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allaboutbaseball
22 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2011 : 21:00:42
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Curious on everyone's thoughts. Does your team post player statistics on the team website (accessible only to team members via password)? Do you think there is an age where the kids are too young to post statistics? Obviously - as the kids near high school - they become very public.
Is 9u too young? Do the kids with low batting averages (or low fielding percentage) get discouraged? Or is this meant as a motivation tool?
Or are they posted by coaches to communicate to parents why their kids spend more time on the bench or bat lower in the batting order?
I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. |
Edited by - allaboutbaseball on 01/20/2011 21:16:22 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:25:31
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| If the statistics are kept correctly I have no problem with them being posted at any age. Statistics very rarely lie(all of them, just a few on there own don't always tell the real story) and kids will have to see them the rest of their lives. We have always shown our book to any player or parent that asked, but we don't really keep sortable stats on an iScore type program. Obviously it would be the job of the parent to explain to the player that these stats should be used to find an area to improve. Not every kid is going to hit .400, that doesn't mean he can't still be important to his team. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:26:53
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| Post status when players start getting paid to play. Then they need to justify the value. Until then, stats are subjective. Without knowing the entire picture you can interpret stats any way you want. |
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excoach12
159 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:31:59
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I posted stats at the 9U level and had them password protected. I explained to parents that it was up to them if they wanted to show their son every other players stats. For some it was motivation to do better. I personally did not show my son anyone elses stats, just his own. That way he could see his improvement throughout the season.
Now at 10U I still keep them password protected and let the parents decide what works best for their players. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 23:02:04
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| I post them for the parents of my 11u team. I don't think any of the boys even see them. That's up to the parents to decide. |
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SMASH
253 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 23:32:54
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| Personally I don't think the kids need to see their stats. However, password protected stats for the parents to see makes sense to me. If you have an impartial, non-biased scorekeeper keeping your book, statistics can be a usefull tool for the coaches as well as justification and reasoning for the parents. "Why is my little Johnnie batting at the bottom of the order? Well... because numbers don't lie" |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 00:52:04
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| It can't be very hard to interpret a kid who hits .450-.500 every season...Statistics(when used correctly) can be very telling in how successful a player is. That is a whole other debate, but SOME parents can use stats to motivate their player to work harder and longer. The most important factor here is an impartial scorekeeper, I cannot begin to tell you all the people I have seen keep a book where every time their son put the ball in play they scored it a hit. If your scorekeeper doesn't keep a book properly I would bet the stats would be WAY out of whack! |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 01/21/2011 08:51:51 |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 05:59:30
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I think stats are for the benefit of the coaches. If a parent wants to see their players stats I don't have a problem with it but allowing parents to see the full team stats is a recipe for a lot of headachs. If you think parents complain about where Johnny is batting in the order without stats just wait until that mom or dad with little knowledge of stats or the game starts reading stats they don't fully understand. You'll have fights in the stands and coaches son will always be the target.
Spoken from experience. |
Edited by - beanball on 01/21/2011 08:51:51 |
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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 06:20:33
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I think that 9U and 10U is a little young to publish the team's stats for anyone on the team to see. I think that if a parent would like to see their child's stats that the coach should make their child's stats available to them, not the whole teams.
That being said, don't think that posting them password protected for only the parents is going to keep the kids from seeing them.
Every kid on the team who is intrested will know what the other kids stats are. |
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Mets69
70 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 08:44:17
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My son's team post stats on a password protected site. At first I didn't mind, but after the "official" scorekeeper made some obvious mistakes (ie. not receiving credit for a sacrifice bunt or fly ball), it became more of a distraction to the boys who were affected. Some of the boys felt that their average wasn't correct and should have been higher. Same held true for pitching stats (eg. assignment of earned runs).
I guess if you're going to share them amongst the team, then make sure they are done correctly ... but I'm not really sure they should be shared. Maybe they should be treated more privately like school grades, with the coach giving each player their stats after 10 or 15 games (ie. report card). The coach could talk to each player (and/or parent) individually and use the stats as necessary to point out areas where the player needs to improve. |
Edited by - Mets69 on 01/21/2011 08:51:51 |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 09:15:19
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I want to know all the stats all the time to measure my sons progress. From 5U-9U when the Coaches didn't share them, I'd just keep my own private stat sheet. Then, other parents would see me recording info, and ask me for my stats instead of asking the Coaches. To stay out of trouble with the Coaches, I kept them mostly to myself.
Last Spring when my son slumped at the plate, I used the information to inspire him to take some extra hitting lessons. 6 lessons later, his average went up ~100 points in the 2nd half of the season. Right now, I have 5 full seasons (9U Fall thru 11U Fall) of his hitting and pitching stats at my fingertips. Thanks Coaches!
When players are allowed to see the whole teams stats, I've seen it cause problems. Depends upon the maturity level of the player, but I'd say on average, 9U and 10U is too young, and 11U is iffy. Kids can be brutal to other kids with this kind of info, so be careful. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 09:35:39
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Mets69
You have it exactly rights |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 09:44:56
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Great topic!
Our experience has been---that the coachs that don't want to post stats are usually trying to protect there own sons stats from being seen. If they were seen the other parents would have a problem with why the coachs son is batting high in the order when their average is low & unproductive (not getting on base). Or why the coachs son makes the most errors and is not held accoutable like the rest of the team ie.--If little johny is playing 2nd and makes 2-4 errors in one inning he gets moved from that position and another player gets a chance but if coachs son is playing nothing happens. Or when coachs son is pitching and starts to give up runs he's not taken out until he's given up 10 runs??? (resulting in a loss) Any other pitcher would have been taken out before that. I've seen these scenarios play out time and time again last season. This same coach adamently didn't want stats posted for all to see. The usual COP OUT is, the coach says "I don't want 11 different parents to coach my team". IMHO, the team should be performanced based so if little stud johny practices twice as hard and performs better he is REWARDED.
Our experience with parents that don't want the rest of the team to see is---These are usaully the kids that aren't very productive, low average, makes more errors, fill in pitcher that gives up lots of runs, maybe low middle to bottom of the pack players, etc.
Our experience with parents who do want to see stats after every game---These are the stud players. These parents use the stats as a learning tool. These are usaully the super athlete kids with a unstopable drive to be the best they can be. These kids will work twice as hard to be better than the other studs on the team. These kids constantly push each other to be the BEST! Stats are a great tool to keep constant track of how your doing and how you compare to the rest of the team. My son loves stats because he's performance driven. He wants to be the best and I don't have to push him at all. If my son has a bad outing the stats immediately show this and he knows what needs to be worked on.
This has just been OUR experience and our opinion. These boys will have stats in High School so why not teach them now, good or bad. |
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baldy87
118 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 09:45:08
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| Good topic - I gotta chime in and say the game is for the kids - and teaching them about statistics is a big part of baseball. How do you figure batting average? How do you figure ERA? - Etc. Those were big parts of learning the game. And yes - I think it's fine for kids to see how they're doing compared to other kids. We had generations of kids who had their grades/stats posted for the world to see. And suddenly, we worry about letting someone see another's grade on a paper or their batting average? I think the over-sensitivity is a little much. Most kids can not only handle comparisons to others in terms of performance, but they can get extremely motivated from the competition. |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 09:45:54
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| Sadly, we live in an imperfect world. Competent score keepers, ones that know the difference between an error and a hit, an earned run, etc. is almost impossible to find for every single team that plays the game. There are coaches out there that don't even know how to keep the book correctly. With that said, in this Travel Ball climate, it is not a good idea to post them anywhere. Once any boy has seen his stats, either from parent or coach, the buzz begins in the dugout. It also begins in the stands. Do not post them ever. They don't need the stats, they aleady know where they stand and talk about it always with their teammates. None of us are professionals, players included. They will get their taste of it in High School. Trust me, there are enough ego-manical competitive parents on most teams that will be glad to tell you the team stats, the ones they believe are correct. Don't do it. Coaches, keep them for yourself. If a parent wants to know, talk with them in private and only show them their sons info, no one elses. Even that is too much. If you are honest with your team, there will be no issues, the trouble comes from ignorance and blind allegiance to their son. It is not team driven. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 10:51:03
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| We post our 12U stats online for all to see. We havent really had a probem as far as I know. My son loves to see them after every tourney to see how he has faired. I believe it is a very good motivational tool as it teaches them how important each at bat is and not to "waste" an at bat swinging at a ball that they cant drive. |
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lovthegame
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 12:05:46
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I keep reading on several "topics" about the scorekeeper and the stats. I keep the book for my sons team and I have since they were 8 (now 12)and for his older brother through out (now HS senior). I feel I keep a fair book. Your judgement does have to come into play sometimes, but just because Johnny made it to 1st does not mean he got a basehit. And just because he is headed back to the dugout doesn't mean he didn't do his job. I like the post somewhere else on the forum where the SK asked the other team how they would score it in a questionable situation. I keep the book but I give it to the coach and he plugs in all the stats and the pitiching. If he has a question he calls and we figure it out. Do I here it from other parents? YES ALL THE TIME!!!! My kid does'nt have the highest BA but if he did it would be b/c he earned it. "Fixing" the book is pointless, what they do is obvious on the field! I think if I wasn't doing a good job the coach would have replaced me by now......
FYI, Our coach does post the stats and has since the beginning. When the stats are done correctly it's true, "The numbers don't lie!" |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 12:53:48
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While batting statistics are useful tool, as a coach, I would also say that he stress to his kids that what is just as important is the focus on quality at bats. Lots of ways you make an out and help your team win. Where a player bats in the batting order has (should have?) a lot to do with what his goals at the plate are. My son's coaches have kept stats, shared them with parents, but not posted them and instructed each parent to use discretion in the decision whether or not to discuss them with their child, and not to discuss other kids stats with their child. This seems reasonable to me...
3. The Importance of Quality At-Bats
We welcome back a friend of The Batter's Box Chris Carter, Owner of the Coastal Baseball Academy in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, 843-236-9993
Owning the Coastal Baseball Academy in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and being a minor league hitting coach for the Washington Wild Things, many players often ask me the importance of quality at-bats compared to his batting average. If a player can produce successful quality at-bats through out the season, there is no doubt the batting average will rise. There are many different ways to judge quality at-bats. With the Washington Wild Things, we chart every at-bat for our team every game. This chart is similar to a scorecard, except it is more in depth. We always want to know what we officially did during the game whether it would be 0-4 or 4-4; but this chart also keeps track of quality at-bats. Moving a runner from 2nd to 3rd with no outs, a sac bunt, a successful hit and run, an RBI with a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs, 2 out RBI situations, a walk, a 10 pitch at-bat, hits, and hard hit balls are the nine things we pay a lot of attention to on our chart. When a player has a quality at-bat, it is marked with a 'Q' next to the result of that at-bat. At the end of the game the chart is tallied up to register what each player went for on the night plus how many quality at-bats each player had. The use of this chart has helped improve the way many of our players approach the game now. It has taught them that we play for the team, not the individual and each at-bat has a purpose. If you play for the hitter behind you, you not only help yourself but you are now setting up a situation to make your teammate successful too. When this happens, the ball club's offense is more dangerous. Again, this makes every at-bat have a purpose.
Focusing on quality at-bats is something that can be done on any level of baseball. Baseball is a game where failure is a big player. Many young players don't understand that failure is a part of the game. It is our duty as coaches to teach them to find success even when we fail as a hitter (not getting a hit). Keeping an average on quality at-bats helps players deal with failure; it shows us we can succeed even when we fail. Ultimately, this will help your team become better and your ball club will win more baseball games.
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 13:20:59
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| Lefty, great post. Just last night our coach asked all the kids on the team if they knew a certain MLB player and most said yes. Then asked what is his average? Hall of fame player (hitter) and his average was 350. He then told all the players that the game of baseball is about failing 65% of the time to be a great player. And then he said it's how you deal with failure that makes you a great player. It's OK to fail in baseball as long as you learn from it and try to be better. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 14:56:23
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| I don't know that there's one right answer, but after playing on a team where the stats were hidden, I think net/net there are more problems with that approach than with sharing. I have not yet had a problem generated by providing that information to parents. That said, it helps that we have an excellent score keeper that keeps stats as though we are a MLB team and does so consistently. No favoritism is important, I agree. I'm sure some of the boys see the stats, and I'm fine if they do. It's going to happen sooner or later, though neither of my sons looks at the stats. |
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Strike 2
61 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 23:20:34
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| Well said Lefty. |
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Hitman
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 22:30:29
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| Iron sharpens iron. I don't see a problem posting them 12U and up. It's part of the game. |
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10 BB
264 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 08:23:45
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| I think a big thing with published team ave. that are not password protected is that other coaches can learn the strengths and weaknesses on your team! I personally don't need an ave. to know if my son is being successful at the plate. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 22:45:24
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| I think you should use the stats to not only motivate the player but also to teach them what the stats mean and how they can be improved. Such as teaching them that every walk or sacrifice they get helps to keep their average down as opposed to strike/out ground out/pop up from swinging at bad pitches..Every time they get an extra base hit there slugging pct goes up.Several little things that make them think about the bigger picture.I think not sharing the stats with the kids is only sheltering them .If they are not performing consistently they should know that they may need to work harder or get assistance to correct or enhance their performance. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 22:47:59
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| shoulda been keeps their average up. Its late!!! |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2011 : 23:25:38
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| Sheltering is a term that doesn't get used NEARLY enough on this website!! Well said Coach D |
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Publish Statistics?
