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Titan1
210 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:36:07
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| bmoser: I have several kids on my team that throw a weird change up but they have been told over and over again to throw it like a fastball. Never once I they been told ( and I have asked) to break their wrist.They where taught a grip and told throw it like a fastball with the same arm motion. We checked with a local doctor at a sports medicine hospital and he thought it was fine. The pitch was taught to my kids by a coach who is a local pitching coach. He was told when we first started to talk about teaching them a second pitch that I did not want them to throw curves for at least the next couple of years. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 08:12:39
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| Back in Papa's day to throw the curve you would snap or turn your wrist. I have seen some of the professional pitching instructors teach what some call the football pitch which is held and thrown like you throw the football. This is a wicked pitch if thrown right but I do not really know if it is hurting the child's arm or not. I am not a professional in this field but most of the coaches that I know would not ever put a child in peril of hurting his arm knowing that this was being done. but then again if the Coaches and/or parents are being misinformed then this is the place to get the correct information on record. The East Cobb Coaches looked at this pitch during one of the tryouts last year and thought at first that it was a curve and would not allow it to be thrown but then after a closer look they agreed that it was not putting pressure on the child's arm. I am not saying that any pitch is right or wrong. I am only saying that we need to make the right call on this one and not be guessing. |
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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 08:47:18
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Hey clubhouse, while the coaches are partialy to blame, you also have to place some ( I think the majority ) of the blame on the parents.
Unless they are completely ignorant of anything to do with baseball and are placeing complete trust in the coach,then it is their responsibility to stand up to the coach and stop it.
Stud daddies reliving their glory years through their sons who are too macho to listen to reason and common sense.
Five or Six years from now when their kids arm is shot and they have no chance of making the High School team, this same dad will be blaming the little league coach for "overpitching" his son. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 14:56:41
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Titan1,
I like that approach. Alter the grip to see what movement you can get, but throw it exactly like a fastball. |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 19:56:59
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| Couple of things to think about when teaching kids pitching. First off is mechanics, if your mechanics are off I do not care what kinda of pitch you throw it will end up putting extreme pressure on places in your shoulder and elbow you do not want it to. I firmly believe that pitching at least until you hit puberty should be done under adult supervision, and really until they are done with all the growing they are going to do. The second you tell Johnny to go warm up and pitch with out supervision he will be cranking his body in postions you never thought possible, kids are kids. Speaking from many years of experience with the only thing that has affected my arm which is old age. Kids need to through strikes first, never teach him an off speed pitch if he cannot get a strike over the plate, you will be creating more chances for error. When he can throw a strike and locate it, then introduce a STRAIGHT change, which is a fast ball form and arm motion with a slightly different grip, Several different grips out there according to the size of the little guys hand. Some of these kids through a great straight change with a four fingered choked grip over the horseshoe seam. Once your guy can master the straight change motion, then location of it you can move onto other things. Critical here to master the mechanics and the confidence. The confidence part is a piece many coaches never address in pitching. I f you get to this point you may have a good little pitcher on you hands that does not have arm trouble, good mechanics, and throws Strikes. This is a process you cannot rush. Some kids take to it and others take longer - coaching involved here. Now you have something to work with and can introduce other ways to make the ball move. Another important note and coaching note here - with two pitches that can be thrown for strikes, teach the little guy when and where to throw them, do not leave him out there to wonder. Now you fool with the movement of the ball with two seams, fourseams, the horseshoe etc. DO this by changing finger pressure on the index or the middle finger. Please do not do this by changing arm angles and twisting motions. An inside fastball with movement either way is just as effective as a cranked out curve. A fast ball that looks outside and comes back to kiss the corner is a pull hitters nightmare. See where I am going here. You can now teach the kid more pitching, placement and movement, how to read batters, positional pitching etc... By now someone has said to you, wow he is a good pitcher, when is he going to throw a curve? I suggest having a curve in the arsenal after puberty, no matter what a win at all cost coach or an over bearing parent wants to do when the kid is little, do not do it until he is older. I do not care how good an athelete he is or how mature you think he is, do not do it, he is still a kid. Sorry to rant a little but I know many pitchers who are very successful and the curve ball is way down the list of pitches to throw. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 23:37:05
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| This Highcheese guy makes a lot of sense to me. Confidence and Pitch selection. Quite simple. Nice post! I like learning from this site as much as I like spewing. |
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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 08:24:39
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Great post Highcheese.
In case anyone is wondering why Dr.'s recomend waiting until puberty to start throwing breaking balls, that is the point at which the growth plate in the elbow turns from cartilage into solid bone.
Here is a link to an extremely informative video from Dr. David Marshal at Childrens Healthcare of Atlanta.
http://www.clubhousegas.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=135 |
Edited by - Peanutsr on 04/20/2009 08:48:50 |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 23:46:17
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| I will check it out. Tell your guys at that age to drink some milk once in awhile too, Toughen up those bones. Just another point guys. these kids at 9, 10, and 11 are all gumbies and have no clue as to stretching and warming up the muscles and keeping them warm. Us old guys have to stretch in order to get a cup of coffee. try to teach them early the fundamentals of stretching properly too. When they hit that puberty curtain they will sure thank you for the training. An often forgotten part of little kids sports |
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CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:32:58
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quote:
Originally posted by highcheese
Couple of things to think about when teaching kids pitching. First off is mechanics, if your mechanics are off I do not care what kinda of pitch you throw it will end up putting extreme pressure on places in your shoulder and elbow you do not want it to. I firmly believe that pitching at least until you hit puberty should be done under adult supervision, and really until they are done with all the growing they are going to do. The second you tell Johnny to go warm up and pitch with out supervision he will be cranking his body in postions you never thought possible, kids are kids. Speaking from many years of experience with the only thing that has affected my arm which is old age. Kids need to through strikes first, never teach him an off speed pitch if he cannot get a strike over the plate, you will be creating more chances for error. When he can throw a strike and locate it, then introduce a STRAIGHT change, which is a fast ball form and arm motion with a slightly different grip, Several different grips out there according to the size of the little guys hand. Some of these kids through a great straight change with a four fingered choked grip over the horseshoe seam. Once your guy can master the straight change motion, then location of it you can move onto other things. Critical here to master the mechanics and the confidence. The confidence part is a piece many coaches never address in pitching. I f you get to this point you may have a good little pitcher on you hands that does not have arm trouble, good mechanics, and throws Strikes. This is a process you cannot rush. Some kids take to it and others take longer - coaching involved here. Now you have something to work with and can introduce other ways to make the ball move. Another important note and coaching note here - with two pitches that can be thrown for strikes, teach the little guy when and where to throw them, do not leave him out there to wonder. Now you fool with the movement of the ball with two seams, fourseams, the horseshoe etc. DO this by changing finger pressure on the index or the middle finger. Please do not do this by changing arm angles and twisting motions. An inside fastball with movement either way is just as effective as a cranked out curve. A fast ball that looks outside and comes back to kiss the corner is a pull hitters nightmare. See where I am going here. You can now teach the kid more pitching, placement and movement, how to read batters, positional pitching etc... By now someone has said to you, wow he is a good pitcher, when is he going to throw a curve? I suggest having a curve in the arsenal after puberty, no matter what a win at all cost coach or an over bearing parent wants to do when the kid is little, do not do it until he is older. I do not care how good an athelete he is or how mature you think he is, do not do it, he is still a kid. Sorry to rant a little but I know many pitchers who are very successful and the curve ball is way down the list of pitches to throw.
Are there nominations for Post of the Year? If so, this is my nominee. |
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Boss Power
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 22:57:35
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| I had a chance to see the Stixx play this weekend, that team swings the bat. They lost to Holly Springs one time, it should have been twice. They got some help from some BAD UMPS. But I would luv to see Stixx and The Bandits get together. P.S. Watch out for the Southern Dodgers I think the are getting it together. |
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clubhousebaseball1
13 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 13:01:06
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| I have to agree with highcheese. Good thoughts and insight. |
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2009 10U Competition
