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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2009 : 11:47:21
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| ok, Yall (thats southern) Im hearing all this Chatter about dad coaches vs paid coaches. I have my thoughts, im curious to hear what Yall (thats southern) have to say............. |
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jay
177 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 14:06:13
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| Here's my two cents, please not again... |
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goyard
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 14:13:41
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Boy you opened up a Big Can Big T! I can see the hot topic flames burning already
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 14:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
ok, Yall (thats southern) Im hearing all this Chatter about dad coaches vs paid coaches. I have my thoughts, im curious to hear what Yall (thats southern) have to say.............
How much does a paid coach cost?
Wouldn't you need at least 3?
I think as the boys get older it becomes more important for the dads to step back for a couple of reasons. 1) you need somebody that can teach the deepest intricacies of the game to get the boys ready for HS (of course that doesn't rule out every dad, but most), 2) no matter how hard a coach tries to be perfectly fair, there are going to be cries of daddy ball if even 1 player has fewer AB's or IP's than any of the coaches' boys.
Let's be honest, here. Non-dad coaches are going to be accused of favoritism by disgruntled parents anyway, which is just daddy ball without the blood connection.
FWIW-I was watching the noon Cooperstown games. 5 of the 36 coaches in the Final 8 didn't share a last name with a player, which, of course, doesn't automatically mean that their sons weren't on the team. So at least 85% of the coaches were dads.
Just curious, how many 11, 12, 13 and 14 YO teams would there be if there were no dads coaching? |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 17:14:01
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| All coaches in the championship game at Cooperstown are Dad coaches ? |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 10:22:22
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The problem is, there is just not an abundance of good non-dad coaches available. There are good dad coaches available and not-so-good non-dad coaches. It is almost impossible to convince a good dad-coach to coach a team other than the one his son is on, so that he becomes a non-dad coach.
The other thing I see is most parents don't know how to assess whether a non-dad coach is good or not and what is a fair rate to pay a coach. It is no fault of their own. It is just not something that most people experience.
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 11:57:38
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| Add to it the problem of teams with paid coaches, but the players are chosen by the former Daddy coaches. Can't make a Silk purse and all that.... Coach may improve the players, but if you don't have a lot to work with, it can be problematic. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 15:12:51
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| Yea, and trying not to get one that sits on the bucket the whole time and does not teach. |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 21:40:57
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Sadly, most dad coaches become coaches because they believe little Stevie should be lead off and play SS on the A team. But the reality of it is at the Elite level, he may only be the 10th best player on the team. So off they go to form another, under-instructed, poorly coached team of dads only interested in their own childs progress. I started as a volunteer dad with no children playing my first 10 years of coaching. Now I am finishing with my last one. There are a lot of promises, a lot of exagerating of ones coaching abilities, and un-informed, un-realistic parents.
My recommendation: Go to a few parks to watch some tournaments. Watch the coaches, watch the players, watch a few games. Go to some tryouts during the fall, spend a few dollars on a couple of batting lessons and maybe pitching lessons and then compare what you see the other young men do to your son. If you honestly think that he can compete, if you think you can teach 10 or 11 other boys the same things and help them improve, each one, not just yours, you are in a very small percentage of men. I have not seen anyone happily pay a non-dad coach and keep the team together (over 70% of the players) for the next season. I have seen a very small percentage of Dad Coaches keep over 80% of their teams players together. It is the sad reality of travel ball, and now recreation ball. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2009 : 11:23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by oldmanmj
Sadly, most dad coaches become coaches because they believe little Stevie should be lead off and play SS on the A team. But the reality of it is at the Elite level, he may only be the 10th best player on the team. So off they go to form another, under-instructed, poorly coached team of dads only interested in their own childs progress. I started as a volunteer dad with no children playing my first 10 years of coaching. Now I am finishing with my last one. There are a lot of promises, a lot of exagerating of ones coaching abilities, and un-informed, un-realistic parents.
My recommendation: Go to a few parks to watch some tournaments. Watch the coaches, watch the players, watch a few games. Go to some tryouts during the fall, spend a few dollars on a couple of batting lessons and maybe pitching lessons and then compare what you see the other young men do to your son. If you honestly think that he can compete, if you think you can teach 10 or 11 other boys the same things and help them improve, each one, not just yours, you are in a very small percentage of men. I have not seen anyone happily pay a non-dad coach and keep the team together (over 70% of the players) for the next season. I have seen a very small percentage of Dad Coaches keep over 80% of their teams players together. It is the sad reality of travel ball, and now recreation ball.
We have learned over the years that the DAD COACH teams who stay together with a majority year over year are losing record teams whose players really have no where else to go . |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2009 : 10:13:34
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| One thing i have seen that is even worse is that people who are good coaches volunteer (free) to help out teams where dad's are coaching and are shunned as the dad's dont want anyone to take their spot on the team or show the kids that pop's aint all that great of a coach |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 10:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
One thing i have seen that is even worse is that people who are good coaches volunteer (free) to help out teams where dad's are coaching and are shunned as the dad's dont want anyone to take their spot on the team or show the kids that pop's aint all that great of a coach
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 08:47:49
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
One thing i have seen that is even worse is that people who are good coaches volunteer (free) to help out teams where dad's are coaching and are shunned as the dad's dont want anyone to take their spot on the team or show the kids that pop's aint all that great of a coach
Gotta say, that's never happened on any of my son's teams. I'm sure his coaches could/would have been happy for the help vs the other 9 or 10 families letting them do it all.
If we are looking for a team with a paid coaching staff I have two logistical questions.
How big will the coaching staff be? 2? 3? 4?
What kind of budget can I expect for their salaries and expenses? $5,000? More? |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 14:50:53
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
Gotta say, that's never happened on any of my son's teams. I'm sure his coaches could/would have been happy for the help vs the other 9 or 10 families letting them do it all.
If we are looking for a team with a paid coaching staff I have two logistical questions.
How big will the coaching staff be? 2? 3? 4?
What kind of budget can I expect for their salaries and expenses? $5,000? More?
We were part of of a non-dad team this year and the total bill was about $400 more than we usually pay ... with the exception of the Cooperstown years. I am sure there are some that cost more.
Call me crazy, but I will take (pay for) 2 volunteer coaches over 5 Dad coaches any day of the week.  |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by 3sondad
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
Gotta say, that's never happened on any of my son's teams. I'm sure his coaches could/would have been happy for the help vs the other 9 or 10 families letting them do it all.
If we are looking for a team with a paid coaching staff I have two logistical questions.
How big will the coaching staff be? 2? 3? 4?
What kind of budget can I expect for their salaries and expenses? $5,000? More?
We were part of of a non-dad team this year and the total bill was about $400 more than we usually pay ... with the exception of the Cooperstown years. I am sure there are some that cost more.
Call me crazy, but I will take (pay for) 2 volunteer coaches over 5 Dad coaches any day of the week.
Nothing crazy about that.
So the team only had two coaches? If the team had 12 players, that is about $4800. That seems reasonable, but running a team with 2 coaches would be a challenge I would think unless they didn't have any other responsibilities. |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 00:59:58
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| Do not muddy the waters with too many paid coaches. If you look back on the teams with dads you had five coaches that were Dads assuring their kid a spot and playing time. Ever try to teach a kid something with five different opinions and agendas coming at him. Can't do it. Kid gets confused and stagnant. Really, look back and be honest with yourself. If you go the paid route get a headcoach that will run the team properly and put out a message that the players can latch onto and progress with. You need a leader with kids and not coaching/leading by committee. Let the paid coach tell you how many other coaches he needs to run a team properly. If he knows what he is doing the number is not going to be higher than 2. We all know that the book/scorekeeping etc can be helped out by team volunteers and the team adults can step in and help with some of the little stuff when needed. Leave the message and direction to the head coach. i still think coaching is one of the toughest things to do right out there. make sure you get a coach with the fire and passion for the kids and the game and just not one in it for the money. There ain't enough money at this level to totally "buy" leadership. Hey, take a kid to the park this week and have a blast! |
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mammabee
95 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 15:54:03
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Heya game25 !
you herd all our thoughts said you have your own, so tell us yours!
quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
ok, Yall (thats southern) Im hearing all this Chatter about dad coaches vs paid coaches. I have my thoughts, im curious to hear what Yall (thats southern) have to say.............
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PCV
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 07:01:41
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quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
[quote]
We have learned over the years that the DAD COACH teams who stay together with a majority year over year are losing record teams whose players really have no where else to go .
I disagree.... |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:14:03
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Was coach dan trying to say that teams with a Dad Coach, who have players that have no where else to go, and return to the team year after year, typically have a losing record?
I had a hard time deciphering the coded message.
If that is what he is saying, there might be truth to it, but I don't think he implied that ALL teams that fit that criteria have losing records. Just a lot. The key to the statement is "have no where else to go" which is hard to do around here because there are tons of places to go play. There might be areas, such as way outside of the Atlanta metro area that this applies to. If so, I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the coaching, just the area the team can draw players from.
PCV, all your players could go somewhere else to play, so you don't apply to this statement. |
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Big Stick
4 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:27:04
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| I like the paid coach concept. It is their job and they put more into it. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 11:49:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Stick
I like the paid coach concept. It is their job and they put more into it.
A) "It is their job and they put more into it."
That's not a given. Not everyone puts maximum effort into their jobs.
B) The paid coaches that I'm familiar with, it's just a side job, not even close to their primary source of income. It would be prohibitive to pay them enough for it to be their primary job.
C) Do you like the concept of a total of 5 or 6 area travel teams in each age group? Because that is what you would be looking at if you eliminated all "Dad" coaches.
I like the concept as well, but am curious as we look to next year how the mechanics/logistics will work. It sounds like it's easier
said than done.
Do you think a paid coach would put more effort in/have more success than the 13U Paulding County Vipers, to name one example? |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 19:38:25
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| Vipers, Stallions, Pro Spot, Bulldog, Combat, Team Gwinnett to name a few more |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 20:01:23
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| Hey Mama, sorry so late, was at Panama City watching my boy playin the game he loves. My thoughts are pretty simple. There are good teams with dad coaches there are not so good teams with dad coaches. There are good teams with Non Dad coaches, there are not so good teams with non dad coaches. The non dad paid coaches have favorites, thats a normal thing, they are treated like thier sons in some cases. If a dad coach is playing his kid in a position he is not the best on the team, hitting his kid 1,2,3 when he really should be hitting 10, thats a problem too. One thing i disagree with is when i hear "my son has to play for a non dad paid coach" that is not the only way to play this game. There are plenty of dad coaches around that do a great job. I named a few, in a post a couple minutes ago, want to add the EC Longhorns and Powder Springs to the list. This area is a hot bed for baseball, how many non dad teams were there at the 13 U age in 2009?????? If it was such a good idea there would be a ton of them with the talent in our area. Hows that mama? |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 20:05:00
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| EC Astros 12U, EC Yankees 12U, some pretty good 12 U dad teams |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 20:08:16
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| Bombers from last year, the dads list grows and grows |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 23:59:07
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| Another example of successful dads coaching is the 12U Shamrocks, I believe that is 4 dads. If you use East Cobb teams as nothing more than an example, I have never seen more team hopping because a Dad doesn't agree with the assessment of a coaching staff's usage of little Johnny, (Dad believes he is he next Cy Young, Derek Jeter,etc.), but can't get the time because he really can't compete. So he breaks off, makes a new team and gathers the other upset dads that dropped off the other EC teams and now you have 30 teams. Even the paid coaches struggle year in and year out with players and families. So who is to blame, DAD's, Paid Coaches or Mommy & Daddy. |
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Topic |
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DAD vs PAID NON DAD COACH
