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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
 Posted - 08/08/2013 : 11:56:30
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I don't mind paying a reasonable fee for a good travel team BUT I hate to waste money on "instruction" from people who claim to be professionals who clearly are not. The biggest problem for most is that unless you watch a particular coach/team for a while, you really don't know how well they can teach your kids. Just because someone can or has played at a high level, doesn't mean they know how to teach it to your kid. Conversely, just because a person has never played doesn't mean that they can't teach. It really comes down to finding the right fit for your kid. It takes a lot of hit and miss and a lot of research to get it right. I try to observe the opposing teams closely during the year and narrow our choices down based on what I see.
Bottom line, I think it's important to set a spending limit for your family and pursue the right situation with that amount as your first criteria.
At the younger ages (12u and younger), I think you are better off finding a reasonably inexpensive team where your kid has fun and spending the extra money on private instructions for your kid with a qualified instructor that your kid clicks with. Do all you can to sharpen his mechanics so that he has the best chance to succeed on the field. That doesn't always happen because of his team coaches. Even if they are top notch, they just don't have the time to devote that much attention to all of their players.
bball123, I agree that some of the teams out there are charging way too much for what they provide. I think supply/demand, free market, whatever you want to call it is to blame. You and I have seen a lot of travel ball over the past 6 years or so and the landscape has changed quite a bit. bballman and a lot of others have seen way more than you and I have too. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2013 : 14:37:07
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quote:
Originally posted by TAZ980002
The biggest problem for most is that unless you watch a particular coach/team for a while, you really don't know how well they can teach your kids. Just because someone can or has played at a high level, doesn't mean they know how to teach it to your kid. Conversely, just because a person has never played doesn't mean that they can't teach. It really comes down to finding the right fit for your kid. It takes a lot of hit and miss and a lot of research to get it right.
Taz, this is very true. I think the following is also true - a particular instructor may be very good for one kid, but not another. You may get great recommendations on a particular instructor, then you go there and the instructor and your kid just don't mesh. It doesn't mean he is a bad coach, it just means it wasn't a good fit for your kid. Sometimes it is hit or miss even when you do your homework. |
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UPPERDECKER
34 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2013 : 14:51:59
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| My son has also played at 643, ECB, and for quite a few Elite teams around the area . He enjoyed his time at ECB and 643, great teams, and great teammates. But bballman let me assure you talent had nothing to do with playing time when he was riding the pine. His coach was also a pitching instructor at 643 and within 2 weeks of us joining the team, started hitting us up constantly about lessons, pitching and hitting. It was not going to be done at practice, they had to be scheduled through the academy at an hourly rate. His playing time dropped off steadily when we did not schedule any lessons.Our situation may not be the norm, but everything you have just read is absolutely the truth. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2013 : 15:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by UPPERDECKER
My son has also played at 643, ECB, and for quite a few Elite teams around the area . He enjoyed his time at ECB and 643, great teams, and great teammates. But bballman let me assure you talent had nothing to do with playing time when he was riding the pine. His coach was also a pitching instructor at 643 and within 2 weeks of us joining the team, started hitting us up constantly about lessons, pitching and hitting. It was not going to be done at practice, they had to be scheduled through the academy at an hourly rate. His playing time dropped off steadily when we did not schedule any lessons.Our situation may not be the norm, but everything you have just read is absolutely the truth.
I saw some of this last year where a kid who pays for lessons regularly gets more playing time and special treatment on the field. His parents were huge complainers too so I just assumed it was the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Turns out the kid's parents were best friends with the "manager" of the team. I've come to the conclusion that it was a combination of all three. These folks are in for a rude awakening when their kid actually has to earn his spot on the field. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2013 : 16:13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by UPPERDECKER
My son has also played at 643, ECB, and for quite a few Elite teams around the area . He enjoyed his time at ECB and 643, great teams, and great teammates. But bballman let me assure you talent had nothing to do with playing time when he was riding the pine. His coach was also a pitching instructor at 643 and within 2 weeks of us joining the team, started hitting us up constantly about lessons, pitching and hitting. It was not going to be done at practice, they had to be scheduled through the academy at an hourly rate. His playing time dropped off steadily when we did not schedule any lessons.Our situation may not be the norm, but everything you have just read is absolutely the truth.
I have found this to be the norm. I was upfront when my son was offered a spot and told the coach as far as I was concerned it was a conflict of interest for us to pay a head coach for lessons. This coach was fine with it and we had a pretty good Fall. Bad part was that coach found a job out of state over the winter and after we paid our spring fees. They brought in another coach and we were in the fifth or sixth tournament and I kept noticing the same kid (who could hit his way out of a paper bag) was lead off every pool game. Come bracket play, he would be at the bottom of the line up or out of the line up (depending on number of players showed up). It was the same thing every week the whole year. Ask my wife if she had an idea why the coach would start this kid at the top of the line-up, she said yea, the kid and his brother take lessons twice a week with the coach. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2013 : 20:04:55
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3 Son Dad 
^^^^^^^^^ WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER !!! ^^^^^^^^^ |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2013 : 22:02:51
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| "You get what you pay for" and " buyer beware" pretty much sums up travel ball costs and options.... |
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bp7
5 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2013 : 08:56:06
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
"You get what you pay for" and " buyer beware" pretty much sums up travel ball costs and options....
buyer beware - absolutely
you get what you pay for - not always probably not as often as you should
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2013 : 10:52:21
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quote:
Originally posted by bp7
quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
"You get what you pay for" and " buyer beware" pretty much sums up travel ball costs and options....
buyer beware - absolutely
you get what you pay for - not always probably not as often as you should
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! , Been here, Done this and have the t-shirts (spirit wear) to prove it. They are for sale by the way, CHEAP!
After the first month or so you have seen it all, then its like any other team as far as what you learn. At least in the older ages. And unless you are on their premier team you are not getting the premier coaching and instruction. just some other guy on the staff and a couple of dads. Oh, they will tell you that you will to get you in the door, but once in they just DON'T live up to what they say.
And to be seen, you don't have to play on these high priced teams. You just need to play on a team that plays in the same tournaments as them 
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kidsgame
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2013 : 10:09:21
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It can be pretty expensive (you should hear what my friends say about the cost of cheerleading, though) - and I do often think about talented players who may not have the funds to play at the level of their talent. Maybe there is a scholarship-type opportunity . . . that's a discussion for another thread.
If you are like my husband and I, you have put a great deal of thought into the right team for your son and your family - as we have only one child, travel ball has become our family pastime. Just the entertainment value alone is worth a great deal to us. We are making our first team change this year after three great years on the same team (team broke up). The tryout process was a little stressful as (joking here, kinda) we would much prefer to have a tryout for coaches :). We are so happy to have landed on another great team with an outstanding coaching staff at one of the "organizations" mentioned on this thread. It is going to be more expensive than last year, however. We expected that, and feel confident that it is the right decision for us.
I'm not sure how I feel about calling out "organization[s]" - whether generally or specifically - and attempting to assign the value that one family or another may get from being part of said organization. We are all trying to do what is best for our boys.
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Jack-of-Diamonds
152 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2013 : 14:16:22
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I've always budgeted in a certain amount for private lessons in addition to team costs. But, as my son hit HS age I realized we were probably going to need to put even more into lessons, and camps, and showcases, and traveling more often and further afield, than we do team fees. In other words, it isn't going to get any cheaper if you have designs set on them playing Varsity HS and College ball!
As for team fees, there are plenty of options at different levels of cost. Being more expensive doesn't guarantee you're getting more. But, we have found that moving from dad-coached teams to a professional organization has been worth the extra expense. |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 08:51:00
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Ive never had a problem with paying for my son to play. However the cost is unjustified in many of the travel organizations when it comes to HS age players. A parent on my team came from the blue jays organization and they were paying 3100 for the summer season alone(14u). There were 17 players on this team. This would generate 52,700 for a summer season which consists of approximately 12 weeks based on high school playoff players availability. In theory, lets say this team played up in the perfect game 18u WWBA(2000 entry fee), and in this theoretical world that tournament was held every week(12 wks x 2000=24,000), that would still leave 28,700. What would the remainder be spent on? Uniforms? Gatorade? Bobby Cox?
In real life, a super, best in the state, high end team could realistically play 6 pg tournaments, WWBA, BCS and Nationals in two age groups. That would be an expense of about 8000 for pg tournaments. College showcase tourneys average about 600-800, another 4800 max. I don't know what the rest of the money would cover. I'm not sure if parents are bad at math, or just have a ton of money to spread around.
The sad part is I have parents who complain about paying 2000 for the YEAR(fall ball, winter workouts and summer ball-including pg tourneys) and we have an ex minor league catcher as our head coach.
**You may not get everything you pay for, but you will definitely pay for everything you get.** |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 11:05:45
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quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
I'm not sure if parents are bad at math, or just have a ton of money to spread around.
**You may not get everything you pay for, but you will definitely pay for everything you get.**
The amount of Desperation is equal to the amount of money paid for some folks. They'll pay anything to get their son on a team and there are guys out there taking advantage of this.
More truth: watch for the buddy system between the facility owner and a favorited team or two. Not everybody or every team is being charged the same. Some teams pay more so the buddy's team pays less. |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 13:20:49
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I'm not sure where all the animosity comes from. No one is forcing anybody to do anything.
Information is available at your fingertips. Do your homework. For the older kids, it's easy enough to discover what teams/coaches are sending kids to college programs (assuming that's your goal) and which aren't. No one has to make a blind decision or leap of faith.
I also do not subscribe to any conspiracy theories which may exist. Frankly, I don't care. If I find sufficient value in a travel program and feel that the cost is justified, I'll pay it. |
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kidsgame
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 15:10:53
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| Whew . . . I'm with you Tribe. Aren't we all doing our research and making decisions based on what is best for our families and our sons? Let's respect each other's decisions and move on. Speaking for my family, desperation is not part of our equation - I am so sorry if that is the way any family out there has felt. |
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CharlieSpikes
12 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 15:41:19
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The point is that a family should plan on adding $500 - $1,000 to the cost of certain programs for "lessons". Those "lessons" may be necessary to guarantee a roster spot or increase playing time.
Is it worth it? As all have said, that is for each family to decide.
Is it unfair to the player/family who can't afford it? Or who doesn't know about the backroom game being played? Or who refuses to participate in it because it doesn't feel right? Yes, yes and yes. But whoever said travel ball (or anything else in life) was "fair"?
And no one said it is true for every player or team in any program. But it absolutely is a fact in many cases, and not a conspiracy. And yes, it is especially true for the program that pretends they are above all this.
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 17:57:29
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Pride,It matters not if you subscribe to the so called "conspiracy theories " or not. These are the facts , these things are happening on many teams and in several programs. And Im sorry kidsgame but just because your family does not do this or that. doesn't mean that this isn't a problem for a lot of parents and players.
I feel like a lot of people don't really care as long as it does not affect them, in this and many other real issues.
Unfortunately , this situation touches many and and it may touch you just around the corner.
If you are under 10u and plan on playing travel ball be prepared to pay $5000 or more by the time you get to 14u because that's where this is going |
Edited by - BBall123 on 08/12/2013 20:09:55 |
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kidsgame
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 20:17:41
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| Thank you for clarifying the facts BBall123. Wish the best for all of the baseball families out there. |
Edited by - kidsgame on 08/12/2013 21:38:14 |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 21:26:27
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I wish I had a nickel for every time someone got on this board and complained that their kid either didn't make a team or wasn't getting playing time because of some scandalous condition that existed. The sad part is that I suspect that those same people are passing this alibi along to their kids, who now feel that regardless of how hard they work, some circumstance beyond their control will prevent them from succeeding. Shame, really.
I'll say it again: nobody is making you do anything. Take your kid and your dollars wherever your heart desires. More choices exist now than ever before. There are countless options available at every age level. North Georgia is the Mecca of youth baseball. Do your homework and choose a place where you'll be happy.
One last thing: the accusations being made here are very serious and inflammatory. They are not, however, "the facts" just because you (the anonymous critic) say they are. If you have proof that this exists, post it here and sign your name to it.
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Butch21
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 21:57:03
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| I hope the people here complaining about the costs of travel ball aren't the same ones complaining about dad coaches on the other boards. It seems like some parents think that every dad coach is an idiot who favors his kid and every paid coach is a thief in it for the money. I hope these parents are not passing these opinions to their kids but I assume they are based on some of the crappy attitudes and sense of entitlement of some of the players out there. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 22:37:57
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I'll make one last comment - hopefully. If you don't want to pay a lot, don't. There are other options out there.
If your kid is not getting good play time, have him do what he needs to get better. Help him get so good that the coach has no option but to have him play.
Any time my son complained about play time or his spot in the batting order, I told him to get better and those things will come. I never blamed a coach or a political system or anyone else. Maybe that's why he's playing college ball now. No excuses, no blaming, just do better and things will come. Period. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 06:15:09
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Sorry guys but if you are referring to me you are going down the wrong rabbit path. Most of you know who I am and who my son is. He never leaves the field on any team. Its not about that for me.
And as I stated in the OP, I DO believe the price of baseball is starting to price people out and if we continue to support the prices they will continue to go higher and higher.
And I think that hurts baseball and it hurts kids and family's.
And although this wasn't the intent of the OP, other people have brought up these other issues in this thread. What surprises me is that there seems to be a small contingent of people who are completely unaware of these other issues or
" conspiracy's "that almost everyone else knows are happening.
Im not trying to be ugly to anyone here but I have to ask. Is this selective ignorance of the issues because it does not affect your kid or are you who they are talking about and you are trying to defend it. OR do you really not know that these things happen?
Specifics like this are not allowed or posted on this board, email me and I will be glad to share any specifics that I know first hand, and who I am with you.
And, you are very welcome kidsgame. |
Edited by - BBall123 on 08/13/2013 09:27:32 |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 08:31:50
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Tribe: Unfortunately the conspiracy theory you referenced (not sure I'd use that phrase but whatever) does exist. My post has absolutely nothing to do with my son or his team or playing time. Perhaps some of us have seen things from another angle. Think about it. You wish you had a nickel...etc? Boy so do I but for other reasons. Maybe some of us are pointing things out to look out for and it has NOTHING ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with who got what playing time or made what team or our own sons or nephews or grandsons. Seriously. And posting names and facts will only get you banned IF Stan even allowed it to remain on these boards. I agree the topic is serious and perhaps inflammatory so why don't we leave it at that and allow others to let the ideas sink in, open their eyes and really try to see the things that are going on out there. Not everywhere, but it does happen.
kidsgame: No. We/you/they aren't ALL doing their research (proper research anyway)and while they THINK they are doing what is best for their son, some are still getting burned. Then they leave, but they take the jaded attitude to the next place and if the cycle repeats, well you know what happens next. (They come over here and get beat up.)
Many just don't know what to watch out for because every year another disgusting thing gets invented to ruin this great game. I guess this is also part of the weeding out process. It's a shame really.
There are great facilities out there, great leaders and coaches be it paid professionals or dads (we've had both), but at the same time there are the ones who STINK (we've had both) and they don't deserve to continue coaching or remain in business. It hurts the name of the game and these are usually the ones who talk the loudest about doing things for the love of the game AND WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR SON etc. Let's get real. They are doing it for the money.
Now back to the original topic of rising costs: there are parents who spend at least $5000 annually (I know a bunch of them) just for private lessons. IF an organization wants $3000+ for fall ball, winter workouts and spring/summer ball AND advertises that they will provide X amount of training etc and so forth, then I for one feel that's a good deal IF they actually provide X amount of training and all the other stuff that comes along with the package like a certain number of tournaments, certain number of paid coaches and/or dad volunteers, number of practices, facility time, field time blah blah.
It's when they don't that I begin to have a problem.
So if my son is playing on the $3000 team, and I've been spending $5000 previously on private instruction, and I see that my son may still need some private one on one time because he still can't hit or pitch or field a baseball, then I'll spend my other $2000 on either a hitting or pitching or fielding lesson weekly with the coach of my choice whether it's within the facility or not, or perhaps during the breaks from baseball, put him with a trainer for strength and conditioning or whatever. I personally don't subscribe to the mentality of blaming everybody else because Johnny is in a slump at the plate or his arm is weak or he's slow and has bad footwork. The only magic bullet is hard work and you earn your spots and opportunities.
It's really all about the math
Whoever said you get what you pay for is mostly correct, except that sometimes you DON'T get what you were told you were paying for and that really bites. Move into the next situation much more carefully please.
I could go on and on and on, but I'm sick of the topic now. |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 11:09:07
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This topic, or the evolution of it, is tiresome to debate but its popularity means that this issue provokes passion in baseball people....therefore it's more than worthy of discussion.
Perhaps my family has enjoyed a charmed and lucky baseball existence. Maybe it's providential that we, in 12 years of organized youth baseball, have not come in contact with the kind of ploy described herein, where baseball hucksters prey on vulnerable families and drain them financially and don't provide development, opportunity, playing time, etc..
However, I don't think it's blind luck that we have avoided these situations. Our good fortune is owed to the fact that we researched each decision methodically. We looked at roster turnover. We studied win/loss records. We spoke to parents and families. We asked other coaches for opinions. We resolved that we wouldn't break the bank, but were willing to spend a little money when warranted. Above all else, we were honest with ourselves about my son's capabilities and skill level at each level and his viability for success as he ascended in age and talent.
We are at the end of the journey, as my son recently committed to a D-1 school in a good baseball conference. His college opportunities materialized through his hard work and the constant and tireless efforts of his coach who happens to run a baseball academy mentioned in this thread. Not once...let me repeat this...not once were we solicited to participate in additional lessons. Nor was anyone else on his team. It didn't happen.
Ultimately, market forces will weed out the programs that don't provide value. But this absolutely depends on buyers (that's you) making informed, thoughtful decisions.
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CoachAl
23 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2013 : 17:31:24
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| Anything over $2000 and you are paying for someone's ego: either the "Organizations", the Coaches, or perhaps even your own. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which. |
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Fee's for travel ball going higher and higher ?
