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tombstone
30 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2009 : 14:10:30
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| papa,i want to agree with you about these team,and i think you are probably right,but what bothers me is that the ecb scorpions is the only team playing in the elite tourneys ,i know it is early but if you gonna play you better get in |
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baseballbrad
71 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 15:18:56
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Don't get worked up over the tourneys yet.It's the first week in Feb.I coach the Holly Springs Express and we plan to play most of the major events once our schedule is finalized.Also, we would be happy to host an invitational of the top teams in the area later this spring after they have been determined.As of yet no one has played a tournament and everything is just conjecture.I do like the excitement and look forward to seeing the studs from Gwinnett county I keep hearing about.
quote:
Originally posted by tombstone
papa,i want to agree with you about these team,and i think you are probably right,but what bothers me is that the ecb scorpions is the only team playing in the elite tourneys ,i know it is early but if you gonna play you better get in
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 15:19:13
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Triple Crown at ATP is a great venue if your a Cobb team, but not so much so if your not. That's why you'll see several teams in the Super NIT that you wont see at ATP. Lot's of teams only play 2 or 3 tourneys a year because they choose to play in a league, and dont want to put any more time or cash into it at this age. Player burn out can also be an issue. A few of these teams could compete quite well in the Spring Frost, they just choose venues closer to home, or that are an easier drive, or places they have had better experiences at. If the East-West connector had been built, there would have been a lot more teams traveling to Cobb County. I also hear folks say that TC could be more hospitable to non-Cobb teams. Perhaps its home cook'n they are referring to, not sure.
quote:
Originally posted by tombstone
papa,i want to agree with you about these team,and i think you are probably right,but what bothers me is that the ecb scorpions is the only team playing in the elite tourneys ,i know it is early but if you gonna play you better get in
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 22:28:32
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BASEBALLBRAD: "I do like the excitement and look forward to seeing the studs from Gwinnett county I keep hearing about".
There's a few that will raise your eyebrows, and a couple who will drop your jaw. Out of 800,000+ Gwinnettians, I wish I had more to boast about. All very humble boys from great families too.
You wont see any of them at TC's Spring Frost. Go to the Super NIT, and remember, there are no 10U Major teams from Gwinnett, so you'll have to watch some lowly AA/AAA teams to spot them.
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longhorn1
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 22:49:46
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I love the conjecture about home cooking. There is a national format to determine pool and bracket play. I hosted a USSSA event last year. ECB has nothing to do with the nuts and bolts of TC events. The facilities are rented to the organization for the scheduled event. Know one to my knowledge has an ax to grind. This is a business.
PS
I know that Gwinette has some strong teams and monster talent. I have heard lots of great stuff from the fall at atpp. Look forward to seeing you guys this season.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 09:51:28
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I think that its good news that Gwinett might have some good teams that can bring all the competition that we are looking for. How will they ever know if they might be the best if they do not play what has been proven to be the best. I heard a voice that said if you build it they will come. East Cobb and ATPP has built it and the big
boys came and continue to come. Every time we come to these venues we come expecting a war and preach to our kids to never let their guard down because all you find is good teams. I checked all spring records this morning and found that all the teams are 0-0 and its going to stay this way until we get it on and play the game. All the yak, yak, yak, and 70 mph fastballs, and 300 foot homeruns are harder to come by when you are playing the best the game has to offer in your age group. I say "LET THE GAMES BEGIN" |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 11:15:47
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Some tell me from this side of the Metro that they perceive the Cobb teams tend to get the best game times and pool draws. They also feel the umps are biased. Just telling you what I'm hearing, so dont shoot the messenger.
I did personally see an out-of-town Coach ejected for asking where a pitch missed the zone, while in the same tourney an EC Coach was openly arguing balls and strikes with the same ump who took no action. Just telling you what I saw. I wasn't close enough to hear every word, so there may have been some profanity that altered the way things looked from above. I have noticed our game times have stunk both tourneys my sons team played in EC. We've had better luck at the EC complex than the other venues they use.
How do you explain the fact that out of 79 teams now registered to play the TC Spring Frost, only 4 are from Georgia's most populated County (Gwinnett)? Don't you find that strange?
quote:
Originally posted by longhorn1
I love the conjecture about home cooking. There is a national format to determine pool and bracket play. I hosted a USSSA event last year. ECB has nothing to do with the nuts and bolts of TC events. The facilities are rented to the organization for the scheduled event. Know one to my knowledge has an ax to grind. This is a business.
PS
I know that Gwinette has some strong teams and monster talent. I have heard lots of great stuff from the fall at atpp. Look forward to seeing you guys this season.
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homerunking
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 15:07:25
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| How many 9u teams did the Bandits lose to last year from this area? Not saying that they are not unbeatable...But they were beating 10u Major teams last year..I'd be willing to say they will have to have a bad day to not win one they are in!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 17:26:39
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| Bandits only lost 4 games to 9U teams last year. 1 to the Gulf Coast Lightning at the Super NIT in Alabama 1 to Kennesaw at the Georgia Super NIT in a super game (came back and won 9 games in a row to win the Super NIT) and 2 to the San Diego Stars at Disney. But there were several teams and many games that could have went either way that the Bandits were fortunate enough to win and smart enough to know that there are many teams out there capable of beating us. I want to hear more about these Gwinnett teams. If you want to claim to be the best then you must play the best. I heard someone say that there is no crying in baseball. Bandits have been coming to East Cobb and ATPP for several years and have always been treated with respect and fairness. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 19:24:17
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Since this topic is teams under the radar, I don't think the Bandits qualify. Who might surprise the Bandits?
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
How many 9u teams did the Bandits lose to last year from this area? Not saying that they are not unbeatable...But they were beating 10u Major teams last year..I'd be willing to say they will have to have a bad day to not win one they are in!!!!!!!!!!!!
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 09:19:04
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| How do you know who might be under the radar if these under the radar teams don't want to play. Sort of like an old neighborhood kid I used to know. If we played by his rules and chose the teams so that he would always win he kept coming. When the teams were chosen the right way and he lost a few he took the only baseball we had and went home. Most of the good teams make it no secret where they are going to be so find them and see how good you are. After you play in a couple of tournaments with the best teams around you will no longer be under the radar. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 11:07:26
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Baseball Papa said: "I want to hear more about these Gwinnett teams. If you want to claim to be the best then you must play the best. I heard someone say that there is no crying in baseball. Bandits have been coming to East Cobb and ATPP for several years and have always been treated with respect and fairness".
Here is more about these Gwinnett 10U teams:
90% of Gwinnett team are formed like Little League's. Strictly limited geographical area (for Gwinnett its our High School cluster boundary which is even smaller than Little League's). Look at the names of our teams: Mill Creek (High School), Norcross (High School), Dacula (High School), North Gwinnett (High School), Collins Hill (High School), Duluth (High School)ect..all feeder teams T-ball through H.S.
In High School, there's A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA size classes. The same thing goes for our feeder teams. If your playing Buford, your playing boys from an "AA" feeder system. Buford has 1 Elementary school to recruit from. Mill Creek is the largest (AAAAA) they have 7, so Mill Creek will be stronger.
Some of our AAAAA feeders have 2nd teams, which weakens them. You'll see Mill Creek-Red and Mill Creek-Gold. When you see a color behind the Gwinnett team name, we've diluted them. Our AAAAA teams w/o a color designation are as close to the little league talent pool size we can get.
So, we are comparing apples to watermelons. Gwinnett "travel" teams are "little league" almost's from 1 park who play a few tourneys around their 19 game league (GGBL) season. We are much closer to all star teams than travel teams.
Watching Gwinnett teams play real travel teams (as you know them) answers the question "who would win Cooperstown, or Little League?"
I NEVER claimed Gwinnett youth travel teams are the best
In fact, we're inferior by County design. Ck my posts. I DID say, the 3 best 10U players in the ATL metro are from Gwinnett.
When our boys reach High School, it becomes apples to apples. Brookwood High beat Walton last year for the State title. Loganville and Wesleyan High are also 2008 State Champs from Gwinnett.
"you have to play the best"
Gwinnett feeder teams' GGBL season begin Feb 27th. Its nearly impossible for them to play in the TC Spring Frost, Forsyth Slugfest, or Super NIT. A small handful have overcome huge obstacles to enter.
"Bandits being treated fairly and with great respect"
Is that your view, or theirs? 1 Bandit parent told me "we have to beat all the other teams and the umps everywhere we go to win".
All this having been said. A few of our Gwinnett feeder teams do manage to beat travel teams who have unlimited recruiting areas. Now and then, Little League beats Cooperstown! Because we're David taking on Goliath (till High School), I'm careful not to provide more specific scouting info on our teams, or players for folks to use against us. We have enough to overcome already.
Please know that when you see 90% of our Gwinnett teams in a tourney between Feb 27th and June 15th, we've pulled lots of strings with our County, our league, and our local park orgs just to be permitted to attend. We have to go to great lengths internally, just to face Goliath. Each time I see a Gwinnett team win a tourney game, I see an angel getting its wings!
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homerunking
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 12:05:45
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| Bmsor only problem with that question is how many teams will want to play in the same tournament with thm? Also how may other 10 Major teams will play in best tournaments around that they can..Bandits won every stste they were in in 9u... |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 14:55:27
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| BMoser, I am not trying to be controversial but most counties have other leagues and feeder programs similiar to the ones you are describing in Gwinnett County but are still able to build a strong travel team. Our kids are not forced to play in this park or feeder program. No one holds a gun to their heads or throws them out of school if they choose to play on a travel team. I guess all I am trying to say is that there is a clear choice to be made. You play in the feeder program or you play elite travel ball. Two different choices and certainly two different levels of talent. What would happen if someone could pull Buford, Mill Creek, Dacula, Brookwood and build one contending travel team. Would you be suspended from school, washed out in the league or tar and feathered. If there are consequences then I would agree that you are playing with one hand behind your back but if there are no consequences then it is all a matter of choice. With the base population of Gwinnett they should always be among the top level of whatever they choose to play. My point is only this "To be considered to be the best, you must play the best." Case in point, The top 10U baseball team in America seems to be the Carolina Angels and we are trying our best to find a way to find where they are, get on the field with them and see how we stack up against the best. How any other Bandit parent perceives our treatment, I have been around baseball a lot longer than most and I stand my by statement that the East Cobb program and the ATPP staff have always treated us with fairness and respect. You have got to beat them all to hoist that championship trophy and I have never believed that the draw could beat you by itself. Umpires are bad wherever I seem to go and some of the parents say that I have never met a umpire that I liked. What can I say? |
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baseball99
89 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 17:41:35
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
How do you know who might be under the radar if these under the radar teams don't want to play. Sort of like an old neighborhood kid I used to know. If we played by his rules and chose the teams so that he would always win he kept coming. When the teams were chosen the right way and he lost a few he took the only baseball we had and went home. Most of the good teams make it no secret where they are going to be so find them and see how good you are. After you play in a couple of tournaments with the best teams around you will no longer be under the radar.
The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages when considering a Triple Crown tourney for someone from areas other than East Cobb. Say what you want but you are fighting an uphill battle if you are not from the East Cobb area playing in one of these. I've seen it with Gwinnett teams and teams from other areas. It's impossible for those of you East Cobbers with your head stuck in your batbags to see it but Bmoser is right on the money. On top of everything else, the first place hardware is pitiful at best. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 20:12:29
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If you want to sit out the Forsyth Slugfest or Super NIT because a few feeder Gwinnett teams found a way to play, then take a pass. Sorry we're diluting your tourneys. We're trying to play up to get better and overcome our pathetic County system. We are what we are because its County policy. Trust me, its not by choice. You guys have it made not having shackles around your feet like we do. Count your blessings.
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
Bmsor only problem with that question is how many teams will want to play in the same tournament with thm? Also how may other 10 Major teams will play in best tournaments around that they can..Bandits won every stste they were in in 9u...
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 07:19:12
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Baseball Papa:
Our problem is that the fields/parks are tightly controlled by the County, and their feeder program athletic orgs. There's no place to practice. There are too few exceptions to mention.
The park orgs wont even let non-county sanctioned teams schedule a practice on Sundays. They say its first come first serve on Sundays, but the second a sanctioned team shows up, they WILL ask you to leave, and WILL call the COUNTY police if you don't. A group of us took this to the Director of P&R, and she said "if it were up to me, there would not even be a County travel program!" She was zero help. So I went to the County commission. Minutia to them, no help. Saturday, I became a Gwinnett County Republican party delegate and Precinct leader so I will have a say in nominating future county Commissioners.
So let's say I get some traction, most of these fields/parks are so overcrowded, most County sanctioned teams only get 1 field practice a week. My sons Pee Wee team shared a field with 23 other teams! 16-20 is the norm. Fields are packed like sardines in a can.
You gotta live here to see how bad it is. I'm lucky, I live along the river, thus Forsyth County is a stones throw away, so we've left for Greener pastures...just like McCann and Francoeur. |
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homerunking
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 07:49:45
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| So what you are saying is that NO ONE could put together one elite team and go play wherever they wanted? |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:48:41
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I have to call BS on this one BMOSER;
EC has 4 10u teams and there were Aprox. 75 kids that came to tryouts this fall.
I would bet that each park in " THE LARGEST MOST POPULATED COUNTY IN GA" That you have talked about has TRIPLE the talent pool to pull from in each park??
Lets take a look at a 20 mile radius around EC, you have Kenn , 643 , Holly Springs , Cherokee Reds , Hobgood , Team Wilson , Sandy Plains , Powder Springs , East Side , Oregon Park , Wills Park...And im probably missing 1 or 2
All Travel teams, and each Organization has 2 to 3 teams in the 10u age group. Im not even talking about ALL the Rec Teams in this area.
AND Everytime we (EC) play at ANY park we have to play the same screwed schedules/game times you are talking about. We always get paired against the other EC teams or Kenn. or 643 or the bandits ETC. in pool play while the host or local teams get the cup cakes ! Happens every year at every tourney! We like it and feel it just makes us better down the road just like "pappa" says.
So lets quit whinning about unfair advantages and just play ball. |
Edited by - BBall123 on 02/09/2009 08:50:29 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:09:29
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Baseball 99 said that the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages when considering a Triple Crown tourney for someone from areas other than East Cobb. Say what you want but you are fighting an uphill battle if you are not from the East Cobb area playing in one of these. I've seen it with Gwinnett teams and teams from other areas. It's impossible for those of you East Cobbers with your head stuck in your batbags to see it but Bmoser is right on the money. On top of everything else, the first place hardware is pitiful at best.
OK, I admit it Papa is getting older and I completely don't understand why Gwinnett teams are at a disadvantage. I am most likely in the early stages of the disease that makes you forget things. (I forgot the name of the disease). I need you or BMoser to explain it to me slowly so I can understand. With many of the best players in each age group in your county why can you not find the best players and build one or two great teams. What would happen if you as parents chose to do this. What keeps you from doing this? I am an American and I have earned my rights by serving my country and I find it hard to believe that if 10 great baseball players wanted to play baseball together that any county in this great country could deny them that right. All I am asking is that if you built this team what would be the penalty or punishment you would endure.
I am not a East Cobber and never have been although my head has got stuck in the bat bag several times.
Also is it just the Triple Crown tourneys that you have problems playing because there are many other tournaments that the best teams play in (USSSA, BPA, AAU, and many others.) The treatment you get being an out of town team comes with playing. It is just part of what you should expect and prepare for when you enter someone's tournament and they look for ways on paper to knock you out before they have to face you. I will even share the secret of how to overcome this. You take what they throw at you, You beat it down one game at a time and in a few games you will see that you are now matched with the host, You play the best game of your life, beat that which you perceived slighted you, advance to the championship game while they begin to clean the park up.
If you are playing for the trophy then you have lost sight of the dream. The dream should be preparing these children for the next level so that they can advance as far as their hearts and talent will take them. We don't like the little bat either but we appreciate the opportunity of playing the best teams in the State to be able to take it home with us. I put a piece of cardboard on our bat and use it as a fly swatter. I guess I have admitted that TC is cheap when it comes to the trophy.
Good luck to you and BMoser and I hope that your County will ease the restrictions that have been placed on your teams. It could only help us if we could go to battle with the best teams Gwinnett could put together. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:21:20
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| Did the Grip not win an 11U tournament this fall? Didn't they pick up 2 flame throwers from 9U last year? I know I saw one hitting over 60 on my radar gun because I was holding it. Unless I am confusing teams you better watch out for this team. Bandits, 6-4-3, Grip. |
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jscoda
123 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:27:18
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Just FYI
The Scorpions are very good. Solid defensively. Good coaching. Some big hitters and several good pitchers. I would not underestimate this team. Could be your sleeper. A very organized group with athletic talent. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:29:37
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I'll answer your question with a question of my own...
Have you EVER seen ANY Elite non-County sanctioned travel teams from Gwinnett??? They'd be easy to spot because all the sanctioned teams are named after high schools. Mill Creek, Collins Hill, North Gwinnett, ect.. I've never seen one, but I've only been around for 5 years, and I'm quite focused on my sons 10U group. I know a lot, but don't know it all. If anyone out there know of one in any age group, please let me know because I'd like to follow and support them.
If a Coach owned enough land in rural Gwinnett to have a field, then yes, he could TRY to build an ELITE travel team and play wherever they wanted to. Land is $100,000/acre and luring top players away from the feeder teams would be no easy task.
quote:
Originally posted by homerunking
So what you are saying is that NO ONE could put together one elite team and go play wherever they wanted?
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:58:55
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BBALL: It has nothing to do with the lack of talent, its the lack of fields. Gwinnett has no complexes like East Cobb's or ATP. The County will not approve zoning for it, I've tried. The County does not allow travel ball tourneys on their county-owned fields either. How many travel tourneys do you see in Gwinnett?
quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
I have to call BS on this one BMOSER;
EC has 4 10u teams and there were Aprox. 75 kids that came to tryouts this fall.
I would bet that each park in " THE LARGEST MOST POPULATED COUNTY IN GA" That you have talked about has TRIPLE the talent pool to pull from in each park??
Lets take a look at a 20 mile radius around EC, you have Kenn , 643 , Holly Springs , Cherokee Reds , Hobgood , Team Wilson , Sandy Plains , Powder Springs , East Side , Oregon Park , Wills Park...And im probably missing 1 or 2
All Travel teams, and each Organization has 2 to 3 teams in the 10u age group. Im not even talking about ALL the Rec Teams in this area.
AND Everytime we (EC) play at ANY park we have to play the same screwed schedules/game times you are talking about. We always get paired against the other EC teams or Kenn. or 643 or the bandits ETC. in pool play while the host or local teams get the cup cakes ! Happens every year at every tourney! We like it and feel it just makes us better down the road just like "pappa" says.
So lets quit whinning about unfair advantages and just play ball.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 10:18:55
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baseballpapa:
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I thank God all counties do not run their youth baseball like Gwinnett. Thanks to all the other venues that hold open tourneys so our boys can see what real travel ball is all about, and compete with the best. Thanks to NWBA and LBL for giving our boys an alternative for those willing to make the drive like I do. Thanks to all you folks who take us in and let our boys play on your fields. I'm sorry Gwinnett wont return the favor by hosting tourneys for you to come play on our fields, or allow us to build such a place for ourselves to have you come to. Its sad.
We had our 1st scrimmage yesterday (in Forsyth) which makes it all fade away. We invited some Gwinnett boys over, and a great time was had by all. Thanks to the City of Cumming for making it possible.
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10U TEAMS UNDER THE RADAR
