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bballman
1432 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2011 : 09:55:21
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At ECB, there are Dad's coaching all the way through the system, including 17 and maybe 18. At 643, 15 & up, there are no dad's coaching. Younger ages at 643, I believe have dad's, but also a paid coach associated with them. Coaches are hand picked and pre-screened and are on-board with the 643 philosophy. Someone mentioned earlier that 643 is more "institutionalized". I don't like that word, but they are more of a "program" than ECB.
If you want to know what a practice will be like with 643, go to their tryout. There is no difference in how they conduct their tryout and how they conduct their practices. The tryout is like a long practice with a lot of kids. There is no standing around getting bored. Things are always moving, always going. Tons of ground balls, tons of flyballs, tons of situational stuff. From my experience with 643, it is a very well run program. Someone also mentioned that the kids went to hit in the cages for the tryout. They did, but at least for the 17u tryouts last year, all swings were videotaped and reviewed by all the coaches making the decisions.
I'm sure there are a ton of teams that don't charge for tryouts, but I know the programs out there all charge. ECB, 643, Team Georgia, Atlanta BlueJays all charge for their tryouts. I know for 643, for the 17u & 18u teams, there are 2 days of tryouts, 4 hours each day. I don't think charging a fee for that is unreasonable. Pre-registration is $85 which works out to just about $10 per hour for some pretty good instruction and a very good baseball workout. Plus the opportunity to play on a team for a very good program.
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2011 : 10:51:37
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Great post. Look around at some of the "professionally" coached teams in the marquee parks where they have no kid on the team. You'll find that they're some of the biggest tools in the shed. More drama and discontent on those teams than most others.
quote:
Originally posted by 4thecycle
H&R, if it were not for Dads coaching then travel ball would not exist for over 90% of the kids who play the game. Dads make it possible for more teams and thus more players.
Some of THE BEST coaches out there are Dads. Just being a Dad does not mean you stink as a coach and you play daddy ball all the time and you're not worthy of coaching a team.
If YOU personally have had issues with Dads coaching then it is YOUR fault for not doing your homework and choosing another team.
It is time everyone stops bashing Dads as coaches and be thankful they are out there making the world of travel ball and rec ball possible. Bash the less than 1% of dad coaches who play daddy ball and don't join their teams. Then they will fade away.
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inthegap
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2011 : 15:36:23
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| 643 will have Dad coaches for 15U this year according to their post. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 09:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by 4thecycle
H&R,
If YOU personally have had issues with Dads coaching then it is YOUR fault for not doing your homework and choosing another team.
Bash the less than 1% of dad coaches who play daddy ball and don't join their teams. Then they will fade away.
1% is way low more like 75%. I have done my homework and will not play for a team that has a dad coach that is exactly what my post was saying. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 10:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
[quote] 1% is way low more like 75%. I have done my homework and will not play for a team that has a dad coach that is exactly what my post was saying.
So, you're saying 75% of Dad Coached teams = Daddy ball? Might be a little high there.. I'll agree 1% is low, but 75%?
I've been around plenty of programs with no dads coaching and saw as much Daddy ball/good ole boy bias on the team as any dad coached team.
I've also seen plenty of Nationally ranked programs at all age groups with dads on the coaching staff, without a hint of favoritism.
Point being, it comes down to the coaches, their knowledge, and their integrity, not if they have a kid on the team.
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 11:01:45
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I bet there are some very good dad coached majors and down teams feeling the same way about certian dads.
In the last years I coached, I was more concerned about parents then players. All players interested in the game can improve, some dads will simply never get it. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 11:27:45
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So, Junkballer, back to the original topic. With the 13u 643 tryouts tomorrow, did you make a decision? You going to give it a shot.
What I take from all the discussion is that ECB offers a more legitimate likelihood of best being seen in one of the individual workouts, but you still need to attend (or at least pay for) the ECB park tryout and that 643 seems to really consider the players from the open tryout and that if you want to play for them, that tryout is the best way to get your foot in the door.
Either way, if you want to play for either of these organizations, the clinic/tryout fee appears to be mandatory. Which way you going? |
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hammertime1
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 12:39:17
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Both 15u 643 coaches are "dads" but they can coach. My son's team played the Jaguars twice and even though I thought we were the better team, he out-coached us both games and really has his team ready for every situation. That team beat a lot of teams doing little things well.
It's definitly an organizational approach at 643. I saw both 14u coaches in each others dugouts all year. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 13:21:43
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75% may be high but conscious or maybe unconscious there is a lot of daddy ball when coaches have players and those are not your top players. I think it exists in every baseball program from the elite travel to rec ball.
Is it daddy ball when a player makes a team because dad is the coach, business manager, big sponsor, alumni, or ex pro,
when there are better players that attend the same tryout?
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 14:06:26
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Does anyone know if a parent could just show up and watch either of these? We aren't looking for a new team this year. But I would like to see how these are run so in future years, I would be able to make a more informed decision.
Plus the wife and son are out of time so I have a free weekend :-)
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JunkBaller
4 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 14:26:36
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
So, Junkballer, back to the original topic. With the 13u 643 tryouts tomorrow, did you make a decision? You going to give it a shot.
What I take from all the discussion is that ECB offers a more legitimate likelihood of best being seen in one of the individual workouts, but you still need to attend (or at least pay for) the ECB park tryout and that 643 seems to really consider the players from the open tryout and that if you want to play for them, that tryout is the best way to get your foot in the door.
Either way, if you want to play for either of these organizations, the clinic/tryout fee appears to be mandatory. Which way you going?
Know, right now I am leaning heavily towards 643 because I KNOW that as an organization, they definitely provide the 3 things I am looking for most. As for ECB, it seems that there will be 10-12 13U ECB teams out there by their tryout date (it's growing by the day, it seems), but most the teams that are really looking for (position) players have some question marks... not a knock on ECB, just the facts (I'm sure 643 has a few unknowns as well). Like I said, that where I'm leaning right now--check back with me in an hour . |
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gamefanatic
40 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 17:00:06
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
Does anyone know if a parent could just show up and watch either of these? We aren't looking for a new team this year. But I would like to see how these are run so in future years, I would be able to make a more informed decision.
Plus the wife and son are out of time so I have a free weekend :-)
Decatur Dad - at ECB there are so many people there wandering around no one will know who you are or why you are there. 643 can't answer but as long as you aren't coaching from the stands - enjoy the day! The beauty is you can leave when you've had enough and not have to sit in the heat all day long on uncomfortable bleachers!
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Mets69
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 17:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
Does anyone know if a parent could just show up and watch either of these? We aren't looking for a new team this year. But I would like to see how these are run so in future years, I would be able to make a more informed decision.
Plus the wife and son are out of time so I have a free weekend :-)
Same thing at 643 ... anyone can show up and watch. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2011 : 20:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Mets69
[quote]Originally posted by DecaturDad
Does anyone know if a parent could just show up and watch either of these? We aren't looking for a new team this year. But I would like to see how these are run so in future years, I would be able to make a more informed decision.
Plus the wife and son are out of time so I have a free weekend :-)
Same thing at 643 ... anyone can show up and watch.
[/quote
While you are at 643 tryout/clinic look around and count how many coaches are there from other organizations. |
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With-a-stick
33 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 00:00:25
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| I recommend going to watch everything, tryouts, scrimmage games, tournaments, everything. Scope out future coaches and organizations before you need to know. Go watch tournaments if you can. See how prospective coaches and players handle the win and the loss. Players take queues from the coaches. Take notes if you have to, recognize which coaches stay with an age and which move up in age. Go to the side with the fewest fans or the underdog! |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 15:24:12
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| best team i ever had a kid on and best coached team was a dad coached team. he now coaches canes baseball and still does a good job. I hate tryouts and have always waited till the dust settled and joined a team come spring. Whats funny is all these programs have thier tryouts then start posting looking for players or holding their own tryouts. Every east cobb team will have tryouts later and some are already posting free tryouts. IF a team wont show you their budget dont join. IF your making money as acoach or manager dont be afraid to show it. ALso make srue the roster limit is set. I have seen teams go from 13 to 17 or 17 to 21. Every kid added is more money in the pocket |
Edited by - whits23 on 07/30/2011 16:22:37 |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 12:08:29
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| So did any posters go and observe the 643 13u tryouts Saturday (DecaturDad)? Anyone's kid tryout? How was it run? Was there a good turnout? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:06:30
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WOW, nothing but crickets from the forum. Guess everyone's waiting for their phones to ring.
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
So did any posters go and observe the 643 13u tryouts Saturday (DecaturDad)? Anyone's kid tryout? How was it run? Was there a good turnout?
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:00:10
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I did stop by and watch a little bit of the 12U try outs. We are not looking, plus my son was out of town. So this was just to get a feel for the program. They had a sign up with all the general information: Who was coaching what age group, costs, ect.For the 12u: There did not seem to be a lot of players trying out. I would guess less then 20. So I think they all got a fair look. The coaches seemed to be spending a good amount of time both putting the kids through thier paces and talking with them. I don't think any of them should feel dissapointed in spending the day there. If I were looking and willing to make the drive, I would consider them. (Coach, if you read this. We love our team. I was just going through withdrawels.)
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bestplayinbaseball
67 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 12:41:31
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We've been to many of these open "tryouts." Way too much emphasis on these events. The only thing "open" about them is they are open to the public. We did Kennesaw Baseball, TGBA, and a few others. Great workouts and lots of reps!!! Just taking them in as experience, as clinics. Trying really hard, work at every pitch, every play. That's 50 or 60 or 160 more times to work on your skill set. Work harder than everyone else there. Best performance, effort, show, 1st impression. Look at your peers, measure yourself against them. Get practice for when there are real "OPEN" tryouts. Use this experience for college and HS prep. IMHO, there will be a few spots filled, if any, that will come from the "open" tryouts. Most of the negotiating is done behind the scenes and not at these fund raiser events. I'm paying for practice, reps, experience and not for a position. Our position may or may not have been discussed prior to the team events.
My son plays up two age brackets. We've been to 4 tryouts in his actual age bracket, major & AAA teams. He's got a spot on a major team. Come middle of August he'll be playing up again, on a HS travel team where the divisions are open. We've seen kids at tryouts that I know to be great athletes and baseball players. Also not picked up or offers. Mine/theirs... better or as good as the top 6 kids at these tryouts. Your kid/my kid has to fit the need of the team. It does not matter if he's the best 3rd, 1st, 2nd baseman out there. If the coaches kid has that position you are out of luck. If it's a kid from last season has that position, you are out of luck. If they have some stud from TN (or wherever) there, you are out of luck. The sad thing is I've asked for feedback (this year and years past) from the coaches after we didn't get a call or received the rejection email. From one coach/team it was apparent he mass e mailed everyone that wasn't getting called back, the same "form" e mail. Much harder to tell a man to his face, or on the phone, that we didn't pick up your kid. The feedback is poor, no particulars, no "he needs work........blahblah", no positive feedback either, btw..... we don't need a 3B, 1st baseman, we loved his pitching, great stick, lots of pop, etc. There is little objectivity. Players picked on next seasons need or last season's weakness. There is little "player development", little "player projection."
My son has attended the 3 same college camps the last 3 summers. All give you objective feedback, and anonymously and in rank and file so you know exactly year to year and in comparison with the peers that week of camp:
60 time
home to 1st time
Arm strength on a 20-80 scale
Ball exit on a 20-80 scale
Pitching on a 20-80 scale
time for the mile
time for the high knees
etc, etc
It's not where you start, it's where you end up. Good luck to everyone and may you find a place for your player to continue to develop.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 13:51:05
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Best,
What three college camps? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 14:10:40
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I hear a lot of griping on the forum about how kids don't make this or that team during the open tryouts. I have not been to a lot of them, but those we have been to, son has made the team. We are not team jumpers and have not had any real bad experiences with travel teams. Just a little history.
Son played on the same travel team from 12 - 14. Coached by a dad and I have nothing but positive to say about it. I was an assistant coach, but my son batted low in the order, because he was and still is a streaky hitter. Son would ask me, "dad, why am I batting 9th?". I responded, "what is your batting average?". He just said "I know". I told him "start hitting better and you will move up". Never blamed the coach, never asked the coach for any favors, never complained. This team broke up due to going into HS. Tried out for TGBA, made it, but chose another team instead. Stayed there for 2 years till that team broke up. Tried out for 643 in open tryouts and made it.
Bottom line is, I think if your kid stands out and is good enough, he will have a shot at making a team. If he is just another kid out there, it will be tougher. Yes, most teams do not start from scratch every year. That would be dumb. Yes, teams try to recuit players prior to tryouts. It would be dumb not to. Yes, teams are looking to fill holes in their current roster. That is the reality of the situation. Just like real life. Companies do not turn over their whole employee population every year. They look to fill needs and the best candidates get the position. They will go out and recurit for the best people to fill those holes. If they can't get who they want, they will have an open invitation for people to come in and interview for the position. Someone gets the position, a lot of people don't. It is the reality of life. Going through this process in baseball is a lesson in real life.
Train your player to go out in these open tryouts to be the one to stand out. Hustle on and off the field. Communicate with coaches. Make sure fundamentals are sound. Make good hard throws, look and act like a baseball player. Train your player to be the one that other coaches are recruiting before the tryouts come around. Play harder than everyone else. Be the kind of player that other coaches see when they play against you and say "We could use that kid on our team".
The older my son gets, the more we play against teams from all over the country and the more I realize that there are A LOT of very good baseball players out there. There are A LOT of kids who are striving to make it to the next level. Things are SUPER competitive out there. You have to do something to stand out. You can't just go out there and be like everyone else. Think about it. If a coach has a team with 7 solid guys that he already knows are going to be on the team (because they are good and are known quantities), how does he decide which 5 guys he takes out of the 30 or 40 or 50 who try out? He is going to pick the kids who stand out. Work on the weaknesses in the players game. If his 60 time is not that good, do what you need to get that time better. If arm strength is an issue, get out and throw more or work on mechanics to get that velocity up. Maybe work on your strong areas as well. If your kid is fast, get him faster. If he has a good arm, get it better so that one tool stands out so much, coaches can't ignore it.
Anyway, I feel like I am rambling. I'm just trying to say, if your kid doesn't make the team when you go to tryouts, don't blame the team and the coaches. Take responsibility. Have your son take responsibility. You have to be able to look at this situation and say, "what could I have done better to make myself stand out". Ask your son how he thought he did and if he felt like he stood out among the competition. You might be surprised at how honestly they evaluate themselves. Ask him what he thought he could have done better and go out and work on it. It will make your kid a better ballplayer and a better person in the long run.
Sorry about the ramble. |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 15:31:20
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| Well said bballman!!!! and I agree. I do have a concern. I took my son to an open tryout this past weekend and there was around 70+ there trying out for 2 teams. First Day they did a skill assessment. Two catches and throws from the outfield, Two grounders to 3rd and throws to 1st, 8 swings and 8 pitches (4 fb's, 2 change up's, 2 curves). I thought he did well. Next day a game. I thought he stood out at SS and CF, made some plays, hitting was a little off but only got 2 a bats (walked once and ground out to 3rd). Since they didn't know the names they gave out numbers and only asked them for those numbers when they hit and pitched. My concern is did they remember those numbers when he made the plays in the field??? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:24:40
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| My guess is that they have a master list of some sort that associates a number with a name. Coaches will take their notes on #24 or #37, then go look to see what the kids name is. I can tell you this. After having gone to many showcase events for HS players, they all assign numbers and do a showcase similar to what you experienced. Most do more than 2 grounders and most do a simulated game for the pitchers - usually each pitcher faces 5 batters. However, if at a team tryout, there is not time for a game, I can see them doing a bullpen instead. Anyway, my point is that you will see many showcases with numbers assigned to players. It would be very tough to memorize each kid's name during a tryout, especially the big ones. So, if your kid did some things to stand out, the coach will note his number and check out his name and contact info later to give you a call. Hope that helps. |
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justletemplay
46 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 21:04:38
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DD,
BYU (we have family there)
Auburn
Clemson |
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R U going to the upcoming mega-tryouts?
