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stinger
120 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2009 : 09:07:33
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Has ECB lost it's luster? Is there a new kid on the block ready to topple the giant?
For those of you above the now 11u level, you're probably thinking I'm crazy. For those of you new to travel ball, you're still trying to figure out what ECB exactly is. Well let me share my perspective on the shift that is coming.
There is no doubt that ECB is the king of the mountain in travel ball. Not only in Georgia, but throughout the southeast and across much of the nation, people in the travel baseball world know East Cobb Baseball. You don't have to look any further than yesterday's AJC to read about ECB's dominance in travel ball. Parents have shelled out a lot of money to get their kids attached to the ECB brand and have proudly displayed their ECB caps, shirts and car magnets around ballparks across Georgia. In return, those kids have gotten to play at some of the best ballfields in America, supremely manicured and expertly designed. At the older levels, they get to play for some great coaches to help them enhance their skills and they hope that this brand will help their kids get a scholarship, or even better, get drafted.
In 2008, a little team called the 6-4-3 DP Cougars showed up at the 9u level and started winning a bunch of ball games. Wearing their funny flat-billed caps and covered in dirt, a group of over-reaching kids starting beating some of the best in Georgia. Sure, 6-4-3 also fielded teams at other age groups but they didn't have the same success as this 9u "little-team-that-could". Word starting spreading that the next Tommy Lasorda had left ECB and started his own Academy and Danny Pralgo's name became synonymous with Travel Baseball for 9u in Atlanta overnight. By the time the 2008 season was over, 6-4-3 had equaled itself with the ECB brand at this age group. In one year, 6-4-3 accomplished at this level what ECB had taken 20 years to build.
Then try-outs came for the 2009 season. While most of the travel teams in Atlanta were lucky to have 15 players show up, 6-4-3 had 40+ and they paid $75 each for the opportunity to try-out for Coach Pralgo. Danny's breakout idea was a hit and 6-4-3 picked off some of the best from other teams for his 10u team. Could they be the next Bandits? Well, not quite, but close. At Cooperstown, they beat the one team the Bandits couldn't the San Diego Stars, and made it to the finals only to fall to the, guess who, the Bandits . . . again.
At the same time, ECB's brand was becoming a watered down version of it's previous self. While 6-4-3 was keeping one well-coached team at each age group, ECB was adding a bunch of teams under 13u and letting them use their name. The pool got diluted and suddenly teams weren't scared to play teams with the ECB logo anymore.
At 11u, it is no longer important to have the ECB sticker on your car. Perhaps the most interesting comment can be found by last season's ECB Scorpions. If you look on USSSA, you'll notice that it's just "Scorpion Baseball". That's an intriguing change if it sticks.
Tonight it will all become clear. 6-4-3 DP Academy has it's tryouts at All Tournament Players Park for 11u. Tonight, the Academy will raise a lot of money as I expect you'll see 60+ players pay their fee to try to make one of Danny's 11u teams for 2010. Tonight, the 11u ECB teams will likely be looking on with envy as Coach Pralgo will take his ascension to top of the 11u mountain and gets the pick of the litter. And not only will Danny pick 12 from the very best, he also will pick another 12 for his 2nd team . . . the Jaguars.
Will the Jaguars be a "B" team? I'm sure it will be said that the two teams will be equals but that's asking parents to take a big leap of faith. 6-4-3 DP Academy, at the end-of-the-day, is a business, owned and operated by Coach Pralgo. While there is certainly nothing wrong with it, Danny's mortgage is paid by the parents who follow him and he needs a flagship team to market his services. 6-4-3 needs a showcase that can help them recruit players to his Academy at 10u, and 9u, and so on. He needs the best players on a single team to finally beat the Bandits. And he needs to beat the Bandits, so he can become . . . the next ECB.
It will be interesting to see what happens next with 6-4-3. Will kids that don't make the Cougars accept a bid from the Jaguars or look somewhere else? Will Danny spend as much time with the Jaguars as he does his head-lining team or will they only get a passing glance? Don't get me wrong, Danny is a great but there are only so many hours in a day to coach One thing is for sure, 6-4-3 has jumped over ECB at 11u and perhaps at the younger ages as well. The torch had officially been passed. |
Edited by - stinger on 07/20/2009 15:42:04 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 22:06:00
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When my son was 11 none of the ECB teams was that dominant. Good, yes, but not dominant the way the 13 and up teams are.
Will Coach Pralgo stay at ATPP when they move to 12? If not, where will they play/practice out of?
Who is going to coach the younger ages going forward?
Having one elite team at one age group, as good as they are, as hard as that is, isn't exactly displacing the ECB brand. |
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bball2008
100 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 22:20:31
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| 6-4-3DP no doubt had a great season in the 10u division. But I'm not sure you can start chopping down the ECB tree just yet based on one age group. ECB seems to hold a different philosophy in the younger age groups- keep a volume of kids coming into the program early and start developing talent to feed the older age groups when it actually matters. I'm not sure anyone outside of the 6-4-3DP program will remember the accomplishments of this season's 10u team 5 years from now. It also seems 6-4-3DP is now making a run at a similar plan by adding a team in the 11u age group. Before you know it, there will be a third and so on as long as there are kids willing to play, their parents can put up the appropriate funds and there is enough field time to match the number of teams. Pralgo is very respected in this community and he should absolutely try to grow his program. Many kids will benefit from it. |
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knucklecurve
171 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 23:30:36
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| To compete with ECB he needs to carry more age groups. Why didn't he have a 11U age group?? You can't just go on what he has done with one age group. He did a great job with his 10U team, but I don't think he can compete with ECB until he has a bigger program. I do agree with you totally that ECB is becoming very watered down. Way too many teams in all age groups, but people keep coming out year after year. It holds a great reputation. Just go to their website and look at the history and what they have done for so many young boys baseball dreams, whether it be college or some who have made it to the majors. No doubt ECB wins vs 6-4-3 Academy. |
Edited by - knucklecurve on 07/21/2009 08:33:48 |
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pcc
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 00:37:20
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| I agree with most of this article. I don't feel that Danny needs too load one of the teams so that he can beat the Bandits and become the next ECB. He already does it better than ECB. It is not about wins and losses. It is about teaching young men the game of baseball and that is exactly what he is doing. 643 makes a commitment for one year to 12 players and families and he sticks with them throughout the year and doesn't pick up any kids even for Cooperstown. Can the EC teams and Bandits say the same thing about themselves? Is it better to go with the 12 you started out with and actually only took 11 to Cooperstown and get to the finals or to pick up players and win it all? I think 643 doesn't want to be the next ECB. They are already doing it better. Props to you 643 and Coach Pralgo. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 07:30:58
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| They need fields for 13U and above. Heard they may be near 285? Where? |
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Sox
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 08:46:42
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What I just read is CRAZY, 6-4-3 will never be a ECB, NEVER! 6-4-3 can never offer what ECB can, Stop boosting your own ego and wake up, Their are a few other teams that are better than 6-4-3 @ 9U and 10U and not to mention the older levels.Why do you feel you must sell 6-4-3 to all of us, We are not buying. Some teams have try outs and don't charge anything, They just want good players. (10U Sandtown Red Sox,9U Sandtown Angels & 8U Sandtown Red Sox) Everytime I read a post like this I feel the author is disrespecting alot of other teams that in my opinion are better than the team they are talking about. Stop all of this selling and just play the game! The Bandits and the Sandtown Red Sox are park teams.
Tony Douglas
10U Sandtown Red Sox |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by pcc
643 makes a commitment for one year to 12 players and families and he sticks with them throughout the year and doesn't pick up any kids even for Cooperstown. Can the EC teams and Bandits say the same thing about themselves?
Coach Pralgo was already carrying 11 or 12 players and didn't need to pick anyone up for Cooperstown. The Bandits had 10 players to start the season and lost one due to family circumstances, one to an injury leaving them with 8. Cooperstown REQUIRES a roster of at least 11 players. Yes, the Bandits can say that about themselves. They didn't just pick up players for Cooperstown, those 2 player are now permanent members of the Bandits team. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:37:12
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| I'm not into who does it better but the goal at youth travel baseball should be about baseball instruction and life lessons not about wins and losses. With that in mind this is where Pralgo stands above all the rest. The key is as his program gets bigger will the new coaches he brings in be able to follow that mold. I'm sure they are good baseball instructors but there is a difference. I was at one of the games this year when the Bandits were crushing his team and the constant teaching and instruction that was going on and the positive environment in their dugout and amongst their fans were 2nd to none. Yes you could tell they were losing but at the end of the game I could here him teaching and lifting up his kids like nothing i have seen before. Can anyone that has had a kid play for him at one the older age groups chime in as i am curious how he works with the teenagers compared to the younger guys? I am also curious as to anyone that has taken lessons from him what do you think? What did your kid think about taking lessons from the coach of a team you play against all year? |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:54:57
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We've brought Danny Pralgo into our practices a number of times. He's a great instructor and coach and is very humble. He would never suggest what he is doing is better than someone else...it's not in his nature. Comparing one age group to ECB is an apples to oranges comparison. ECB is a program which attracts kids in every age group and not one specific age group. To suggest that one successful team over a two year period is the equivalent or better than an ECB program which fields a myriad of teams in every age group is pointless. This is not to say that ECB is the only place to play and get discovered. There are numerous good programs currently out there and more which are developing and turning out some pretty special ball players. Over the years, ECB has developed a focus on their older age groups ( 15-18 ). However, I believe they have recognized that the revenue which the younger teams generate is very significant and the younger talent is the training ground for the 15-18's.
Is there room for more quality programs...absolutely. Are there some up and coming quality programs...sure. But let's not get crazy and start comparing a program that has been wildly successful like ECB, over a period of +- 20 years with an upstart single team that has enjoyed its' success over the past two seasons. I think you may have the "cart in front of the horse" on this one ! |
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tfb
34 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 10:18:28
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My son has been playing travel ball for years. He loves the game and is very successful.
Once again an adult is turning this great game into an opportunity for self promotion to make themselves feel good. Stinger I am sure your program is very good. With all your chest thumping and grandstanding you are the guy I will avoid at the bar-b-que. Let the kids play, improve their fundamentals, and have FUN. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 10:41:11
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| Funny that you said 3 weeks ago they would not be with the team infact I told everyone they would remain with that team. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 11:06:46
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Too bad Gwinnett doesn't have a EC, 6-4-3, ATPP org/venue. There is a HUGE vacuum over here. Land is $100K/acre, so it might be too late for Gwinnett. There's an effort underway to build a complex near Chateau Elan off I-85, so maybe someday this side of town will have something to brag about too.
Just count your blessings for all you have over there, and thank the EC, Triple Crown, ATPP, 6-4-3 and others every time you get a chance to.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 11:13:23
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6-4-3 does have a great program. A HS teammate of my son plays on the 17 yr old team. Very good team, very good reputation. There are many other good programs out there across the country, but none of them will exceed the reputation or what ECB has to offer. The main reason is that no one else - at least around here - has the facilities that ECB has. When people talk about ECB, they talk about coming to ECB to play in front of scouts. Yes, ECB is recognized for their quality of teams, but they wouldn't be as big as they are without hosting the tournaments that they do.
That is not to say that another organization won't rival ECB in terms of quality of instruction, but they will not be as nationally known as ECB.
Being involved in the travel world for the past 5 years, I know that just being on an ECB team does not mean anything. There are good coaches and bad coaches. There are good teams and bad teams. But what separates them and makes them able to attract the best and keep their reputation is the fact that teams from all over the country want to come to East Cobb to play in the Perfect Game and WWBA events as well as other tournaments. Very few organizations in the country draw the kind of numbers ECB does in their tournaments. In this months PG WWBA 16, 17 and 18 tournaments, all three age groups had in the neighborhood of 200 teams participating.
I don't think 6-4-3 will ever attract that kind of attention.
And, no, my son does not play at ECB. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 12:39:29
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Until he builds it they wont come. ECB has a facility. Until he gets one he can not be an ECB. I don't think he wants to be an ECB. He wants to make enough money to live, like most of us. He is selling a product that is in demand, if you dont like it don't go. Like teaching guitar lessons or dance or karate.
The problem is most people envy him because it seems so simple. He is doing something he loves, I am jealous. I have to work 8 hours a day in a warehouse looking at the clock, he is doing something he loves and getting paid. |
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stallion
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 13:35:26
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| Wow, Stinger and pcc, you have to be joking. There is a Perfect game 15u Tournament starting today at East Cobb. Take your kid there for the day and just talk to people. What you will find is that the east cobb brand is not about a person, it is about a system. You guys are talking about one person(Danny). I do not understand why people hate on ecb so much. Yes I do, it is the overwhelming success. Now, I have been closely watching the 10u team. I think Danny is doing a great job in coaching that team up. But, i do not think this team has developed any kid that is heads above all kids in any area. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 19:48:37
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Does anyone think Stinger might have riled up the EC folks. Most of you know that I like playing at East Cobb and have always. The majority of my experiences at East Cobb are positive with very few negatives.
I don't know that 643 toppled the Giant but they might have had their turn with the axe in chopping down the East Cobb myth that this program could not be beaten. But in the lower age groups everyone beats the East Cobb teams. I do wish that East Cobb would go back to at least one really strong flagship type team. It took out some of the luster in winning when the name wasn't Astros.
I really like East Cobb and if not for the distance would most certainly have it in my options of where my grandson's would like to play.
We are with the Chiefs and Bandits largely due to logistics and then after we started playing fell in love with the atmosphere and people. We are happy so we know we are in the right place. |
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stinger
120 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 16:54:21
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sox - this is not comment at all on your Sandtown program. I agree you guys are at least on par but probably better than 643 at this age. I would love to have seen you guys at Cooperstown competing with the rest of us. But I don't believe you are trying to build an ECB type program. I believe 643 is and this is a commentary on their status.
tfb - for the record, I have nothing to do with the 643 program so no chest thumping here. I'm just calling it as I see it.
stallion - I don't see how there is anything negative against ECB in my commentary. I simply pointed out how 643 is doing things different than ECB. And there is not better, or worse. It's just different. You can argue ECB gives more kids a chance to play or you can argue 643 has better coaches. It's a quantity vs. quality argument. But it will be interesting to see what happens to the quality at 643 with more teams and specifically what happens with the Jaguars. Will the quality be washed down? I can't see how it won't be but who knows.
I understand that 643 did in fact have 60+ kids paying $100 each trying out on a Monday night and I hear the quality was some of the best. I will be anxious to see if ECB can produce the same draw & quality for their try-outs.
And for those of you that comment on the facilities at ECB as well as how ECB is viewed above 13u, you are absolutely correct. That's 25 years of hard work by ECB to build so it will take some time, if that's what he wants to do, but I believe that is where 643 is headed. And I drew a line at 11u in my commentary. When this 11u group reaches 13u, it will be interesting to see if 643 still has all the mindshare in that age group. |
Edited by - stinger on 07/23/2009 09:37:35 |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 20:51:12
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| I knew this post was going to be a doozy |
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gdad
40 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 00:10:04
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| ECB is a great program, but it is no longer the only show in town. Programs like 6-4-3, and Home Plate Chilidogs, force ECB to keep their game on. Competition is a good thing! |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:12:50
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| In "doing my homework," I stumbled across this old thread. I'm wondering, almost three years on, what everyone's perspective is on the differences between these two, very good programs. I'd love to hear any perspectives, but I'm particularly interested in drilling down what exactly is the difference between ECB and 6-4-3. I'm not asking for a debate on which is better, just a discussion of how they are different from each other. Or, perhaps there isn't that much difference in the way they go about doing things? |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:43:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
In "doing my homework," I stumbled across this old thread. I'm wondering, almost three years on, what everyone's perspective is on the differences between these two, very good programs. I'd love to hear any perspectives, but I'm particularly interested in drilling down what exactly is the difference between ECB and 6-4-3. I'm not asking for a debate on which is better, just a discussion of how they are different from each other. Or, perhaps there isn't that much difference in the way they go about doing things?
Don't know the answers, but I sure made a great point.
My son hasn't played at either, but they are both great organizations and if the circumstances were right he would be glad to play at either. |
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:46:46
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| Papa has played for both systems and found nothing that jumps out at you that would be considered negative about either program. Danny and 6-4-3 now have a place to call home and have done a tremendous job in converting a neglected park and turned it into something special. Both places have excellent coaching and although there are different philosophies on how to develop a player's potential they both do an excellent job of what they do. A lot of it will depend on what you are looking for but I can promise that if these are the only 2 programs you are looking at then it will be hard for you to make a mistake. |
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agent21
97 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:59:01
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| Danny Pralgo is definitely a class act -- very knowledgeable, patient and understanding in responding to you. East Cobb is a total crap shoot depending on coach/team you end up with. Their tryouts are like a cattle call and I would tend to say almost entirely a fundraiser if you are not already hooked up with a team. Just my $.02. |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 13:01:01
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| Having just left an ECB team I would be glad to let you know the reason why my family will never even go to ECB to play a tournament let alone play on one of their teams. Email me and I'll let you know why. |
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itsgone
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2012 : 13:10:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
In "doing my homework," I stumbled across this old thread. I'm wondering, almost three years on, what everyone's perspective is on the differences between these two, very good programs. I'd love to hear any perspectives, but I'm particularly interested in drilling down what exactly is the difference between ECB and 6-4-3. I'm not asking for a debate on which is better, just a discussion of how they are different from each other. Or, perhaps there isn't that much difference in the way they go about doing things?
NewbieBBMom - They are both good "business models" and produce similar products. Think of it as McDonalds & Burger King, Home Depot and Loews...personal preference should be your decision maker. |
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6-4-3 DP Academy vs ECB
