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balldad
43 Posts |
 Posted - 05/25/2009 : 19:18:43
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| Our ball team went and played out of state this weekend. I noticed how we were treated by some of the umpires who were officiating the games. One umpire came off the field and looked at all the family members and some of the ball team and told us to go back to Georgia. This is the first I have seen any officating go to this extreme. Does this happen alot, or is this how they do things in TN? |
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Stixxbaseball
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 22:16:13
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| We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 08:00:53
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| Being from extreme North Georgia the Bandits play almost as much in Tennessee as we do in Georgia. I have to say that I have not noticed the type behavior from any umpire that you described happened to you. If this umpire did act in this way then he should have been reported to the tournament director and reprimanded or even barred. I have noticed that some of the umpires seem to want the game to be focused on them instead of the game itself and this is the ones that need to get out of the business. |
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C. MORTON
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:05:12
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| We all have to remember when we go off to play ball tournaments we need to do some checking around to see what kind of place we are playing..This is the SOUTH and everywhere is not the same..Certain parts of Tenn and Ga are still set in the OLD ways..I know we want to go play baseball but sometimes certain people don't want certain people comming to their towns for anything...And this goes both ways..Its sad but maybe tournament directors need to make sure all teams play in safe enviorments for players and families.. |
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:33:44
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| I agree with papa...it's too bad that some umpires feel like they are there to be seen...I was always told the best umpire is the one that you don't know is there...I have seen some pretty crumping umpiring this year ...as the sport grows there seems to be a lack of training for the umpires I see...I don't believe TN has a corner on the terrible umpiring market thou...have you ever played in Auburn Alabama???...I'm a homer but NG has been known to trot out some really young umpirees with terrible training and a chip on their shoulders as well....we try to be cool with umpires but it sounds like your case is different...I would have had a really big problem with that kind of stuff.... |
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fourseam
162 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:26:18
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| Balldad is telling the truth, several of our parents herd the comments from him as he left the field. Some of the parents said a few words back to him and he just gave them a talk to the hand motion. It was a very tight game and a pitchers duel up to the end a couple of extremely questional calls made the out come of this game. I am not saying that we would have won the game, but it is upsetting to lose an unfairly called game. That being said the team we played was very well coached and has an abundence of talent and could stand toe to toe with most teams in the country. |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 12:53:46
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| I always feel bad going into a game when I see a umpire or umpires in the other dugout talking to the other coaches and kids before a game. Happened this weekend and made me sick to my stomach. |
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moss21
54 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 16:10:17
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| My thing is that they are going and getting umps that don't know the rules of baseball,and another thing that makes me mad is when the ump don't hustle and get into position to make the call.Whenever they get into position and make a call,I have to atleast give him some credit for being in the right place at the right. But most of these umps now are just out there for the money,my answer for that, is if the lazy umps need to make extra money they need to go invest in a LAWN MOWER. |
Edited by - moss21 on 05/27/2009 08:41:59 |
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Storm Baseball
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 16:30:41
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Had a situation at the Mazzone tournament this weekend where our runner heading home went around the catcher because he was 4-6 feet up the line. The umpire called him out for going out of the basepath to avoid contact. When I challenged, he said that he was more than three feet out of the path and "if I didn't believe him, to go get a ruler". ????? Never fails...if i tell him how i really feel, he will umpire the rest of our games. If I don't say anything, I will never see him again!! 
It is amazing how some of these umpires have what I call the "God Syndrome". They have to make a spectacle of themselves and be the center of attention. |
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balldad
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 18:02:17
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| I believe that umpires should be better managed during these tournaments. They should not be in either teams dugout or sitting and socislizing with either team. They get paid to do a job and thats it. I see it happen alot especially when some teams are from that town. I see the umpires calling kids by first name and talking with coaching about going out to eat after the game. This weekends game was a good tight game and could have went either way, but the umpire clearly missed a call and he and everyone even the other team new it and that was what tipped the momentum in one direction. Then it was bad call after another. It would have been different if they were going both ways but it was clear were it was going to end before it ever got there. Also, This is only my opinion and not the ball in which I am associated with. I just hope to face them one day on an even playing field. |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 23:04:11
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Got to love the human element of the game. Just think what a ballgame would be without umpires??? Not sure if my pulse would ever go over 72. We have to remember we are the training ground for these guys too. You are going to get a majority of newbies in little guy ball. Part of my enjoyment is second guessing the umpires too. The baseline is three feet either way of the point the runner establishes, not the line drawn on the field, or where the catcher happens to be. What happens when the kid plows over the catcher? He is out for not trying to avoid contact. Wow another judgement call. This is my opinion on plays around the plate - you have to give some leway to the guy not wearing full armor to get to the plate - if he can get around the catcher and still get to the plate with his hand i think it should be ok. mind you most of the little guys might only be 4 feet long anyways. What if your guy did make contact, is it defensive inteference so far up the line? Where was the ball? Did the catcher have the ball or was he fielding it? or a bad throw coming back with a swipe tag? Not really looking for an answer here but it is amazing how fast the action happens and a human has to make a quick judgement call. Personally I suck at umpiring - i get too involved with watching the game instead of judging the rules of it and interpretting them. Maybe I cannot handle the rejection of having 50% of the people hate me after every call.
I think also the coaches have to make sure they know the rules and also make sure the umpire is aware you know them too, play the game of getting mutual respect if possible. Fleecing an umpire usually gets you no where even if it is a fun thing to do from time to time. Usually gets the other team about 4 more outs than they need to beat you with. You also need to stroke the ego of an umpire anytime you can. Comment on his dress, his hair, and the shine on his shoes may work. Occaisionally tell him he made a **** good call even if it was not in your favor. Coaches really have two games to manage as I joke about this. If all else fails you can leave a 12 pack and a hundo in his car before you get out of the parking lot. Keep it real and take a kid to the park this week and have a blast. |
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Sox
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 08:25:06
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This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 09:38:48
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| Over heard one umpire tell the other umpire that the opposing teams coach was his nephew....man that made for a great game...LOL |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:05:30
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A couple of key points:
Umpires should:
*Have thick skin
*Try not to get to the field of play until they are ready for the game to start (keeps the socializing down)
*Manage the game and not let either team's coach influence their calls.
*Not play to the crowd or attempt to be part of the game.
The best umpire is the one that goes about making his calls and is almost transparent to the game. Their calls or stike zone may not be perfect, but they should be consistent. You can work around consistency, even if that is a strike zone a foot inside and out.
Parents should:
Enjoy the game and leave the coaching and addressing the umpire to the coaches.
I have seen so many times where the fans stayed on an umpire and ended up hurting their team because they could no longer get a borderline call. (Not implying that any scenario's above did this.) They want to blame the umpire but they were as much to blame. It's not a good example to set to the kids. I have even seen some kids try to argue with an ump, which should NEVER be tolerated. Many times they get that from seeing the fans addressing the umpire.
I see a lot of umpires working hard and trying to make the right calls. I have seen some others that just make you shake your head. I have seen bad calls that were not on purpose, and I have seen some others that were due to not knowing the rules. Some plays are hard to get in position for with only 2 umpires on the field. Particularly when you get multiple runners on base. Tagging up on a fly ball and HR's near the foul pole seem to be the hardest.
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 12:45:44
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| Same tournament this weekend had a umpire who refused to call a balk on the other team. After talking to their pitchers for about the third time. I finally called time to ask him if he was going to be calling balks. He said" I am not going to call balks on these young kids. He told me I was taking the game to seriously and that he hoped I didn't give them anymore trouble". BTW, that was the first time I had said anything since the meeting at the plate. About an inning later I moved my starting pitcher to second base to start an inning.He had one of those necklaces on that alot of the kids are wearing now days. Umpire made him take it off to pitch which I was fine with but when I told him he was going to second base he put it back on.Well the umpire came over to him and told him to take it back off and if he put it on again in this game or any other game that the umpire called he was going to eject him. |
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Stixxbaseball
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 18:46:07
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I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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Edited by - Stixxbaseball on 05/27/2009 22:43:31 |
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Sox
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 08:22:12
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I think you're trying to blame the umpires, I or no one else saw a play that was miss by 3 steps, I think you're reaching.quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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GA Umpire
3 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 13:57:33
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This is a normal day in the life of an umpire, 2 people at same game, see 2 different things!
Imagine if we polled 10 or 20 people!
Play ball, rarely does an umpire make a call that decides the game for one team or another. Coaches, Parents, and Players, seem to forget about the errors and walks, which really caused the loss!
Most of us are out there trying to get it right everytime! If you can do better, sign up we can always use more Umps!
quote:
Originally posted by Sox
I think you're trying to blame the umpires, I or no one else saw a play that was miss by 3 steps, I think you're reaching.quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
I am talking about what should have been the first out of the inning when the ground ball was hit to our first baseman and he tagged first 3 steps ahead of the runner. To the best of my knowledge, that is a missed force out which extended the inning.quote:
Originally posted by Sox
This was not a force out, First base was open! quote:
Originally posted by Stixxbaseball
We were pretty much given the same message by the umpires at the TC tournament a couple of weeks ago against Sandtown. I know umpires are half wrong as soon as they walk on the field and understand you are going to get some calls and lose some but their is no excuse when a runner is out by three steps on a force call but is called safe. Our opponents third base coach even laughed at the call.
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lifeguard
74 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 15:08:46
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GA Umpire
I believe the subject got a little off topic. As an umpire, I already know when I wake up each morning that every close call, whether at a base or a pitch thats just outside the black, is going to be wrong 50% of the time. You are correct in that usually an umpire is NOT the reason the game was won or lost, usually. Even in this thread, the primary purpose was the statements by the umpires after the game, while walking past the losing team, not so much about the questionable calls. The umpires add the human element, which I believe at this age, is a tremendous example of how life can be. Even later in life, one can do all he can do while working in corporate America, and still, the person in charge can get it wrong and you're "out". An umpire getting it wrong is a human error, a mistake. As Ga Ump said, we're all trying to get it right. Although I'm not in the habit of "socializing" with one team or another, I do want to be approachable, because this is still a kids game, who are watching everything that happen, both negatively and positively. And like anything else, there is an ugly side. But then, I see the glass half full.
I call from age 10 (can't get down to the 8's zone anymore:-) ) to JUCO, with the exception of 12 & 13's because I also coach. And even there I'm only right 50% as the other 50% is up to the kid. |
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balldad
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 15:12:55
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| GA Umpire have you ever went to a group of people and told them to go back were they came from? That was the point to this discusion. We all agree you guys can not get it right everytime. I have seen alot of good umpires in my time and we are not trying to take away from them. Just the one who come out there with something to prove like they were picked on in school and now for some dumb reason thay want to take it out on the kids not the one who was originally was doing the picking. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2009 : 07:42:32
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When umps do well, we don't hear much about it. But when they do bad, we tell everyone you know who will listen (this includes me!).
It all gives the perspective that the umps collectively really stink.
In my opinion, about 8 in 10 are adequate to very good. 1 in 10 has real difficulty with the strike zone, and 1 in 10 is a homer, and/or bully.
Overall grade B.
If I ran a league, I'd require all Head and Assistant Coaches to call 1 scrimmage game before the season begins just to ad some perspective.
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Tball
142 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2009 : 17:48:43
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Bmoser, well said!
We all need to remember this is 10u baseball, not the world series. We are better off having these umpires than many of us out there. It is not too often one call decides the game!! I do have a problem with a coach using foul language towards an umpire in front of 10yr olds when in the end that run would not have won the game. Guys we need to teach respect, teamwork, and sportsmanship weather we win or lose. Just my opinion.... what say you! |
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GA Umpire
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 10:52:02
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Bmoser,
That is a great idea to have the coaches and assistant coaches call a game prior to the season. We should also ask some parents get out there, I would glady lend them my equipment for a game.
I also think your B grade of umpires is right on point. I just hope the bad ones are getting better each game and not getting worse!
I was just commenting on how two people, at the same game, saw two different outcomes on 1 play!
I would never say anything to the parents like what was said in the earlier post. My job is to be invisible, when the game is over, I don't want you to even remember I was there!
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
When umps do well, we don't hear much about it. But when they do bad, we tell everyone you know who will listen (this includes me!).
It all gives the perspective that the umps collectively really stink.
In my opinion, about 8 in 10 are adequate to very good. 1 in 10 has real difficulty with the strike zone, and 1 in 10 is a homer, and/or bully.
Overall grade B.
If I ran a league, I'd require all Head and Assistant Coaches to call 1 scrimmage game before the season begins just to ad some perspective.
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tater77bug
133 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 12:45:08
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| Blue you are right on...you should be invisible...it is too bad that so many now want to be seen...and it is a thankless job...but there is no excuss for an umpire being unprepared...there are so many venues for training that's it not funny...however there are umpires that we see that just aren't prepared and that is different than inexperinced....and just like there are poor coaches and weaker players there is going to be poor umpires...it's hard to watch someone that doesn't know the rules....and they are getting paid for it... |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 14:51:58
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| I think having the parents get in the batting cages and take some cuts, while the kids critique them would also be a good idea. Let them see how hard it is to do what they are hounding the kids about doing. |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 06/01/2009 15:32:00 |
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GA Umpire
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 12:14:06
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Tater,
I run into alot of coaches that do not know the rules, which is a huge problem. I don't expect the parents to know all the rules, but if the coach does not know, how can they effectively coach.
Training may not improve what we call juddgement calls. (i.e. balls, strikes, interference, obstruction, tag outs etc) Judgement calls get a lot of oowws and aahhs from the crowd. I told a parent who came up after the game, in a very nice manner, that she can only see up and down pitches, you cannot see in and out. You cannot see if the catcher is set up outside or inside. just because the pitcher hits the glove, it does not always make it a strike.
Again is funny how the losing team, sometimes, wants to talk about how bad the ump's were. My son plays 14U travel ball, all of thier losses came down to walks and errors! With judgement calls some go your way and some do not!
Sorry to get off topic, I know we started with remarks made by Umps to some parents, for that I apologize for all umps and hope you never run into that again.
quote:
Originally posted by tater77bug
Blue you are right on...you should be invisible...it is too bad that so many now want to be seen...and it is a thankless job...but there is no excuss for an umpire being unprepared...there are so many venues for training that's it not funny...however there are umpires that we see that just aren't prepared and that is different than inexperinced....and just like there are poor coaches and weaker players there is going to be poor umpires...it's hard to watch someone that doesn't know the rules....and they are getting paid for it...
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Umpires
