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baseballcrazymom
58 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2013 : 08:45:41
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Oh no.
And at 16u too. The only thing we can do at this point is not push too much and switch things up so it's not GTA 24/7.
First warning sign for us was grades. Still good by most standards, but not up to normal.
Still shows signs of wanting to win and a competitive spirit, but not interested in winter workouts "of the baseball kind" at all. Said something about not having a social life, but hasn't made much of an effort the last couple weeks to get one either. Has agreed to another sport this winter as an aerobic workout plus a couple of non sport/non school related hobby type things to get him out of the house.
Looking back, there has been only a few weeks in July and a few weeks in November off each year since August 2009. Time well spent as the skill set has improved 1000% and he's beginning to get noticed, but now wondering the final cost. The timing is TERRIBLE.
Will not force the issue but rather explain the importance of getting that arm back in shape before HS tryouts at the end of January. 6-7 weeks lead time good for that?
Would love to hear from those parents with older players who went through this and the final outcome.
Want to warn the parents on the 11-14u boards that the constant redundancy about who the best team is and who is going to win (usually out of the same 5-10 teams) week in and week out might not should be your primary focus. Think about that for a minute. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 10:11:33
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Tough situation baseballcrazymom. Give him some time off. Let him unwind and get away from the game for a couple months. My son would go thru periods like that. He started playing travel at 12 and basically every spring summer and fall was taken up with baseball. I tried to let him get away from baseball during October, November and part of December as much as I could to combat some of that.
I have also noticed with him that almost all of his friends are non baseball people. I think that is what helped him gain some separation from the grind. He never really wanted to just stop, but has made comments over the years that he has missed out on a lot of stuff over the years because of baseball. It was hard for him to go with his friends on the holidays because he had baseball stuff to do. All our vacations were always going to a baseball tournament somewhere. The most prominent time that comes to mind was the Christmas break during his junior year. He and I went to a PG showcase down in Ft. Myers. He understood that it was important in order gain some exposure to play in college, but he was very conflicted about it. He made it through and is currently playing in college.
I understand that it is important to work hard, keep in shape, be ready for the spring season, etc... But if it pushes the player away from the game, it's not doing any good anyway. Like I said, let him take time off. Let him be a kid the rest of this month and maybe a couple weeks in December. Then see how he's feeling and start preparing for the spring. If he loves the game, he will be fine. If he decides he doesn't want to come back from it, it just wasn't meant to be. College baseball is a grind. Practice and workouts 5 days a week, 3 or 4 hours a day in the fall and then practice and games 6 days a week in the spring with travel and school and everything else. They only get one day a week off. If he stays burnt out, he will never make it through that anyway.
It is a balance. I can't imagine kids now a days doing this from 7 or 8 years old. It needs to remain fun. The kids need a break now and then. The summer after my son's senior year he decided to take a break to nurse a sore elbow before college ball started. It was his first summer off from baseball since he was 11 in rec ball. He came back with a renewed spirit. He's a pitcher, so he had a lot of dialing in to do, but he really wanted to do it. Worked hard, struggled some, played summer ball again this past summer and has been doing much better this fall with his stuff. Hang in there and good luck to you and your son. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 10:33:10
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Haven't been there yet personally, still have to fight the 15u to keep him away from workouts when he's so sick he can't see straight, but at this age it pretty much has to be up to them in the end. I know a couple of older boys who are talented baseball players who've essentially reached this point because of other HS sports becoming their goal and a couple more who walked away when HS was over because they weren't interested in the college grind even though they could have played. I think you've got to love the work as much as the actual game in order to really move forward from here (true in more than just baseball, of course).
As to your practical questions, getting your arm ready in January shouldn't be a huge problem, I think it's pretty standard to shut down throwing now until then anyway. I wouldn't want to hit tryouts with no overall conditioning for several months, but sounds like you might have that covered with the other sport. I'd be more worried about skipping workouts if they're associated with the school program, though. That's definitely going to be a detriment. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 11:19:23
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| This is a splash of cold water in the face to all of us. It is my biggest fear. Thanks for sharing. |
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jmac83
46 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 11:44:47
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My son is a couple of years behind yours in age, so I can't offer any useful parental perspective to you. However, having hit that 16-year-old fatigue before myself ...
I'd suggest backing way off, baseball-wise. Communicate your expectations for doing well in school and not filling his down time with digital play, but don't push or even suggest baseball activities. Show him that baseball doesn't define him for you, and let him find his own way back to the sport if that's where his heart lies.
It's been my experience that many guys who lament later in life that their parents didn't insist they stick with a sport once their passion started to wane are utilizing revisionist history. In fact, they'd have resented the hell out of their parents for doing so. |
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baseballcrazymom
58 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 12:10:41
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Thanks guys. No school related workouts being offered (the hitting building may open up in January), but he's missing out on his summer 2014 travel team workouts this winter which may or may not be a big deal. Won't really know until next May about that. His primary interest is playing HS ball. We've always taken things one year at a time so we will continue that path and cross that travel ball bridge when it gets here. I kind of feel that if he skips out on summer ball next year that even his HS career will be in jeopardy afterward. I'm I being paranoid?
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 12:52:38
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| Fall should not affect the summer travel thing. If he can contribute in the summer, he will play. Regardless, there are plenty of summer teams out there that always need players. Summer is WAY too far away to be worried about yet. He's a 16 yr old kid. He could be over this tomorrow. Lol. You have no idea what he will want to do by next summer. I wouldn't worry about it yet. What grade is he in? Sophomore or Junior? If he's a sophomore this year, taking a summer off won't kill him in terms of the recruiting schedule. If he's a junior this year, it will be a bigger deal. Usually Juniors play 17u, so I'm guessing he's a sophomore. He should be fine. Like I said, let him take some time off and figure some things out. It may do him a world of good. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 13:12:33
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| I would think that would depend on the HS and his history there so far. Assuming he's a sophomore and made the team last year at some level, this should be the one year he can let the off-season slide a little and still get away with it. Skipping out on the rising-Junior travel season before heading into Varsity tryouts seems like it would be a mistake at any reasonably large school. That would probably be the case even if he's already made Varsity before that point, because the other Juniors he'll be competing with are going to be getting better. I know over the next two seasons at my son's school the age demographics of the players look to be making for some really tough cuts on rising Juniors. |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 15:25:46
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BB-mom, we have been there before with our son.
By the way it’s not paranoia, you just know more about how to plan for college than he does.
We wanted our son to keep all his options open and to use baseball as an additional tool to get to the school that he wanted to attend.
Consider this:
• What do you think he is burned out on, playing the sport or the importance that we put on it?
If it’s playing the sport then you may have a struggle on your hands to keep him interested. If it’s the latter then you can explain to him that depending on the school that he wants to go to the Hope Scholarship only pays so much. His goal should be to use every resource he has available (good grades, community involvement, baseball talent, etc.) to build his resume to compete against other students who are trying to get into whatever school he is looking to attend.
• Where does he want to go to school? If it’s a big D1 program and he thinks that his skill set does not measure up, then in his mind he may be thinking why bother anymore.
All too often boys who want to go to UGA, GA Tech, KSU, GSU, etc. or any D1 program will abandon their dream because they cannot see how they can play at this school. This is just an observation, I don’t know you or your son so I do not want you to think I am trying to disparage his abilities. There are a lot of schools that offer baseball. Your son has to find the right fit and prepare himself for that opportunity.
There are 297 colleges and universities participating in NCAA Division I baseball.
There are 242 schools participating in NCAA Division II baseball.
NCAA Division III baseball consists of 408 programs at colleges and universities (no scholarships offered but they find you money from other sources to play)
NAIA baseball consists of 214 member schools
NJCAA Division II baseball includes 130 two-year colleges
NJCAA Division II baseball includes 130 two-year colleges
NJCAA Division III consists of 79 junior colleges
Our message to our son was to use every tool in his tool belt to get to the school he wanted to attend and that baseball is a means to an end, not the end game. Because of Hope more kids are able to go to college now and it has gotten more competitive to get there. Schools are looking for well-rounded applicants. We wanted our son to keep his options open and in the end baseball helped him to get his Scholars Appointment to the Coast Guard Academy. Your average 16 year old does not understand this, but this is why we parents place such an importance on sports when we “think” there is a chance our child can play college sports.
When the time comes he will identify which schools he wants to go to. If they have a need that year for his position(s) or talents then baseball, grades, character, etc. will help push him over the top.
Also, playing or not playing HS baseball does not have a “real” effect on whether he can or will play college baseball.
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baseballcrazymom
58 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 16:12:35
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Bill: I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "Where does he want to go to school? If it’s a big D1 program and he thinks that his skill set does not measure up, then in his mind he may be thinking why bother anymore."
That could be it. The fall program he just finished had players who do nothing but talk of D1. I'd say 1/3 of the "players" grades 10-12 from his HS play for this program, 1/3 play for another top program in the metro Atlanta area, and the other 1/3 play for fringe programs or not at all in the fall (some don't even play in the summer because football).
I think he freaked out a little. Here's the catch 22...if he doesn't keep the GPA really high, the D1 school first choice (Ga Tech) won't be an option without baseball and he may wish he was still playing ball for whatever D2/D3 school he ends up at. A lot to think about isn't it? |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 21:03:05
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| If he doesn't want to play, he shouldn't have to play... It should be his choice. The amount of money given to baseball players in college is miniscule compared to the other aid/scholarship money available for college students. Too many parents trying to live their kids life for them. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 10:11:23
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My son went through this phase a bit around 13-14U. I've since shared with him that during those years...i really thought he was done with baseball, he flat out sucked compared to his previous 6 years in travel ball. He never quit or gave up and played summer and fall ball but his interest and work ethic had faded. At 15U he hit his stride going to a new team and never gave up on the game. This summer he hit 89 and now at 17 in his junior year has a D1 offer on the table right now and has an Ivy League and Big 10 school wanting him to visit this fall after seeing him in Ft Myers in October. What a change. :)
Every kid is different, he will come back to the game if he really loves it. I would suggest getting him in touch with some college aged or newly graduated college players in the area to talk about the sport and what they went through. He may find that he isn't that different from them and they may offer that unique peer perspective that strikes a chord with him. My son was at BP a few weeks ago and not this story applies to your son, but a local player was sharing his story with them. He was a smaller kid in HS, and was told by his coaches after TJ surgery..they probably couldn't get him any looks for college. He didn't accept this after graduating in 2005 and went on to a JUCO, then KSU. He got bigger, a bit taller and worked out and put on weight and was drafted in 2009 by the Tigers. While he threw 81-82 in HS, he got up to 87-88 before he left that JUCO. Now he is throwing in the 90's and playing for the Tigers AAA organization in Toledo. Here is a story on him:
http://www.ledgernews.com/sports/article_83573bcb-23e8-5a89-8135-cc9251793703.html?mode=jqm
As T mentions above, D1 schools don't have full rides for baseball. They usually have 28 scholarships to offer to about 35 players. 25% is usually the minimum offer. Some on the team will pay full tuition to play. The more your son gets above the 25% the more of a chance he will get the chance to play. Now i look at all the money we spent on travel ball and estimate that it could save us $80k in college expenses. I know we have spent alot since he started in travel ball at 7U but it probably isnt more than $30k including fees, equipment, meals and travel. Now the TIME we spent..well, there isn't a number/value i can put on that but it is turning out to be priceless and worth every penny. I hope your son loves the game, never gives up and hits his stride. |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 11/06/2013 11:24:42 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 12:37:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
As T mentions above, D1 schools don't have full rides for baseball. They usually have 28 scholarships to offer to about 35 players. 25% is usually the minimum offer. Some on the team will pay full tuition to play.
Not true. D1 schools have exactly 11.7 scholarships to offer to up to 27 players. D1 roster limit is 35 players. There will be a minimum of 8 players that will not have any baseball money on every team. 25% is the minimum a D1 team can give a player and they can - but rarely do - give up to 100%. For D2 schools, they have 9 scholarships to give their baseball players. They do not have a roster limit and do not have a minimum that they can give to a player. They can give as little as say 5% up to - but rarely do - 100%. D3 schools do not offer any athletic money. Any money you get to go to school there will be purely academic money. I'm not really sure about the rules surrounding JUCO and NAIA.
Just wanted to clarify. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 16:24:51
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| bball, you are right....i made an error, 11.7 to spread across about 27 players. My son's offer is 55%. Nice catch. |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 11/06/2013 18:32:15 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 19:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
bball, you are right....i made an error, 11.7 to spread across about 27 players. My son's offer is 55%. Nice catch.
55% is a very good offer. Congratulations to your son!! Let us know how things turn out. Has he accepted, or is he considering other schools? Let us know how things turn out. NLI signing day is soon. Will he be signing in this early period? |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 07:29:09
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| Regarding NLI dates, He is a junior and will start college 2015-2106 so not yet. He hasn't accepted but is leaning that way. He wants to visit a few other schools to compare the offer, campus, coaches and roles or opportunity to compete for time as a freshman. I hear that schools are locking up pitchers earlier and earlier these days as opposed to the summer of player's junior year being the prime time to get offers and commit? This is a crazy time and can be a bit stressful trying to make the best decision. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 09:28:18
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| Yes it is stressful. You will feel a BIG relief when your son finally makes the decision. Yes and no to the early thing. Yes, the big schools are trying to wrap up the studs earlier and earlier. Especially pitchers. Your son must be good. No in the sense that there is still a lot of recruiting to be done summer after junior year. People shouldn't get discouraged if they haven't been offered prior to summer after junior year. Recruiters are still looking for kids at that point. Once again, good luck to your son. Let us know when he makes a decision. It's an exciting time. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 14:57:11
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My son decided to give up a sport this year. Fortunately he gave up basketball He was almost assured of being the starting center on the freshman team and a good chance of playing on the JV team. Although I was disappointed, it was his choice. When I asked why he did not want to go out for the team, he said he wanted some time to be a kid. So this winter he will not play any competitive sports. he will do speed and agility training and some lifting in the weight room as prep for the spring baseball season. But he will have a lot of free weekends to enjoy being a teenager.
He was plenty of time to turn a sport into a job.
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 15:29:16
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Critical: I know teams don't give full rides to HS players.
The point I was trying to make was that recruited players have to put together a package to present to teams. Part of that package is grades. Getting the in-state Hope and being eligible for academic grants and loans will allow college coaches to split those 11.7 scholarships even more. The latter of which will allow you son to look at schools outside of Georgia. It will also make you son more attractive to college coaches.
It’s never too late to be recruited. Because of the nature of the school we were told by VMI that they recruit players up to the summer just before their freshmen year. A player on his 18U summer team get a JC offer at the end of Summer Ball.
Also, the amount of money we spent on travel over the years was very much worth it. If he wasn't playing baseball or sports it would have been Boy Scouts or some other club thing. Our goal was to make a well round young'n.
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 17:33:36
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Yeah Bill, the way i look at the time and money spent on his baseball over the years is he has stayed very busy, and that is a good thing. He has adapted to different teams, players and coaches and that will help him big time in college.
Bball- if a kid wants it and has talent and drive, he can make it, it's the ones who dont have those traits that get caught up in the parentally influenced cycle. I asked my son at 13 if he wanted to quit and just be a normal kid....no strings.....no change in our love for him or support and he fought through the adversity and came out pretty good in the end. I wish all kids could excel in the sport they love and get the chance to do so. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 13:06:23
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| My son is playing his last season next Spring and I can kind of see it reflected in the off-season workouts. He has attended all of the "optional" team work outs and is doing a lot of other conditioning, but I think that is just in his DNA now and will continue even after baseball. He's not doing much baseball stuff. Seems like there are a lot of other distractions that are now higher priority. They ARE a lot cuter than his coaches... :D |
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baseballcrazymom
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 08:18:42
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**UPDATE**
He made the decision on his own to continue playing. We expected that when he finally broached the subject that it would be for HS only, but he's committed to a summer team as well.
He hasn't picked up a baseball, a bat or a glove in 5 weeks. I read about kids his age doing yoga, CrossFit, running, lifting, hitting, pitching etc. and they never stopped.
I guess my next update will be whether taking a short amount of time off has hurt him or actually helped him. We don't want him to set foot on a field or in a facility until he wants to and is ready to give it 100%. I guess we will see! |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 22:04:24
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| Baseball players ought to be taking off at least a couple months a year from throwing anyway, can't imagine that will be a problem. I know my son usually comes back from the off-season break hitting better, too. |
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Coach Cole
102 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2013 : 14:40:57
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| Really good discussion. My kids are still playing but I'm starting to see more players drop out as the years go by for a variety of reasons which range from the burnout you mention or it could be driving, girlfriends, grades, trying other things and succeeding, focusing on football vs. doing three sports, trouble with the law, substances, etc. I think we lump alot of factors into the burnout umbrella but teenages have a lot on their plates today and a lot going through their mind. No matter what way they go, hopefully they will look back with fond memories of their baseball days. It ends for all of us at some point, just a question of when and how was the journey. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2014 : 14:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballcrazymom
**UPDATE**
He made the decision on his own to continue playing. We expected that when he finally broached the subject that it would be for HS only, but he's committed to a summer team as well.
He hasn't picked up a baseball, a bat or a glove in 5 weeks. I read about kids his age doing yoga, CrossFit, running, lifting, hitting, pitching etc. and they never stopped.
I guess my next update will be whether taking a short amount of time off has hurt him or actually helped him. We don't want him to set foot on a field or in a facility until he wants to and is ready to give it 100%. I guess we will see!
Thats great news!
My son committed to Penn State. Should be a fun ride. #WeAre |
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Burn out...well it's happening
