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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2010 : 11:55:17
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| Papa thinks that the cheerleaders should just come and cheer for the baseball teams and parents can split the gate fees. We could have the umpires double as judges for the cheerleading competition and kill two birds with one stone. This would work guys but it might be dangerous as the boys might get distracted a fly ball hit right on their heads while they are trying to get a glimpse of the cheerleaders doing their stunts. |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 11:58:53
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There will be a minimum of $100,000.00 total PROFIT made at this tournament to be split by the directors IF the weather holds up and all runs as it should. This is a conservative figure. A normal tournament will give a profit of $150-200 per team. With the added entry fee charge this tournament should give a profit of $300.00 per team rather easily..... IF the gate fees are going to the directors and not the parks. The parks should be charging a flat rental fee for the weekend.
Now how about that sports fans...believe me there is MAJOR money being made!!
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blowinsmoke
61 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 12:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
Here is the admission fee for a competitive cheerleading event going on in Jacksonville, FL this weekend. 2 day event.
Admission: $15 a day or $25 for a two day pass. Children 5-18 are $10 a day. Only Cash is accepted.
Each squad competes for 2.5 minutes per day.
After 3-4 years of this, I have no complaint about the gate fees at baseball tournaments. If you love baseball, you can sit and watch games all day and really get your money's worth. If you are really not into baseball, but come to only watch your kid, then head out immediately afterwards, then it may not be as good of a deal. I think it is all relative.
Yeah you are right, I would have to take off from work and then go to those competitions and then pay 15 or 20 dollars for me to get in to watch my daughter for 2.5 minutes and then stay around for rest of day ,baseball is much better.
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 12:48:10
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With that said...it comes down to.... is the exprience worth the money paid....and for an event such as this...I say yes. This event brings in top quality teams and the opprotunity that you don't get every week.
So my advice suck it up...pay the money and enjoy a great weekend of baseball!
And who knows your team my end up headed to DISNEY! |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 13:43:32
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| (((((Standing Applause))))..Alter, Incredible post, I share your pain...self inflicted, I might add. My daughter and wife have gone to Dallas, Chattanooga, Orlando and are heading south this weekend to Jacksonville. Tally up the cost for bows and you must be in the red like I am...(i say in the red, but it see your daughter win nationals). Now those cheerleading competition folks make the dinero. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 14:47:46
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mrbama31,
You bring up a good point. If you think these are high, don't even talk about the week long event in Orlando.
A family will spend more going to an 1.5 hr movie than a weekend on baseball gate fees. Especially if you are taking kids because at least they get into the tournaments fee. Not to mention at the tournaments, you can stay around and watch other games. At the movies they frown upon going into one of the other theaters to watch another movie that just started.  |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 03/18/2010 20:57:16 |
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Scott0923
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 15:01:38
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Thanks Alter!!! I just read the post then picked up the phone to call a gym and CANCEL my 8 yr old daughter's cheer application!
I FEEL SO RELIEVED |
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mom4baseball
38 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 09:41:20
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| TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!!! Cheerleading competitions is wear the money is made. Don't even think about eating at the event either. They perform in civic centers, areanas and places like that with those set concession prices!! OUTRAGEOUS!!! |
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floridabaseball
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 16:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by ingasven
I've always felt it was a tad bit ridiculous to pay to watch my children play a game that I'm already paying 1500-3000 a year to have them play.
I thought maybe the trend was becoming rolling the gate fee into the tournament entry fee as I started seeing $500 entry fees for only a three game guarantee, but then i get hit at the gate for another 5 bucks.
Honestly, what would happen if we all just said enough is enough? We'll pay your steep entry fee to play locally for only three games vs. the drive 50-70 miles north where tournaments are regularly advertised for $350 and a four game guarantee(I'm wondering if we aren't all missing the boat there.)but we aren't giving you another five dollars at the gate.
Should we all bring a tea bag this weekend?
Those facilities in Dalton, Ringgold, etc. are actually pretty nice and it seems as though at least 10 of the same teams are in every tournament. I bet those folks up there would be happy to adjust schedules to accomodate the distance we all have to travel.
It really isn't about five bucks...every other industry in this country has had to scale back, make cuts and accept smaller profit margins in order to stay solvent...
It makes me think scheduling weekend round robins with two or three other teams where we all split the umpiring fees may be a better alternative... bring your own coolers, food, grills and whatever else you can fit in the truck; just show up so the boys get to play and get better.
I'll donate all my kids' old trophies to hand out if that's the only reason we all pay these steep fees.
If you don't want to pay to watch your kid play then who should foot the bill. Who pays for the fields, umpires, awards, etc. |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 12:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
There will be a minimum of $100,000.00 total PROFIT made at this tournament to be split by the directors IF the weather holds up and all runs as it should. This is a conservative figure. A normal tournament will give a profit of $150-200 per team. With the added entry fee charge this tournament should give a profit of $300.00 per team rather easily..... IF the gate fees are going to the directors and not the parks. The parks should be charging a flat rental fee for the weekend.
Now how about that sports fans...believe me there is MAJOR money being made!!
with a 395.00 entry fee and two days worth of gate fees on our for our team, I can't see where they made any money. Assuming two umps make 60.00 a game, (likely light on that number) we played five games. thats 150.00 per team right there. Now subtract cost of fields, cost of labor at fields, sanctioning fees, and all those bags of diamond dry and I suspect that your estimate of 100K might be a little off. But you know, they could put this to rest by posting the numbers. If they are not making an outrageous amount of money, then they should show us some numbers... We're not saying they should not make money. So how did you do USSSA? |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 13:10:14
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Lefty,
You not looking at the whole picture....There were 2 teams involved in your games therefor there was 2 $395 entry fees covering that $150.00 worth of umpires.
Let me show u...
320 teams x avg $395.00 entry fee = $126,400
320 teams x 20 fans per team X 3 days of gate fees = $128,000
Avg games played per team 4.5 ...there was aproxx... 720 games played x $70 for umps = $50.400
They made about $254,400 on entry fees and gate.
Paid about $50,400 in umps
That leaves approx $200,400 left over b4 field rentals.....
They made a BUTT LOAD....thats for sure..
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Edited by - mrbama31 on 03/22/2010 13:17:19 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 17:02:55
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| mrbama31: Could you help Papa with his taxes. This number stuff gives me headaches. |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 20:43:08
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quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Lefty,
You not looking at the whole picture....There were 2 teams involved in your games therefor there was 2 $395 entry fees covering that $150.00 worth of umpires.
Let me show u...
320 teams x avg $395.00 entry fee = $126,400
320 teams x 20 fans per team X 3 days of gate fees = $128,000
Avg games played per team 4.5 ...there was aproxx... 720 games played x $70 for umps = $50.400
They made about $254,400 on entry fees and gate.
Paid about $50,400 in umps
That leaves approx $200,400 left over b4 field rentals.....
They made a BUTT LOAD....thats for sure..
No I got that right... (the umpire thing...) I assumed each umpire gets 30.00 a game, time two umps, times five games, 150.00 per team.
Many teams did not have 3 days gate fees, they either did not play friday, did not play sat, or were eliminated before sunday.
So your gate fees are likely off by at least a third, maybe as much as 40-45 percent. And you what are the sanctioning fees, what are the field rentals and did the field rentals include the field crew labor.
But your point is well taken. Which is why I thought maybe its time for them to show their numbers or we say NO next year. If they are not willing to do it, its an obvious sign that maybe they are taking advantage. Who runs the Atlanta Super NIT anyway? How do the get awarded the "franchise" and what does it cost. How much do the tournament directors get and how much is siphoned off by USSSA.
If these things are transparent then they clearly smell funny. And who REALLY needs them anyway. Think those 20 12 Major teams are incapable of forming a league of their own and hosting their own tourneys? They should not take the participation for granted.
And if they really awarded the title to teams that led after pool play and told teams that made it all the way to the finals to go pound sand, then they should get and EARFULL. Particularly when it seems that they made sure the major teams finished their games and let the AAA and AA teams sit and wait. Seems to me I now understand why our team sat for at least an hour waiting for a grounds crew and diamond dry prior to our semi final on Sunday. This was a division that had the final game rained out on Sunday night in the second inning. A game that did not start until about 7-7:30 that could have started a full hour earlier if we had not just sat there. A champion could have been crowned on the field. But I suspect, the field crews were busy grooming the major fieldd somewhere so they could get those games in, OR they were sitting on the diamond dry, making sure they had enough for the fields that "counted" before they let them put it on our field.
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TNBaseball
3 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 00:05:25
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| Whether it's right or wrong, the majors teams were also playing for a bid to the Elite World Series....... |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:36:21
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Lefty,
Your point is noted in regard to teams not playing Sat or Sun...So I went back to the schedules to Check.. here is what I found...
128 teams DID NOT play FRI. This reduced my total by $12,800.00
80 teams did not play Sunday...this oddly reduced my total by the same
$12,800.00. Reducing my gate estimate overall to $102,400.00
Now leaving $174,800.00 after paying Umpires.
But note I made a very conservative guess on fans (20 per team) and I am assuming none of the teams not scheduled to play Fri or Sun came to watch the other teams play those days.
If I were a betting man the gate was still around $120,000.00
And the gate normally provides the profit to the tourney...with the entry fee covering your cost to have the tourney.
Still a BUTT LOAD...ANYWAY YOU SHAKE IT OUT.
quote:
Originally posted by LeftyBat
quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
Lefty,
You not looking at the whole picture....There were 2 teams involved in your games therefor there was 2 $395 entry fees covering that $150.00 worth of umpires.
Let me show u...
320 teams x avg $395.00 entry fee = $126,400
320 teams x 20 fans per team X 3 days of gate fees = $128,000
Avg games played per team 4.5 ...there was aproxx... 720 games played x $70 for umps = $50.400
They made about $254,400 on entry fees and gate.
Paid about $50,400 in umps
That leaves approx $200,400 left over b4 field rentals.....
They made a BUTT LOAD....thats for sure..
No I got that right... (the umpire thing...) I assumed each umpire gets 30.00 a game, time two umps, times five games, 150.00 per team.
Many teams did not have 3 days gate fees, they either did not play friday, did not play sat, or were eliminated before sunday.
So your gate fees are likely off by at least a third, maybe as much as 40-45 percent. And you what are the sanctioning fees, what are the field rentals and did the field rentals include the field crew labor.
But your point is well taken. Which is why I thought maybe its time for them to show their numbers or we say NO next year. If they are not willing to do it, its an obvious sign that maybe they are taking advantage. Who runs the Atlanta Super NIT anyway? How do the get awarded the "franchise" and what does it cost. How much do the tournament directors get and how much is siphoned off by USSSA.
If these things are transparent then they clearly smell funny. And who REALLY needs them anyway. Think those 20 12 Major teams are incapable of forming a league of their own and hosting their own tourneys? They should not take the participation for granted.
And if they really awarded the title to teams that led after pool play and told teams that made it all the way to the finals to go pound sand, then they should get and EARFULL. Particularly when it seems that they made sure the major teams finished their games and let the AAA and AA teams sit and wait. Seems to me I now understand why our team sat for at least an hour waiting for a grounds crew and diamond dry prior to our semi final on Sunday. This was a division that had the final game rained out on Sunday night in the second inning. A game that did not start until about 7-7:30 that could have started a full hour earlier if we had not just sat there. A champion could have been crowned on the field. But I suspect, the field crews were busy grooming the major fieldd somewhere so they could get those games in, OR they were sitting on the diamond dry, making sure they had enough for the fields that "counted" before they let them put it on our field.
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Edited by - mrbama31 on 03/23/2010 10:42:15 |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by TNBaseball
Whether it's right or wrong, the majors teams were also playing for a bid to the Elite World Series.......
Have you been to Disney for the Elite 32...I have been twice and the gate fee for that is about $50.00 per person for the tourney. And you better not lose that pass or you will be buying a new one.
BESIDES THAT....there were only 5 bids to Disney given out.
OH YEA I didnt even count the TSHIRTS they sold that cost them $5 each....and sold them for $15.00- $20.00 each....
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 10:16:50
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I was given an estimate from a very reliable source that the parks were rented in the neighborhood of $4000.00 per park for the weekend... which 14 parks at $4000.00 = $56,000 cost on field cost. That covers maintenance and everything for the weekend.
This leaves a profit of $122,000 plus a profit of $10-$15 per T shirt sold.
Which the profit form the T shirts probably covered most of the cost they paid people to man the gates, the T shirt stands and any other hourly people they had working for them.
Once again though it is a GREAT TOURNAMENT...So don't miss understand ME...I think it is great that we as a State has one of the biggest tournaments played in the entire country right here in our back yards. And its OK that they make a lot of money on this tournament because they have put a lot of work into it. BUT DON'T KID yourselves into thinking they did not make $100,000.00 + on this tournament.
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Edited by - mrbama31 on 03/23/2010 10:42:52 |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 12:00:47
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quote:
Originally posted by mrbama31
I was given an estimate from a very reliable source that the parks were rented in the neighborhood of $4000.00 per park for the weekend... which 14 parks at $4000.00 = $56,000 cost on field cost. That covers maintenance and everything for the weekend.
This leaves a profit of $122,000 plus a profit of $10-$15 per T shirt sold.
Which the profit form the T shirts probably covered most of the cost they paid people to man the gates, the T shirt stands and any other hourly people they had working for them.
Once again though it is a GREAT TOURNAMENT...So don't miss understand ME...I think it is great that we as a State has one of the biggest tournaments played in the entire country right here in our back yards. And its OK that they make a lot of money on this tournament because they have put a lot of work into it. BUT DON'T KID yourselves into thinking they did not make $100,000.00 + on this tournament.
Sweet deal for them. But really, they made 100k on 420 teams, so thats 250.00 or so profit per team, divided by an average of 12 boys per time, about 21.00 bucks profit a kid? Thats a lot of fun for the money for my son...
So how much of the 100K does the guys who ran the tourney get and how much does USSSA get? How many guys do they have to divide up this 100k profit? is this a full time job for them?
And is this a "franchise" Who decided who gets to host a Super NIT and how much they get to charge and how much they get to keep and do they have to pay for the right to host it?
Your point is well taken. Not sure if someone should get rich off of running 3-4 tourneys a year and I doubt they are. Suspect it was a TON of work that took several people months of work to coordinate and pull off...
But it really should not be such a mystery. The mystery is what makes us think it might smell funny...
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Bully
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 14:03:41
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It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 15:15:48
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This is just like eating out at a resturant. We all know we can get the stuff and cook it a lot cheaper at home. But we go out to eat because we don't want to go through all the fuss of doing it ourselves, because the cook may do a better job with it, and/or because we like the environment.
When is the last time you paid $12.99 per pound for steak in the grocery store? I hope never. So we know the resturant is making $7-9 mark-up on that meal. They may have overhead easily noticed like a building, employees, inventory, etc. What we don't see is the insurance, taxes, etc that also come out of the profits. In the end, we know they make good money but still go there to eat. If we feel like the cost is higher than the benefits derived, we don't go. We don't clamor for them to show us their balance sheets and tell us how much money they are making.
My longwinded point is: Tournaments are not "Volunteer, non-revenue generating events". They offer a product that is in some level of demand. High demand if it is perceived as a good value. Not so much of demand if the value is low.
Each of us have to determine, just like with going out to eat, if we get the value out of these tournaments.
Just as the with resturants, tournaments don't owe you a detailed explanation of their revenue and expense reports. They owe you a good value for the money you are spending. Hopefully each of you get that with each tournament you play in. Some may be a lot better value than others, but hopefully all are more valuable than what you pay for them.
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 15:31:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Bully
It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made.
I'm not complaining. (so maybe you are not directing the comment to me...) I actually said I thought them making 20-25 bucks off my kid, in return for the fun that was provided was a great value... |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 19:28:43
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Bully,
I am not sure if you are directing your comments to me or not...but I have not complained at all...I simply did the math and find it "INTERESTING" as to how much money is made at a tournament such as this. I have no post that suggest they charged too much on entry fees/gate fees....NO COMPLAINTS..just enjoy crunching numbers. And I find it amazing at the amount of money that can be made running a youth baseball tournament.
quote:
Originally posted by Bully
It really does not matter how much they make.....the bottom line is you have the choice to play in the tournament or not!!!!
They must be doing something right, they had a lot of teams playing! You made a decision to play, stop complaining abouth how much money they made.
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Edited by - mrbama31 on 03/23/2010 20:33:58 |
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kingofthehill
40 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 12:45:35
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| It's a business. Their job is to serve a quality product and make money. I sell flowers. And I will try to take every dollar I can because I work hard, I offer a above average product and service. I expect to make money. My clients know they could buy flowers cheaper somewhere else. But I have the best game in town. My advice is to stay home if you don't want to pay gate fees. These folks do this for a living in some cases and some are trying to make money for their team. It promopts travel ball. So I like anything that helps promote the game even if someone is making money off it. It's America, the only problem I hear or see is people complaining about 5 buck gate fees when they will spend 80 bucks at the movies for the family. 20 tourneys X $5 = $100 x 4 family members = $400 bucks per year...and that is way to the high side on average because most teams don't play 20 tourneys or take 4 paying family members. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 15:41:56
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| The King is Back. Long live the king. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 16:24:25
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King - Lest ye forget that the same Mom's & Dad's that have to fork over the ( +- ) $ 1,000 to $ 3,000 / year to have their kid play travel ball are the same ones having to pay the gate fee ? If it was just the gate fees alone, I'd gladly pay them and then some....but getting jacked on top of it is "salt in the wounds"...especially in this economy !
It would kinda be like you charging the bride ( hypothetical here so bear with me ! ), $ 6,000 for the flowers for her wedding....then her parents show up for the wedding and King is at the doors to the church, charging admission to her parents to watch their baby girl get married !
Go ahead and admit it King....you missed me didn't ya ? |
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GATE FEE
