. But, by and large, they are all trying to provide something for the kids on their team and help the kids. Find what's right for you and your son and go with it - regardless of program name or the status symbol of the team you are on. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 18:54:38
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quote:
[i]
Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team.
Not so fast...i can name several kids of coaches on their 15U squad today. I agree that at 15U and up at EC it's paid...my bad on that one. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 19:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
quote:
[i]
Ages 15 and up at 643 are all paid coaches with no kids on the team.
Not so fast...i can name several kids of coaches on their 15U squad today. I agree that at 15U and up at EC it's paid...my bad on that one.
Not that I'm aware of at 15 and up at 643. I guess I could be wrong. I know there was at least one ECB team with a dad coaching a 17u team last year. EC Astros 17u had a dad coaching. Granted, he was probably paid and he is the coach of a HS team, but he still had a kid on the team. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 21:09:56
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Omg. I get so sick of people spouting off about things they have no idea about.
Dad head coach last year at ECB in 15u will be Dad head coach this year for 16u. He's awesome too.
Why are you guys wasting your time trying to one up each other or claim king of all knowledge. Wouldnt YOUR time be better spent trying to help YOUR son become a better player?! |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2012 : 22:28:56
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Ok rippit. No one has any idea what they are talking about.
And BTW, I just remembered. There was a 15 yr old 643 team last year that had a coach with his kid on the team. This guy is their 15 year old coach. He was before his kid was on the team and will be now that his kid is on the 16 yr old team. My bad.
And for the record, I'm not putting down dad coaches. Read my post a couple posts ago. Without dad coaches, especially at the younger ages, there would be no baseball available for probably around 80% of the kids out there. Keep it up dads. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 00:40:30
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I think either 4 or 5 of the ECB 16U teams have dad coaches.
A large number of other 16U teams have dad coaches.
I know first hand that there is not a large pool of qualified paid travel coaches out there.
It would be interesting to figure out how many 16U teams there would be without dad coaches. Probably 1/3 fewer.
How is that relevant to this thread? |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 09:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
I think either 4 or 5 of the ECB 16U teams have dad coaches.
A large number of other 16U teams have dad coaches.
I know first hand that there is not a large pool of qualified paid travel coaches out there.
It would be interesting to figure out how many 16U teams there would be without dad coaches. Probably 1/3 fewer.
How is that relevant to this thread?
STAR: I think the number 16U dad coaches are VERY relevant to the number of teams
After the Astros and maybe Titans it drops off clearly on player and team talent - so how important it really is to have the pro paid coaches for all teams
Yea there is an opportunity for east cobb to get the Dad coaches and bring in more money and there is opportunity for those coaches to get out of it what they want too despite many cases of not being a true baseball coach.
But then look at the low low percentage of 16U kids who ever make it to a college and I say whats the problem with a large program that makes big money by giving teens a chance to keep playing baseball for a few more years
I would guess that the strength and ranking of these teams is a LOT more important to Dads and in some cases Moms than it is tho the 16uS themselves. |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 14:43:17
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| Sure is a lot of one-upping going on. Both 15U teams at 643 have dad coaches. Both the A team and the B team. For 15U at ECB most are paid coaches. I think 4 of the 12 are Dad coaches. |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 19:03:29
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| My son plays on a summer 16u team at ECB and it isn’t the Astros or Titians. He has a paid coach that plays college baseball and then coaches in the summer. The reason my son decided to play with this team is he really liked his coach and felt that he was relevant to him. I’m telling you this young coach has his head on right and is working to improve these 16 year old young men. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 09:06:22
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| Organization means very little compared to finding a coach that knows what he is doing and one that your son enjoys playing for. In school ball you may not have the luxury of shopping around for a coach. |
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Topic |
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6-4-3 DP Academy vs ECB
