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ingasven
120 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2010 : 08:50:01
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What a very interesting weekend. Congrats to the 13U Astros & Titans for making it to the final and hats off to the young guns on the Tourney Championship.
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goyard
217 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:08:36
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| Emotional Highs to Emotional lows - The Hunters turning into the Hunted and vice versa - that's what makes our baseball in this fine and talented area SO EXCITING. Any one of our boys clubs can take a hit as well as deliver one on any given day - they continue to provide us with the full entertainment and memories that we pay for! We should give a hats off to all clubs that attended the tourney and to our young men who deliver the excitement roller coaster - ain't it grand!!! THERE ARE MANY TEAMS THAT ARE FOR REAL IMHO!!! Not just two or three most talked about - good job to all you young men who play your heart out and deliver us with memories that will last a lifetime! Ups and downs and back and fourths are what make this travel ball so incredible!!! Good tourney all around and plenty more to come I am sure! also, good job coaches and managers who have to juggle and make the decisions that we observers have the luxury to agree with and/or second guess - we appreciate all of you as well!!! |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:57:31
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
We saw some great baseball this weekend, especially on Sunday. Didn't get to see the 13 YO Astros, but the Titans, 14 YO Astros and Stallions are all solid and approach the game the right way.
Just curious though, because we always talk about how travel is preparing the players for the next level. When will they ever be asked to play 4 games in a day? I can't imagine that a fresh Titans vs a fresh 13 YO Astros would end up 13-12. Probably more like 3-2 or 4-3.
It might have been exciting, but was it quality baseball?
Are you suggesting that only low scoring games are indicative of quality baseball ? Wow, I guess we can tell our hitters to stop hitting and being offensive as that may be playing "low quality baseball" !
If you would have went to the game, you'd have seen the equivalent of two heavy weights going toe to toe, punch for punch, strategy after strategy, round after round ! There were a few errors but any good game has errors if you're being offensive and aggressive. There was also some incredible defensive plays and some great pitching. However, offense was being served as "the daily special" and these boys did not disappoint !
Congrats to both teams for playing "high quality" offensive baseball !!! |
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madimo11
33 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 11:05:31
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Wow alot of ECB bashing, why do peole hate ECB so much, not all teams at ECB are at the top of their game. Look 6-4-3 has a solid program, but their 15u team has lost some big time players out for the summer.
Team Rawlings has 3 solid players, Stallions are good, Titans are fringy, the 15u Titans are huge, saw them this weekend they have a ton of arms and can hit.
There are alot of quality programs, so stop bashing ECB, good program good players. |
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straightalk
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 12:26:51
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All-Star
The 13-u Astros averaged over 12-runs per game starting early Saturday thru late Sunday. The boys can hit, pitch and play good defense. No more excuses, give these young men and thier coaches some credit. |
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straightalk
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 12:30:16
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All-Star
I forgot to mention that the Titans pitched their ace who had only pitched one inning the entire tourny before meeting the Astros and he got knocked out in the second inning. So I dont think fatigue was a factor for the high score. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
We saw some great baseball this weekend, especially on Sunday. Didn't get to see the 13 YO Astros, but the Titans, 14 YO Astros and Stallions are all solid and approach the game the right way.
Just curious though, because we always talk about how travel is preparing the players for the next level. When will they ever be asked to play 4 games in a day? I can't imagine that a fresh Titans vs a fresh 13 YO Astros would end up 13-12. Probably more like 3-2 or 4-3.
It might have been exciting, but was it quality baseball?
My earlier response was not posted....suffice it to say, YES, allstar, it was a quality game, despite your assumption to the contrary. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 17:32:03
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quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
We saw some great baseball this weekend, especially on Sunday. Didn't get to see the 13 YO Astros, but the Titans, 14 YO Astros and Stallions are all solid and approach the game the right way.
Just curious though, because we always talk about how travel is preparing the players for the next level. When will they ever be asked to play 4 games in a day? I can't imagine that a fresh Titans vs a fresh 13 YO Astros would end up 13-12. Probably more like 3-2 or 4-3.
It might have been exciting, but was it quality baseball?
My earlier response was not posted....suffice it to say, YES, allstar, it was a quality game, despite your assumption to the contrary.
I didn't assume anything. I asked a question. Generally speaking, not always, every time, 100% of the time, but in general, on average, a lower scoring game implies a better pitched, better played game. If that wasn't the case this time, fine. Hats off to the boys whatever the case.
I prefaced it by saying that I haven't seen the 13U Astros, but the Titans are a quality team and they go about things the right way.
What really didn't get answered was my original question. What level are we preparing them for where they will play 4 games in a day? |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 09:25:50
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by gasbag
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
We saw some great baseball this weekend, especially on Sunday. Didn't get to see the 13 YO Astros, but the Titans, 14 YO Astros and Stallions are all solid and approach the game the right way.
Just curious though, because we always talk about how travel is preparing the players for the next level. When will they ever be asked to play 4 games in a day? I can't imagine that a fresh Titans vs a fresh 13 YO Astros would end up 13-12. Probably more like 3-2 or 4-3.
It might have been exciting, but was it quality baseball?
My earlier response was not posted....suffice it to say, YES, allstar, it was a quality game, despite your assumption to the contrary.
I didn't assume anything. I asked a question. Generally speaking, not always, every time, 100% of the time, but in general, on average, a lower scoring game implies a better pitched, better played game. If that wasn't the case this time, fine. Hats off to the boys whatever the case.
I prefaced it by saying that I haven't seen the 13U Astros, but the Titans are a quality team and they go about things the right way.
What really didn't get answered was my original question. What level are we preparing them for where they will play 4 games in a day?
AllStar - If I'm understanding your other question correctly, it's that in High School ball, they don't play 4 games in a day, so how does this help them prepare for High School when that is the next level for them ? I think it has a few answers vs. just one. Travel Ball is usually a higher caliber of baseball in and of itself. The quality of teams is more abundant, the amount of games is much more, and the intensity level is usually higher. Playing 4 games in one day with those traits, gets the ballplayers more quality reps. Will playing 4 games in one day prepare them in High School where they usually play a 3 game series through the playoffs to capture the State crown over a 3 or 4 day period ? In and of itself , I'd say no, but you can't leave out the other traits which I believe tilt the answer in favor of YES overall.
Now, jump two steps up to College. The College World Series plays even more games than the State High School playoffs. The traits mentioned above for travel ball, become even more important as that gets much closer to 4 game in a day mentality etc. The skills developed during their Travel Ball years will have prepared them for the intensity of garnering a State or National crown.
Now here is an interesting question, is High School ball the "next" level ? That would assume High School ball is a higher caliber and provides them for the next level after that. I may open a huge can of worms here, but it's an honest question....perhaps the next level really is College vs. High School. Travel Ball gets played usually to their 18th year. Although High School ball complements Travel Ball and vice versa, I'm not sure I'd assume High School ball is the next level.
Just something to ponder I guess !
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Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 11:07:06
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1) I disagree that the intensity level is higher in travel than high school. High School games have much more emotion and typically many more fans for the big games and regional rivalries.
2) High School ball is the preference of the kids, and they would almost unanimously choose high school over travel if they were mutually exclusive.
3) Doting parents don't like high school ball because they lose all control over their kid (to the coaches). |
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Top Gun
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 11:31:56
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I think I understand where All-Star is coming from here. It is not only physically tough to get up for four games in-a-row, but it's also mentally tough. You can also see how tournaments like last weekend can turn based on emotional games. Even game-to-game.
For example, a Stallions player told me he felt like he had already mentally played 4 games after the emotional win versus the 14U Astros. To turn around 20 minutes later and try to bring back the same mental emotion is really tough. Especially when you are playing a talented team like the 13U Astros. Eventually you get back to that emotional level, but sometimes it takes a few innings and by then it's too late and you run out of time.
You can see why it's tough for any team carrying 12 players to compete in these kinds of tournaments. Eventually lack of pitching depth is going to bite you in the rear. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 12:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Topscout
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3) Doting parents don't like high school ball because they lose all control over their kid (to the coaches).
Good for kid now he can make it break it on own
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straightalk
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 13:00:02
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| 6-4-3 Got it right. The scouts now days go the the showcases to see the kids they are looking to recruit. They can see many of them in one spot over one weekend and not have to travel around the state to highschool games to see one or two. Travelball gives them 3-5 games a weekend, 9-15 at bats and 21-42 innings in the field to showcase and to improve their game. The kid that plays 80 games per year vs. the kid that plays 22 highschool games will make it to the next level 99% of the time over the highschool kid. |
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Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 16:27:56
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Some are clearly missing my point - High School ball is the major leagues for 15-18 year old boys (fans, friends, crowds, pride, rivalry).
I am not saying it is the highest in terms of quality of play - clearly a travel team with a compilation of all-stars from each high school has better overall talent.
As I said before - 99% of kids will tell you he prefers to play high school games rather than travel ball games. |
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brownie1
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 22:05:49
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| 99% of kids? Did you take a poll? I know my kid would rather play on his travel team. It is a team made up of kids who are basically the same talent level. High school ball is like playing rec-ball again. You have a few kids that are great, a few good & a few not so good. Yes - you have the team spirit, fans, friends, etc. But it gets very frustrating for the kids who are at the next level to play with kids who are clearly NOT at the next level. How could that be preferrable to travel ball? Also - you can ask any baseball scout & they will tell you that the only time they look at kids on their high school team is the season that they are draft eligible. Prior to that the kids get on the radar, the scouts see them & evaluate them on their summer travel team - not their high school team. |
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 23:00:39
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Topscout,
Every one of our players that have been playing varsity or JV (100%) have not been able to wait until HS games were over and they could get to Travel ball, where the level of play is so much better. Not a single one put HS ball over travel.
You statement that 99% of kids will tell you they prefer HS to travel can't be further from the truth. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 23:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Topscout
1) I disagree that the intensity level is higher in travel than high school. High School games have much more emotion and typically many more fans for the big games and regional rivalries.
2) High School ball is the preference of the kids, and they would almost unanimously choose high school over travel if they were mutually exclusive.
3) Doting parents don't like high school ball because they lose all control over their kid (to the coaches).
3 - Dude, I gave up Coaching my kid two years ago as he outgrew my knowledge of the game. I am more than happy to turn him over to a quality Coach with a knowledge and understanding of the game....I guess you are under the assumption that High School Coaches all possess this ? WRONG !!!! Has absolutely nothing to do with High School and me being a"doting parent".
2 - You're going to have to substantiate your claim that kids prefer High School ball over Travel Ball...in short prove it. From my observations and experience , you have it backwards.
3 - Big games and Regional rivalries, how many of those you playing in your +- 20 game High School season ? My guess is there are more rivalries and well played contentious games in travel ball...does travel ball have the same sense of school spirit, NO, but I've been to plenty of Travel Ball games in packed stands for good games. Based on my recollection, the High School fans only come out for a State contending Team not regular season, non competitive games etc. |
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Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 08:29:13
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35 year old dad is sitting down talking to his 12 year old son about his past experiences with baseball. He is talking about how when he was 16 he played in a perfect game tournament and won a game with a walk off two run homer against a kid who went on to play as high as AA level. He looks up and the kid has fallen asleep.
In the next house over, a similar conversation is taking place, only in this house the Dad is talking about how he hit a walk off two run homer at Kell High School to beat Pope to win the regional championship. The Dad talks about all the high fives he got at school the next day and how he was acknowledged even by the teachers. The kids face lights up as he imagines being there and experiencing beating his rivals and feeling the pride. |
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BBmaniac
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 08:46:07
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| Brownie is absolutely correct. Top players look at high school ball as not much more than a tune up to get to their travel teams. Travel baseball is pure baseball while school ball is ripe with drama. School funding, the lack of coaching talent, the politics etc typically has both player, fan and parent anxious for the travel season to begin. There is real competition both within the team for playing time as well as with the opponents. Top players realize early on that their best chances of getting exposure to the next level is far better playing travel than school ball. And with the pending budget cuts and the like, this is likely only to become even more so. |
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 09:06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Topscout
35 year old dad is sitting down talking to his 12 year old son about his past experiences with baseball. He is talking about how when he was 16 he played in a perfect game tournament and won a game with a walk off two run homer against a kid who went on to play as high as AA level. He looks up and the kid has fallen asleep.
In the next house over, a similar conversation is taking place, only in this house the Dad is talking about how he hit a walk off two run homer at Kell High School to beat Pope to win the regional championship. The Dad talks about all the high fives he got at school the next day and how he was acknowledged even by the teachers. The kids face lights up as he imagines being there and experiencing beating his rivals and feeling the pride.
Well put TopScout, but all the other posts are correct too. Imagine that - you are all right. Baseball is baseball - there are exciting games and boring games, well played games and poorly played games Some games are pretty boring in travel ball too, and by the way many pool games are just as lopsided in terms of talent as many HS games. HS ball does not have the exclusive on bad baseball. These experiences offer different things to different players (skill wise and experience wise). Good news here - you can do both, or just one or the other.
Speaking for my kid, I know he enjoys hanging in a dugout with everyone, except right after a strikeout (oh yeah and he does not like his dad in there either). Kids get different rewards from Travel Ball vs. HS. In Travel they get to see how they stack up against the best and bragging rights in their park; in HS they get to strut around campus before and after big games. Both games/experiences are great and sometimes for different reasons.
You are all right. |
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dadof6
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 09:30:52
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| I KEEP HEARING ABOUT THE BAD COACHING IN HIGH SCHOOL. I SEE PLENTY OF BAD COACHING IN TRAVEL BALL TOO!! |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 10:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by JCB
quote:
Originally posted by Topscout
35 year old dad is sitting down talking to his 12 year old son about his past experiences with baseball. He is talking about how when he was 16 he played in a perfect game tournament and won a game with a walk off two run homer against a kid who went on to play as high as AA level. He looks up and the kid has fallen asleep.
In the next house over, a similar conversation is taking place, only in this house the Dad is talking about how he hit a walk off two run homer at Kell High School to beat Pope to win the regional championship. The Dad talks about all the high fives he got at school the next day and how he was acknowledged even by the teachers. The kids face lights up as he imagines being there and experiencing beating his rivals and feeling the pride.
Well put TopScout, but all the other posts are correct too. Imagine that - you are all right. Baseball is baseball - there are exciting games and boring games, well played games and poorly played games Some games are pretty boring in travel ball too, and by the way many pool games are just as lopsided in terms of talent as many HS games. HS ball does not have the exclusive on bad baseball. These experiences offer different things to different players (skill wise and experience wise). Good news here - you can do both, or just one or the other.
Speaking for my kid, I know he enjoys hanging in a dugout with everyone, except right after a strikeout (oh yeah and he does not like his dad in there either). Kids get different rewards from Travel Ball vs. HS. In Travel they get to see how they stack up against the best and bragging rights in their park; in HS they get to strut around campus before and after big games. Both games/experiences are great and sometimes for different reasons.
You are all right.
I think there are two answers to the question posed, "does playing 4 games in a day get the kids ready for the next level" ? I tend to believe that High School & Middle School Ball prepares the elite kids for Travel Ball and not vice versa. However, Travel Ball has a variety of levels and it is not only for the elite. For kids on the less skilled level, does the bundled games of a Travel Ball tournament prepare them for High School....I'd have to say YES again as it increases their reps and experience. If you are fortunate enough that there is a life after Travel Ball ( for those playing at the elite levels ), then it's off to College or into the Pro's. Again, my answer is a resounding YES....Travel Ball and it's bundled games does prepare the players for the next level.
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 10:55:28
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| Wow! That Triple Crown tournament topic took a major left turn. I appreciate the intricacies of travel baseball. Whether you have 12 players or 20 players, you still have to field the ball, throw stikes and hit the ball to score runs. If you selected only 4 or 5 pitchers to be on your team, especially if you enter Major and Open events, you are already behind the 8 ball with a 5 or 6 game weekend. Most Major teams have 5-7 pitchers or more and if you get a complete game out of one or two them, you are in the drivers seat. Hats off to the 13U Astros for competing at all levels in this tournament. Let's see how they would fair later this summer with a few more games under everyones belts. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 12:50:42
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| Oldman, I was just about to say the same thing. I was going to say a right turn. |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 17:40:29
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| hope your not trying to take away by saying lets wait and see what happens later..the best 14u team in ga is a 13u team and then everyone else |
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