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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2011 : 12:16:50
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At what age does it become expected that a batter may get thrown at?
If a kid crowds the plate I can understand a little brush back or chin music down to 11 or 12. Do coaches ever plunk kids at 14,15....17? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 15:43:37
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| Yes |
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kpylant13
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 16:21:47
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| should be reserved for pro ball....no place for it in amateur baseball at any level ...it may be part of the game in minor and major league baseball but if a team threw at my son at 13-17 ....it would not be a good situation for anyone involved and I think most sane people would feel that way. |
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bestplayinbaseball
67 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 17:53:00
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| I concur. Potential to ruin a young man's future (in life or baseball) for one at bat? |
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6bomber
68 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 19:41:06
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| i never played past 13, so i am not a pro by no means. my son is starting 13u this year (played since 8u) our team has never called for a batter to be hit. nor can i remember a situation with the other team. when kids get hit, it usually doesn't involve crowding the plate. normally your team , or kid,did something disrespectful. |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 20:17:53
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There is never a good reason to throw at a kid. Even chin music or a brush back should be totally unacceptable at any age below Minor League.
I agree with kpylant- I am a normally very reserved coach. I do not allow my kids to chant or yell at the opposing team in any manner. But if an opposing team intentionally threw at one of my players you might have to empty the stands to get me off the opposing coach.
Hit batters happen but there is a big difference in temporary loss of control and intentionally throwing at a kid. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 20:22:05
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| In my opinion its part of the game at the older ages but only in certain situations. If a kid is trying to peak at the catchers signs or if after a homer makes a gesture of unsportmanship towards the other teams bench, something like that, a plunking may occur. BUT never to the head area. A good hard fast ball in the numbers serves the purpose. |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 20:37:51
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If a player of mine ever showed disrespect to another team I would have that player go over to the opposing team bench and apologize then he sits an inning. Flagrant disrespect results in me ejecting my own player from the game.
At no age below pro should we in the baseball community accept players exacting revenge against other players. The coaches should handle it. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 21:28:08
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| I encourage pitchers to pitch inside and don't be afraid to hit a batter. Better to hit a batter than serve one up over the plate. This is especially true if a batter is crowding the plate or the umpire won't give anything outside. If a pitcher is afraid to go inside they may miss down the middle and get burnt. So, if a pitcher misses and throws too far inside and hits the batter, oh well. Next time the batter won't crowd the plate. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 21:44:45
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| I think it is extremely difficult to teach or coach a game using different rules in different situations or for different ages. This is touchy because you are throwing at little boys, but I don't think it happens that often. Kids rounding the bases fist pumping like they are on Jersey Shore are usually the target, or when coaches steal signs. Most opposing coaches just change the indicator and it ends there. One example of different rules is my nephew plays SS, and while we have always taught him to clear the bag after making an out at 2nd last season he was the victim of many many takeout slides. Half the time the umpires would call the kid out regardless but other organizations don't have rules against this. I for one could care less if they are against the rules or not(they ARE part of the game), I just wish things were consistent. It is hard to give a player or parent an opinion or answer when every organization has a different rule for each age group. Kinda off topic to plunking, but when players get used to stealing signs or celebrating excessively eventually they will run into the pitcher or coach who has no issue with bruising ribs. The older ages seem to police themselves with things like slap tags, celebrating, and stealing signs. |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 02/06/2011 21:51:55 |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 21:51:33
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| I think it should never be done at any age or even in the pros. To me it is viscous to be throwing at somebody. That's one part of the game that turns me off. |
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Leftypitcher
26 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 22:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by biged
I encourage pitchers to pitch inside and don't be afraid to hit a batter. Better to hit a batter than serve one up over the plate. This is especially true if a batter is crowding the plate or the umpire won't give anything outside. If a pitcher is afraid to go inside they may miss down the middle and get burnt. So, if a pitcher misses and throws too far inside and hits the batter, oh well. Next time the batter won't crowd the plate.
Biged,
Let me make sure I understand your opinion here. If the umpire is not calling the outside corner, you will encourage through your own opinion and deeds that the pitchers you coach should throw inside to take it out on the opposing batters. Is this correct?
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 06:21:38
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Leftypitcher,
If you got "take it out on the opposing batter." from what Biged said, I am afraid you may be looking for an argument.
What I believe he was saying is, you have to teach pitchers to not be afraid to throw on the inside corner. Otherwise you give half the plate away. Sometimes that means coming inside a little to get a batter back off the plate so a pitch away can be effective. Sometimes that may result in a batter getting hit. That is part of the game. You can't be afraid to throw in there because you might hit a batter. It is about developing control to where you can throw inside, confidently, without hitting a batter.
I thought the topic was more around intentionally hitting a player. |
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Zcoach
151 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 08:13:07
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| Never, ever appropriate below minor leagues |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 08:17:19
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Biged is right on... pitching inside is part of the game and has nothing to do with purposely throwing AT someone. The pitcher has a right to the inside of the plate. I do not agree with plunking at any level.
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 08:23:19
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| If a coach calls for a "boy" to intentionally hit another "boy" with a baseball, that individual should never be allowed to coach again. Period. There is no gray area here. |
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thegoat
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 08:30:11
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| If a coach tells a kid to throw at another kid he should be banned fromed summer baseball period. Fist pump after a homerun, thats a good thing! Show emotion! Pitcher don't like it.. get him out next time. Below 17u if a pitcher throws at a kid on purpose take him out of the game immediately. I am not talking about pitching inside, and hitting someone. I am talking about throwing at someone to hurt them. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 09:24:37
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| Papa thinks that is sad that we have to even discuss this topic. Read my Lips when I say that there is no place in youth baseball for anyone that would intentionally endanger a child. We used to do something back in my day that worked well. We called in "Tar and Feathers" and this is just what I might be tempted to do now if anyone purposely tries to hurt one of mine. |
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22202
263 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 09:36:30
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| +1 SSBuckeye. I also think that if an UMP sees or thinks it is happening that he is just as responsible to put a stop to it and handle the situation immediately, that being a game ejection for the coach and pitcher! |
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bstand
56 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 10:01:37
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| I will be the devil's advocate here. Baseball, like life, has a way of policing itself. My question is if a player is playing dirty, and spikes a kid, or slaps a tag across his face, etc. (Any of a number of things that can happen in the course of a game that are difficult to prove intent, but dirty play nonetheless.) Once kids reach a certain age, I think that they are able to work out a lot of problems on their own. If a kid was on the receiving end of some dirty play, and then comes in to pitch, and hits a batter, is it immediately going to be assumed that this is retaliation? How do you prove that it is intentional? Pro pitchers lose control of the baseball as not all hit batters in the majors are intentional. It should be expected to follow then, that youth players will demonstrate a level of control much less than a pro pitcher. They are going to hit batters, and they will get hit by pitchers. I don't coach retaliatory pitching tactics, but I do teach my own children to defend themselves. I suppose my question is how do we determine if a kid is intentionally throwing at a batter? I mean, we need to be certain it isn't a mistake because posters in this forum have suggested punishments for the offending coach from physical beating to expulsion for the season. I imagine with those punishments on the line, we need to be able to definitively prove intent when a pitcher hits a batter. BTW, how is physically beating another coach any different than a kid plunking another kid? I thought we were supposed to set the example?! |
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4 seam
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 10:55:20
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I know of coaches that started throwing at kids at age 8. It has happened to my teams. They would always try to hit my pitchers. I also know of a coach that was bragging to me that he threw at 3 kids in one game at age 11. That team is now 12.
I think it is uncalled for and if a umpire has no doubt that a coach called for this that coach should be thrown out of the tournament and be banned from coaching.
I have been surprised that parents would allow this from there coach. |
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baldy87
118 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 10:55:43
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Throwing at someone is completely different from trying to pitch inside. If your pitcher is trying to throw a strike on the inside corner - that's part of the game and everyone agrees with that. Sometimes those pitches will get away and hit a batter - that's definitely part of the game.
If your pitcher has been told (directly or in-so-many words by the coach) to hit a batter - that coach should be out of the game, and out of coaching youth sports - period.
As for the "show some emotion" comment - I disagree with the specific example given (a homerun). I would encourage kids to pump their firsts and show some emotion at the end of the game when the TEAM wins - not when a player makes a good play as an individual. Nobody cares that you hit a home run (or turned a double play or made a great catch) if your team ends up losing the game anyway. |
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Phattso
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 11:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by bstand
I will be the devil's advocate here. Baseball, like life, has a way of policing itself. My question is if a player is playing dirty, and spikes a kid, or slaps a tag across his face, etc. (Any of a number of things that can happen in the course of a game that are difficult to prove intent, but dirty play nonetheless.) Once kids reach a certain age, I think that they are able to work out a lot of problems on their own. If a kid was on the receiving end of some dirty play, and then comes in to pitch, and hits a batter, is it immediately going to be assumed that this is retaliation? How do you prove that it is intentional? Pro pitchers lose control of the baseball as not all hit batters in the majors are intentional. It should be expected to follow then, that youth players will demonstrate a level of control much less than a pro pitcher. They are going to hit batters, and they will get hit by pitchers. I don't coach retaliatory pitching tactics, but I do teach my own children to defend themselves. I suppose my question is how do we determine if a kid is intentionally throwing at a batter? I mean, we need to be certain it isn't a mistake because posters in this forum have suggested punishments for the offending coach from physical beating to expulsion for the season. I imagine with those punishments on the line, we need to be able to definitively prove intent when a pitcher hits a batter. BTW, how is physically beating another coach any different than a kid plunking another kid? I thought we were supposed to set the example?!
I'm on this side of the fence. I do agree coaches should NEVER tell or encourage a "kid" to hit another "kid" in YOUTH baseball. However, those that say this shouldn't go on below pro's aren't being realistic. As a former college player (not pitcher), I can attest that as this poster says, the policing goes on in the game and it's usually at the pitcher's discretion. I can't really remember many, if any, times where a coach gave this instruction. When you look at your teammates like brothers, you will be quick to defend them. It's a dirty side of the game that, "is what it is".
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Scorekeeper
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 11:52:34
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Our big hitters get plunked early in almost every big game when we are playing a new to us team. At age 10U. Its not designed to intimidate the big guys, they don't care they just hit it harder next time, its designed to intimidate the other players.
Its the other teams shortstop or second baseman that takes the brunt of the plunked big hitters frustration cause we're stealing on the second pitch and sliding hard. Competitive kids go on a determined mission to score once they get plunked.
These kids police themselves very well at the top levels of most age groups. Coaches don't need to get involved and issue instructions. |
Edited by - Scorekeeper on 02/07/2011 13:40:41 |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 12:40:30
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Like fighting in hockey, there are things that occur in most sports that simply are what they are. Baseball has its share. And, when these things occur among knowledgeable and consenting (and usually professional) adults, then those boundaries are pretty well established and we know what is happening when we see it. But none of that activity has any place in youth sports. I think that is what most people are saying. Trying to determine intent at the youth level is certainly a worthwhile effort, and if solid evidence exists that coaches are doing these things, then they need to be shown the door. I don't have any real expectation that most of this activity would ever come to light. Would hope in those cases that the parents of those teams would help clean that up to the extent possible, but that's probably not always likely to happen.
At the end of the day, all I can do is control my own actions, that of my coaches and parents, and ensure that any other individual coaching one of my sons has the same perspective. |
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w.whambold
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 13:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Peanutsr
At what age does it become expected that a batter may get thrown at?
If a kid crowds the plate I can understand a little brush back or chin music down to 11 or 12. Do coaches ever plunk kids at 14,15....17?
yes. period. part of the game. get use to it. |
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Topic |
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Plunking batters
