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tfb
34 Posts |
 Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:05:34
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With some cold spring weather and expensive bats I am considering getting a bat warmer to lessen the risk of breaking the bat.
I found some information that some leagues consider a "warm" bat to be an altered bat and thus is illegial for use in a game.
Has anyone run into problems in games or tourneys? |
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bigdog
231 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 19:19:54
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| We have found ourselves in some ridiculously cold games. My son hits a composite bat. I bought a small propane heater for the dugout and put the bat near that. It has worked fine. 45 dollars and no cracked bat, for what its worth |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 20:39:38
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| I haven't heard of any rule, but If it does improve performance, I'll take two!!!! |
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tfb
34 Posts |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 19:18:05
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I have seen people warm up bats many different ways. Everything from the silver bat warmer tubes to the rubbing it quickly under their arm pit or between their thighs. It is physics, where the warmer the bat, the more active the molecules are, the more flexible the metal is and more trampoline effect you get. The colder the bat, the less molecule activity with more rigid metal and a less trampoline effect.
I bet all of you who took physics in college never thought we could apply this, so easily, to fun stuff like bats.  |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:11:33
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| I believe it's illegal to "warm" a bat, but I doubt when it's 40 degrees outside nobody's going to complain too much about it...hmmm better change that..nobody until it changes a game....Playing in that weather sure puts parents in a tough spot...should we "cheat" or should we risk breaking a 300 dollar bat because were playing in this weather... |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 11:45:37
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| I would watch your expectations with this. I did some reading on this back when I played a lot of tournament softball. My understanding from what I read is that it is not the bat being cold that is the problem. It is the ball becoming more dense and harder because of the cold. If you are hitting a more dense ball with a bat that is heated (therefore softer - trampoline effect), you will probably still wind up with a dented or cracked bat. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 12:03:05
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You mean there really is a rule about warming bats? How many degrees does one need to warm a bat up to get maximum distance? How much does it really affect the flight of the ball? Is there a point where you warm a bat up too much?
And finally, is this what they mean when they say, "He's swinging a Hot Bat"????? |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 12:22:33
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I have to say, I couldn't care less if a player has a bat in one of those silver bat warmer things, and care even less if I see a batter over there on deck rubbing it under his arm pits to try to warm it up. As long as we don't have wait for him to get up there and bat I don't care. I would venture to say that you cannot truly determine whether warming that bat had a specific effect on an at-bat or not. It does not make it lighter, help the batters hand/eye coordination, or make the barrel larger. It just has some affect on the ball when it comes off of it. You could argue that a flair between the infield and outfield for a hit would have actually been caught by the infield. You could have the same argument that a line drive to the outfielder by a warm bat would have resulted in a "tweener" had the bat been cold.
We already had one busted bat yesterday in 60+ degree weather. I don't blame parents from keeping them in a warmer.
Another question, How much warmer does one of the warmer tubes keep your bat than storing it in your bat bag with a towel around it during the game? You can't keep players from putting their bats back in their bags during a game, and the towel can be argued to keep it from being scratched.
I just see this as a hard one to regulate and enforce. |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 12:47:17
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| There is a Microwaveable Bat Warmer around $50.00 and then there is a Bat Insulator for around $14.00. Both are on baseballsavings.com. I purchased the Insulator just in case. My son's Stealth Comp CNT cracked on both sides last week. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 14:18:59
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| I found that within a couple of minutes an aluminum bat loses all of the heat and is just as cold as any other bat. I have yet to see a kid get a hit in less than two minutes from the time he comes out of the dugout to the time he actually gets a pitch to hit ... but the bat warmer is a GREAT hand warmer for the really cold nights!!! |
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toprank
138 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 07:41:42
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| I can tell you this. In college we used to put the bats infront of the propane heater in teh dugout before we would hit. 2 guys back to back, ends popped off. Old Easton Black Magic Bats. Maybe we just got them too hot and the plastic caps melted or something. Needless to say our coach didn't allow that anymore. How about wood bats? I see pros hitting in very cold weather and the ball seems to jump pretty well? |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 10:08:22
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Heating of Baseball BatsFriday, May 06, 2005
It has been brought to our attention that players participating in PIAA baseball contests are using “bat warmers” to heat up bats before use. According to research by NFHS the heating of a bat actually changes the structure of the bat. By definition of NFHS Rule 1-3-5, a heated bat is considered to be an altered bat.
Heating the bat dramatically increases the speed in which the ball comes off the bat. This changing the structure of the bat to gain a competitive advantage is against PIAA and NFHS rules as well as other sport codes. Therefore, for safety concerns, PIAA does not permit any type of “bat warmer” to be used in any PIAA baseball contests.
Increased risk of injury by a heated bat is a serious concern and should be dealt with immediately per NFHS Rule 1-5-6. “Bat warmers” are to be treated as illegal equipment and must be removed prior to the beginning of any PIAA contest.
Just one example, most every organization considers bat warmers,heating of a bat illegal..If you want to gain an "edge" by cheating (and that's what it is) go ahead..As I see it, just another example of NOT teaching a basic respect for the game...Complain about "having to play in cold weather" (it's your choice to play in it) Complain about prices of bats...but when you "bend the rules" however you want to justify it...you're CHEATING... |
Edited by - SportsDad on 02/13/2008 10:18:46 |
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CinReds
88 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 10:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
....Just one example, most every organization considers bat warmers,heating of a bat illegal..If you want to gain an "edge" by cheating (and that's what it is) go ahead..As I see it, just another example of NOT teaching a basic respect for the game...Complain about "having to play in cold weather" (it's your choice to play in it) Complain about prices of bats...but when you "bend the rules" however you want to justify it...you're CHEATING...
I couldn't have said it better! |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2008 : 11:44:20
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| A pitcher on HGH throwing a juiced spit ball to a batter on steroids using a heated corked bat. Thats America, don't u luv it????? |
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Jr Longhorns
46 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 01:32:03
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| Use wood when it's cold - we do... |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 14:12:07
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| My son's Stealth Comp CNT cracked again last week and is was 60. 2nd time in two months. Last time it took 5 days to get a new one this time Easton said 15+ days. Last time purchasing a Easton bat. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 16:41:05
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| My son uses the TPX Dynasty and it is the most durable bat I have seen anyone use. Practice, cage, lessons, games, no dents. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 19:40:28
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| If bat warmers are illegal in baseball, why is Pyroflight bat warmers a National Sponsor for USSSA? Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest if USSSA said you could not use them in a game, but they receive sponsorship fees from Pyroflight? |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 00:44:42
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Maybe USSSA doesn't consider them illegal, I don't know. I do know that some do, because it "increases the speed at which a ball comes off the bat, so it's not an "if" question...Greg would you object if the opposing team was taking a blow torch to their bat to "heat them up" Probably, what should umpires carry a thermomter with them to make sure the bat isn't to "heated" ...and how much is too much?...Just on a saftey issue....I sure wouldn't want to be the Dad or the coach that allowed a heated bat to injure an opposing player..Now grant you, I'm sure there are some Dads and coaches who value a hit for their son/player more than the health and welfare of their opponants,,,and that says a lot about them!!
Heating of Baseball BatsFriday, May 06, 2005
It has been brought to our attention that players participating in PIAA baseball contests are using “bat warmers” to heat up bats before use. According to research by NFHS the heating of a bat actually changes the structure of the bat. By definition of NFHS Rule 1-3-5, a heated bat is considered to be an altered bat.
Heating the bat dramatically increases the speed in which the ball comes off the bat. This changing the structure of the bat to gain a competitive advantage is against PIAA and NFHS rules as well as other sport codes. Therefore, for safety concerns, PIAA does not permit any type of “bat warmer” to be used in any PIAA baseball contests.
Increased risk of injury by a heated bat is a serious concern and should be dealt with immediately per NFHS Rule 1-5-6. “Bat warmers” are to be treated as illegal equipment and must be removed prior to the beginning of any PIAA contest.
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 09:37:41
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I was just stating what I had found, not whether I believed it or not. I still think that keeping a bat warm between the heater and the batters box is a hard task on cold days/nights. I see players rubbing their bat under their arm or between their thighs while on deck, which I would consider just as effective as heating it up in a warmer and then walking out in the on-deck circle and taking practice swings. The wind on the bat will cool it down quickly enough anyway.
I couldn't care less if a team has a bat in one of the warmers. Where I get concerned is with players trying to heat one up in front of a heater. I think there is a greater probability of damaging it by having it too close to the heat than anything else. I suspect more people try to keep them warm as to not crack them as they do trying to get added performance. I have not seen a bat warmer yet that helps with hand/eye coordination. |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 22:50:27
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I have not seen a bat warmer yet that helps with hand/eye coordination.
nor have I, but the evidance that they improve the "performance' of a bat is, I believe, established. Although you couldn't care less, I believe that anything that alters the performance of a bat is not only a moral issue "it's cheating" but a safty issue...I don't think corking a bat, or loading a bat with super balls improves eye/hand coordination, but it's still cheating and a safety issue... I suppose people feel justify in it, under the pretense that 'I don't want to crack the bat I paid $x for" because playing in 40 degree weather is so much more important than anything else..than again these same people have no problem sending the bat back to the manufacturer and stealing under the pretense "it cracked in 65 degree weather..The number of false claims (and we ALL know people who have ripped off the bat manufacturers)adds to the price you and I pay for bats... |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 22:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
I have not seen a bat warmer yet that helps with hand/eye coordination.
nor have I, but the evidance that they improve the "performance' of a bat is, I believe, established. Although you couldn't care less, I believe that anything that alters the performance of a bat is not only a moral issue "it's cheating" but a safty issue...I don't think corking a bat, or loading a bat with super balls improves eye/hand coordination, but it's still cheating and a safety issue... I suppose people feel justify in it, under the pretense that 'I don't want to crack the bat I paid $x for" because playing in 40 degree weather is so much more important than anything else..than again these same people have no problem sending the bat back to the manufacturer and stealing under the pretense "it cracked in 65 degree weather..The number of false claims (and we ALL know people who have ripped off the bat manufacturers)adds to the price you and I pay for bats...
So, if it is 40 degrees, the bat will not perform to specs; correct? But if you warm it to say 65 degrees, it will now be at or still below spec, and that's cheating????? I don't understand how getting a bat back to normal playing conditions is cheating.
Your previous statement said "heating a bat changes the molecular structure." Does that mean the players should not have anything to keep them warm, because heating them changes their molecular structure too!:) |
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SportsDad
293 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 23:23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Gold Glove
So, if it is 40 degrees, the bat will not perform to specs; correct? But if you warm it to say 65 degrees, it will now be at or still below spec, and that's cheating????? I don't understand how getting a bat back to normal playing conditions is cheating.
Your previous statement said "heating a bat changes the molecular structure." Does that mean the players should not have anything to keep them warm, because heating them changes their molecular structure too!:)
If the rules say "bat warmers are cheating or warming a bat is cheating" what does it matter if it is in "spec"? It's not I that determines if it is cheating, it's the rules of the game that says it's cheating. If USSSA or any other santioning committee comes out and says, "bat warmers are legal in our tournaments or warming a bat to 65 degress is legal" than it's legal. There are many rules in baseball when broken do not neccesarily create an advantage but are none the less deemed to be cheating
... I also don't understand "players should not have anything to keep them warm" I don't see the difference and keeping a bat warm or warming a bat.. Bat's do not create heat by themselves. You have to introduce a heat source to them to "make them warm" |
Edited by - SportsDad on 04/14/2008 08:43:26 |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 16:43:30
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Then I guess there are different levels of bat warmers because there are some that are just insulation tubes that keep the bat warmer than the outside temperature. I am not sure I would categorize that as cheating any more than I would leaving your bat in your bag until you hit, or rubbing it under your armpit.
Now anything that artificially "Raises" the temperature of the bat would sound more like cheating. |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 23:12:26
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quote:
Originally posted by SportsDad
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Glove
So, if it is 40 degrees, the bat will not perform to specs; correct? But if you warm it to say 65 degrees, it will now be at or still below spec, and that's cheating????? I don't understand how getting a bat back to normal playing conditions is cheating.
Your previous statement said "heating a bat changes the molecular structure." Does that mean the players should not have anything to keep them warm, because heating them changes their molecular structure too!:)
If the rules say "bat warmers are cheating or warming a bat is cheating" what does it matter if it is in "spec"? It's not I that determines if it is cheating, it's the rules of the game that says it's cheating. If USSSA or any other santioning committee comes out and says, "bat warmers are legal in our tournaments or warming a bat to 65 degress is legal" than it's legal. There are many rules in baseball when broken do not neccesarily create an advantage but are none the less deemed to be cheating
... I also don't understand "players should not have anything to keep them warm" I don't see the difference and keeping a bat warm or warming a bat.. Bat's do not create heat by themselves. You have to introduce a heat source to them to "make them warm"
SportsDad,
I guess my humor is not on the same level as yours. My statement was about the players staying warm themselves, not keeping the bat warm..... |
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bat warmers
