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GeorgiaPeach
26 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2012 : 14:55:54
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| One day, someone will write a book titled "The Dark Side of East Cobb Baseball". Anything and everything goes on at this place. Having played at both parks, there is no comparison. Danny Pralgo is as ethical as they come. Best baseball man I have ever been around. Danny coached at East Cobb. Ever wonder why he left???? Danny is all about getting his kids to the next level, but in a moral and ethical manner. Every time I enter and leave the park at East Cobb, I feel dirty. Not trying to be sarcastic, just speaking the truth based on having played at both parks. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 15:07:19
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Here is my view of the difference. With 643, they are developing what I would call a "program". I say that because all their coaches are hand picked. All their coaches are involved in multiple age groups. All their coaches are overseen by Danny Pralgo. Below the 15u age group, there are dad coaches, but, there are also paid coaches. Those paid coaches teach all age groups. At 15u and up, all coaches are paid coaches. All practices are for the 15, 16, 17 and 18 yr. old teams combined and all coaches attend. This means that they are all on the same page. I have found that all coaches will respond to emails or phone calls. Danny, although he has the 17u team, will respond to anyone's inquiries and questions. This is what I mean by a "program". The teaching and coaching philosophy is consistent all the way up the ladder. 643 has, at most 3 teams in an age group. Part of the reason for this is because they don't want to water down the talent pool AND they don't want to water down the coaching. They won't add a team unless they can get a good, quality coach to work with the kids.
At ECB, each team is an entity unto itself. The type and amount of coaching you receive will depend entirely on the coach you have. You may get a coach that is great and you may get a coach that is horrible. I will not deny that ECB has an unbelievable reputation. For their older age groups, the top teams are unparrelled. Scouts come out to see the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees, because they are the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees. And it is well deserved. Those teams attract the best talent, literally, from around the country. I think the baseball community is realizing that the "regular" teams below them are no better than other local teams.
True, ECB has a ton of scouts at the ECB complex during the PG events. Part of that is because there are 3 fields in one place to watch kids. A big part of it is because that where the Astros, Braves and Yankees play all their games. I will say this. At this year's 17 and 18 PG events, there were no less than around 20 scouts at every game 643 played at the 643 complex. I have not seen that many scouts at any other field other than ECB. So 643 is attracting their share of attention.
I will also say that Danny still works his regular job. He's not making his living totally off of 643. I think his main purpose is to create the best baseball "program" out there. |
Edited by - bballman on 01/20/2012 15:09:55 |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 15:12:52
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quote:
Originally posted by baseball papa
Both places have excellent coaching and although there are different philosophies on how to develop a player's potential they both do an excellent job of what they do. A lot of it will depend on what you are looking for but I can promise that if these are the only 2 programs you are looking at then it will be hard for you to make a mistake.
Can you be more specific, Papa? How are their philosophies different?
We're not just looking at those 2 programs, but there's so much talk about them that I'd like to hear more about their different approaches. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 15:19:55
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Here is my view of the difference. With 643, they are developing what I would call a "program". I say that because all their coaches are hand picked. All their coaches are involved in multiple age groups. All their coaches are overseen by Danny Pralgo. Below the 15u age group, there are dad coaches, but, there are also paid coaches. Those paid coaches teach all age groups. At 15u and up, all coaches are paid coaches. All practices are for the 15, 16, 17 and 18 yr. old teams combined and all coaches attend. This means that they are all on the same page. I have found that all coaches will respond to emails or phone calls. Danny, although he has the 17u team, will respond to anyone's inquiries and questions. This is what I mean by a "program". The teaching and coaching philosophy is consistent all the way up the ladder.
Thanks, bballman. That helps a lot. Now, how is that different than, say, what the guys with Black Knights Baseball Academy (and the ECB Black Knights) are doing? Or Chance Beam with the ECB Titans? It seems like maybe subgroups within ECB are doing something similar to what Danny Pralgo is doing. Is that right? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 16:01:56
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| I know the 16u ECB Titans have a very good team. They are the #2 16u team at ECB. I have heard very good things about them and they win. I think all the Titans teams have a pretty good reputation. Not sure how they stack up with the 16u Titans though. Don't know anything about the Black Knights Baseball Academy and have never heard of the ECB Black Knights. Either way, all these teams within ECB fall under the same thing I talked about earlier. Within ECB, there are some very good coaches. If you can find one, nothing wrong with that. My points were more about the organizations as a whole. I think if you choose 643, you will get good coaching and good communication regardless of the team you are on. If you go into ECB without doing your homework on the specific team, or coach to be more concise, it will be a crapshoot. As I said, each team is an entity unto itself at ECB. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 16:26:59
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Mom,
Think of it like comparing a Chik-fil-a (6-4-3) franchise with a KFC (ECB) franchise.
Chik-fil-a takes a heavy hand in selecting each person who will be able to own a franchise. They execute against strict guidelines and as such, you'll see a great deal of consistency and high standard throughout. All of the morals and philosophy of the Truett family is upheld throughout all their restaurants.
KFC issues the franchise and dictates the general concept, but then much is left to the individual owners from there. Some are modern and maintained nicely and others show their age and get a bit shabby. The food is pretty much the same, but he opportunity to get a bad bucket of chicken is a bit higher and you may not get much satisfaction with the customer service when you do.
Likewise, Pralgo selects the coaches and is heavy handed in each team. You'll see single practices with as many as 4-5 different age groups on the field at once and a dozen of the coaches all on the field working with them. Very consistent philosophy and structure. There is also the expectation that you'll toe the company line as a coach and team or find yourself unwelcome. ECB allows a coach to run each of their teams pretty much as they see fit. You'll see everything from Daddy ball to very well run teams. ECB leadership doesn't take much hand in what happens after the teams form except to ensure that they collect player dues for any player there.
Neither is perfect and which one is best for you depends on you and your personal preference.
In a nutshell, that's the difference between the two. As you mention, what the Knights do can be 180 degrees from what the Titans do. One team can make a commitment to only play with their players and the other may choose to pickup 2 or 3 kids each tourney. One may choose to cut kids at any point along the way while the other may not. It ends up being the feel, flavor and rules of each individual coach.
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Here is my view of the difference. With 643, they are developing what I would call a "program". I say that because all their coaches are hand picked. All their coaches are involved in multiple age groups. All their coaches are overseen by Danny Pralgo. Below the 15u age group, there are dad coaches, but, there are also paid coaches. Those paid coaches teach all age groups. At 15u and up, all coaches are paid coaches. All practices are for the 15, 16, 17 and 18 yr. old teams combined and all coaches attend. This means that they are all on the same page. I have found that all coaches will respond to emails or phone calls. Danny, although he has the 17u team, will respond to anyone's inquiries and questions. This is what I mean by a "program". The teaching and coaching philosophy is consistent all the way up the ladder.
Thanks, bballman. That helps a lot. Now, how is that different than, say, what the guys with Black Knights Baseball Academy (and the ECB Black Knights) are doing? Or Chance Beam with the ECB Titans? It seems like maybe subgroups within ECB are doing something similar to what Danny Pralgo is doing. Is that right?
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Edited by - in_the_know on 01/20/2012 19:12:36 |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 16:37:06
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Well, I probably know very little about them myself, but, from what I understand, the Black Knights have travel teams in multiple age groups that play out of ECB, but they all operate under the Black Knights Baseball Academy umbrella. They have their own indoor facility and some professional coaching. Here's their website:
http://www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=bkba
It sounds similar to what Danny Pralgo started with 6-4-3 a few years ago.
As for the ECB Titans, my understanding (again, very rudimentary) is that all the teams are "owned" by Chance Beam, who plays a large part in all of their instruction, but is head coach of the 16U team. I assume he handpicks all the other head coaches. The teams also often practice together and have one website:
http://www.ectitans.com/
This is what I meant by subgroups within ECB that seem to resemble 6-4-3 in their approach. |
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Triple
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 17:10:45
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| Seems to me that there is a lot of truth in everything written here. ECB has their elite teams. Some of the teams are more "group" managed. All are fairly individual. Some are nothing more than daddy ball. 643 has the group workout for the older groups, but so do many of the ECB teams. 643 has a lot of followers that over the top about them, probably some that couldn't get in at ECB or didn't have the best experience. But they have a lot of the same problems that people complain about when bashing ECB. Not returning calls or giving feedback after tryouts, preset teams, etc. They have done a lot with the vacant fields they took over, there are just not as many as there are at ECB. There is a lot of similarities. 643 is still hungry and making a name for themselves. ECB just is and now finding themselves in a position of having to hold their ground. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 20:24:36
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Here is my view of the difference. With 643, they are developing what I would call a "program". I say that because all their coaches are hand picked. All their coaches are involved in multiple age groups. All their coaches are overseen by Danny Pralgo. Below the 15u age group, there are dad coaches, but, there are also paid coaches. Those paid coaches teach all age groups. At 15u and up, all coaches are paid coaches. All practices are for the 15, 16, 17 and 18 yr. old teams combined and all coaches attend. This means that they are all on the same page. I have found that all coaches will respond to emails or phone calls. Danny, although he has the 17u team, will respond to anyone's inquiries and questions. This is what I mean by a "program". The teaching and coaching philosophy is consistent all the way up the ladder. 643 has, at most 3 teams in an age group. Part of the reason for this is because they don't want to water down the talent pool AND they don't want to water down the coaching. They won't add a team unless they can get a good, quality coach to work with the kids.
At ECB, each team is an entity unto itself. The type and amount of coaching you receive will depend entirely on the coach you have. You may get a coach that is great and you may get a coach that is horrible. I will not deny that ECB has an unbelievable reputation. For their older age groups, the top teams are unparrelled. Scouts come out to see the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees, because they are the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees. And it is well deserved. Those teams attract the best talent, literally, from around the country. I think the baseball community is realizing that the "regular" teams below them are no better than other local teams.
True, ECB has a ton of scouts at the ECB complex during the PG events. Part of that is because there are 3 fields in one place to watch kids. A big part of it is because that where the Astros, Braves and Yankees play all their games. I will say this. At this year's 17 and 18 PG events, there were no less than around 20 scouts at every game 643 played at the 643 complex. I have not seen that many scouts at any other field other than ECB. So 643 is attracting their share of attention.
I will also say that Danny still works his regular job. He's not making his living totally off of 643. I think his main purpose is to create the best baseball "program" out there.
BBALL: my sons have not played on any east cobb teams and wont ever cuz we don't live close .
They have played in tournaments there and against other teams of east cobb at a variety of parks local .
You are correct that after the Astros and in some ages the Titans the talent level drops off its easy to see and thats all the teams 12s all the way through 18s
Dont know Pralgo but we heard 643 was a group that teaches and with east cobb its like some guys are coaching so there can be another team for there park
Another team also mean more openings for kids to play baseball who otherwise after Astros and Titans they wouldn't be there : Gotta give east cobb credit for that too !
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 20:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Think of it like comparing a Chik-fil-a (6-4-3) franchise with a KFC (ECB) franchise.
Thanks, in_the_know, that is such a helpful comparison. I think I understand now. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 21:50:33
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| East Cobb is completely different than when I was in HS....There used to be two maybe three teams per age group and all three teams could compete with anyone and were extremely successful. I think they changed the strategy and began to just add as many teams as possible, kind of waters down the brand IMO. My nephew plays at EC and it is frustrating the lack of field time allowed to the teams, it would be different if they didn't expand to 12 teams per age group. 6-4-3 charges for tryouts and has paid coaches like many EC teams do and I don't really see a lot of difference between the two except for size. 6-4-3 doesn't have the size yet to have as many teams per age group but they do have kids who might not make a particular team if money weren't a factor, also they have the same politics the other organizations have. Find a coach you like and make a decision, by doing the research you are doing you are much less likely to make a bad decision. |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 01/20/2012 22:05:10 |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 21:56:07
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I would agree with just about every post here. Pralgo is indeed a great guy and a class act.
ECB started this party, and their top 2 teams at each age level are always high level teams.
It does seem, however, that ECB is in danger of diluting its brand to the point where the program's value becomes diminished. I suppose it more than pays the bills, but 6, 8, 10 teams to an age group will always produce several weak teams that really hurt the ECB appeal. |
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2012 : 10:09:32
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| The older age groups at East Cobb appear to be well coached and most of the older East Cobb teams can compete with any team including the other higher ranked teams at East Cobb. From reading the posts it appears that most of us agree that the major difference comes with the younger groups and the appeal of the allmighty dollar. It appears that if you have a warm body and a pulse that you can find a younger team to play on at East Cobb that you can get on. If you get lucky and get the right coach you will think that you made a great decision but if get unlucky and get the wrong coach you will think you have entered the youth baseball twilight zone. I respect Danny Pralgo and his organization and I love to see him share his passion for the game with every kid he comes in contact with. This in itself is worth the price of admission if you ask me. So Newbie Baseball Mom I guess the answer you are looking for is that most feel that the younger groups at East Cobb are filled with more and more teams (somtimes 10-12) in one age group that severely limits field availability and how can you get better if you can't practice. And with this many teams any Coach that has not been pronounced dead or brain damaged can take a team and all that is required is a entry fee form and of course the all important check for the East Cobb fees. I have heard that 643 has had several opportunities to add other teams but that if wasn't allowed because the right coach could not be located at the time. You are also right in that some coaches take existing teams that have never been associated with East Cobb and join East Cobb essentially paying for the EC name hoping that it will give their team instant recognition but that concept might also be backfiring. Only time will tell and while we are on subject what was the final decision on Perfect Game and the giant baseball/soccer complex in Bartow County. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2012 : 13:32:43
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any Coach that has not been pronounced dead or brain damaged can take a team
hehe Papa you a funny man 
quote:
Originally posted by baseball papa
The older age groups at East Cobb appear to be well coached and most of the older East Cobb teams can compete with any team including the other higher ranked teams at East Cobb. From reading the posts it appears that most of us agree that the major difference comes with the younger groups and the appeal of the allmighty dollar. It appears that if you have a warm body and a pulse that you can find a younger team to play on at East Cobb that you can get on. If you get lucky and get the right coach you will think that you made a great decision but if get unlucky and get the wrong coach you will think you have entered the youth baseball twilight zone. I respect Danny Pralgo and his organization and I love to see him share his passion for the game with every kid he comes in contact with. This in itself is worth the price of admission if you ask me. So Newbie Baseball Mom I guess the answer you are looking for is that most feel that the younger groups at East Cobb are filled with more and more teams (somtimes 10-12) in one age group that severely limits field availability and how can you get better if you can't practice. And with this many teams any Coach that has not been pronounced dead or brain damaged can take a team and all that is required is a entry fee form and of course the all important check for the East Cobb fees. I have heard that 643 has had several opportunities to add other teams but that if wasn't allowed because the right coach could not be located at the time. You are also right in that some coaches take existing teams that have never been associated with East Cobb and join East Cobb essentially paying for the EC name hoping that it will give their team instant recognition but that concept might also be backfiring. Only time will tell and while we are on subject what was the final decision on Perfect Game and the giant baseball/soccer complex in Bartow County.
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2012 : 16:40:59
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| 643 appears to me to have more uniformity accross all their age groups as it relates to the organization's player development and coaching. That may be because they have fewer teams in each age group. ECB has a lot more teams in each age group, which I believe is fine. You need multiple class teams in each age group b/c players of the same age develop at different rates. That approach serves an organization well if the goal is to get the best players in an age group on 1 team. Unfortunately that system also creates all the drama that has nothing to do with what happens on the field. If ECB has a uniform player development philosophy, I have not seen it anywhere, but would like to. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2012 : 22:39:30
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| Both programs have a lot more in common then either side would like to admit. I.e. large rosters, expensive, and over rated. Save your money and find an affordable team where your son can actually get on the field and have a field he can practice on for more than an hour a week. |
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ecb11
31 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2012 : 07:30:35
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I find this post most interesting. I have two sons that grew up playing at ECB. Both went on to play college baseball. I now have a grandson at ECB. So I am an old timer here. I have posted a few comments on the 10U board. The questions is what are you looking for? My daughter saw her brothers have success at ECB and believes her son needs to be there. My opinion is that ECB is not what it used to be. Several quality coaches have left. Danny Pralgo is everything that has been mentioned here and then some. Another on the north side of town is Ron Landy and the Georgia Hurricanes. Danny and Ron coached at ECB at the same time, both left, both have 'independent' teams and both enjoy great success. Watching these guys, you will see an emphasis on fundamentals and the approach to the game. ECB is larger, however if looking at 'numbers' (isn't baseball all about the stats?) both Pralgo and Landy have a higher percentage of former players playing college baseball and / or Pro ball than ECB.
6-4-3 is in Smyrna, Hurricanes are in North Fulton, both offer great alternatives to ECB. ECB has loads of quality teams and coaches, this is not meant as disparaging towards the ECB program or what Guerry has built. There are just 'old' , yet new guys doing it the way that ECB built it years ago but got away from. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2012 : 13:33:49
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| I totally agree with b ball man. If you know anything about EC each team is its own team. There is no dictator pulling the puppet strings of each coach. If you had a bad experience it was solely because of you or the coach you had, not EC. Each teams cost per player is dictated by each teams individual budget. 643 is a class organization as well. It's every kids right to choose wherever they want to play. |
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HardBaller
101 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2012 : 19:07:52
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Having played for 643 and now several teams at ECB I'll describe the experience much like what has already been stated.
643 was more of a uniform program. That's to say because the fundemantals that are developed through drill work are done at each practice at every age group, a player could step in at any practice at any age group and and know what to do. And players are able to do so through out the season. The drill work is what develops better playing skills and the teaching that is imparted by all the coaches on the field at each practice builds baseball acumen.
Conversley, at ECB I felt as if the skill that my son brought to the team was used to execute a game plan the coach wanted to employ. I always felt that it was encumbent upon me to build skill and baseball acumen through personal instruction outside of the ECB program.
643 is committed to the player, his development, and playing time for the year you make the team. At ECB all bets are off! If your son is perceived as not getting it done on the field, I have seen where they'll bring in other players at the expense of your son's playing time; that's the way it is. The excecption is the coaches son's also known as "daddy ball".
643 really moves kids around and allows them to experience, develope, make mistakes, learn and grow at a number of positions.
ECB pretty much brings kids in to play particular positions and there is not much movement with a view to player development but more to putting a winning team on the field. |
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2012 : 20:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
I totally agree with b ball man. If you know anything about EC each team is its own team. There is no dictator pulling the puppet strings of each coach. If you had a bad experience it was solely because of you or the coach you had, not EC. Each teams cost per player is dictated by each teams individual budget. 643 is a class organization as well. It's every kids right to choose wherever they want to play.
You said it. It seems you heard of that situation. They dont have anything nice to say about Acworth either which has an excellent program. An organization has the right not to pick a kid because of the parent.
Ecb11 you are right but you are not the only oldster here. The thing that is different from back in the day is expenses and parents. They are both out of control. We have been at both organizations. They both are great. If you have a child that can compete for 643/ECB thats great. If you are realistic about your childs talents and cant play at the major level ECB has AA/AAA teams and can offer a great experience for your child. Problem is parents over rate themselves and the childs abilities and become an issue to the team. Coaches will talk and that parent shot themselves in the foot with not only that organization but other organizations. We are lucky to live in an area that has so many good organizations to choose from. Just have fun.
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Edited by - neverquit on 01/23/2012 09:41:23 |
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Steel-Will
278 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2012 : 07:34:03
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I agree 100% with ECB11.
I would only add the 643's structure allows players to interact with coaches that coach other 643 teams. It gives players a chance to hear a different way of communicating the same principals and instruction.
Additionally, younger players practice with older 643 players and get to see how things are supposed to look on the field when done correctly. This proved to be invaluable and a big confidence booster for younger players.
Lastly, in all frankness, there were less "screamers" at 643. |
Edited by - Steel-Will on 01/23/2012 09:41:50 |
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jalex
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2012 : 10:54:30
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| Comparing 643 program to ECB at this point is silly. How many number one draft picks, how many x - pros trust their kids with 643. I am pretty sure Mr Baldwin got a little more pull than Mr pralgo. I am pretty sure a lot more scholarships to d1 and below comin out of ECB. Frankly, I do not understand the comparison. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2012 : 12:42:32
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| I have no experience with either of these facilities. Based on the comments, it seems that 643 would be a better place to be trained at the younger ages, then tryout for the top ECB teams in high school to be recruited??? |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2012 : 20:47:33
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643 and ECB are perfect examples of what is great about travel ball and our country in general. Everyone has a choice where they play and are free to make the choices that best fit their sons' needs.
Both of these organizations do a great job of developing players in my opinion but I think 643 does a better job when the kids are younger (11u and under). Both also do a great job of getting their players exposure but I think ECB has an edge there because 643 is still a very young organization. I personally have taken my boys to Danny and Ryan at 643 for lessons because they are absolutely two of the best I've seen.
Bottom line, it would be a privilege to have my sons play for either organization. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2012 : 08:13:59
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quote:
Originally posted by wareagle
I have no experience with either of these facilities. Based on the comments, it seems that 643 would be a better place to be trained at the younger ages, then tryout for the top ECB teams in high school to be recruited???
That may be true if your son can play on the 16 Astros or the 17 Braves. Not just be on the team, but actually play for them. Other than that, take your pick. I know Danny works his behind off to get his kids seen. He talks to coaches, arranges workouts for coaches, sets up showcases at various colleges, etc. I you just mention something to him about a school you are interested in, or has shown interest in you, he will be on the phone with them trying to work something out. He really works hard.
I'm not saying the coaches at ECB don't do that. I'm also not saying other organizations don't do that kind of thing for their players. We're talking about ECB vs. 643. You play on the 16 Astros or 17 Braves, scouts come to see the team because of who they are. I think 643 isn't quite there yet for that recognition. I think they are getting there. As I said in an earlier post, there were 15-20 scouts at every game 643 played in at the 643 field in the PG events last year. That is a pretty significant number. I also believe Danny will work harder to get his kids places to play because he is playing catch up to ECB and the more kids he helps find spots for, the more his reputation grows. |
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6-4-3 DP Academy vs ECB
