| Author |
 Topic  |
|
mammabee
95 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2010 : 09:14:30
|
mr alter youre opinion is respected with me but I strong disagree here.
you want they should protect some teams from losing in pool play so to keep a so called "balance" but now thats just out and out favortism protecting some teams over the others!
how bout make em earn it going to the gold by winning in pools play : no matter who they play?
im saying who says the Silver teams want to play silver either maybe they want to try and win in gold a game or two and want to have a even chance to get there
mr Tony are you out there looking in to explain all this ?
quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
In order to allow for the Gold and Silver brackets to fall out like they should, there should never be a scenario where the EC Titans, EC Rawlings, EC Stallions, EC Longhorns, Milton Eagles, Team Gwinnett (either team), PC Vipers (if they are in it)end up in the same pool. There will be teams that float between the gold and silver depending on how they play in pool, but you don't want to have one of the above teams in the silver, because that changes the balance in the silver.
If you look at the brackets, the teams that were suited for the Silver, are down there (congrats to the PS Seminoles for a very quality win.) because they are playing at that level.
While you can always argue between the bottom 3 or 4 of the gold and the top 3 or 4 of the silver, the others all ended up where they belonged.
Kudos to TC for adding in the split of Gold and Silver. This gives teams an opportunity to seed out from pool play into their respective brackets.
|
 |
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 09:57:40
|
Two points, 6-4-3, this is not Scott. Secondly, I have no idea how Tony draws these up, so I don't want to put words in his mouth.
I have yet to see any way that anyone has come up with for setting pools that people don't complain about. The only unbiased way to do it is to blind draw names out of a hat by having the coaches come to a pre-tournament meeting and draw their number out themselves. Have the pools already detailed out, with just numbers on them, then let the coaches draw their own number. The only problem is getting it done in enough time for the teams to know whether they play on Fri night or not.
If you do it based on what I listed above, there is bias because of the teams past results. (Unfortunately TC does not do a ranking so anyone filling out the pools would have to know the teams well.)
If you do it based on points, like USSSA does, there is bias toward teams that have played more USSSA events than others.
As for the statement about teams in the silver might want to play in the gold to win a game or two, all they need to do is go 1-1 and keep their differential low (close to the 0 mark).
If the tournament has a distribution of Major, AAA, and AA teams, how should the pools be set up?
Mammabee and 6-4-3, I would like to hear how you would have drawn the pools up for the teams in this tournament, and what logic was used. I say this next sentence with sincerity, Maybe there is a better way that I don't know about. I would be interested in hearing other potential ways of doing it. |
|
|
|
jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 10:52:11
|
As for the statement about teams in the silver might want to play in the gold to win a game or two, all they need to do is go 1-1 and keep their differential low (close to the 0 mark).
Same can be said for Gold..they can go 1-1 and play a tough team.
Does anyone think it would be a better format to just let teams sign up for Gold and silver before it starts? That way you would not have lopsided games and teams who are silver bound could just have 3 decent games min, instead of getting routed then have 2 games.
Seems like the EC teams are afraid to play each other early on and upset the family apple cart. Probably playing at reduced rates when in these as well |
|
|
|
bat man
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 11:27:52
|
| I say, "Quit your belly-achin" and let the kids play ball! The best team usually wins the championship game!! If it really bothers you so much, stay out of triple crown tourneys. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 12:50:00
|
Jaguar,
I think letting teams sign up for Gold or Silver brackets is a good idea. That way if a AAA team wants to push itself, they could play in the Gold. If they wanted to challenge to win, then sign up for the Silver.
As for the "Probably playing at reduced rates when in these as well" statement, don't kid yourself. None of the teams get a cost break. Not even a quantity discount.
And it's not that the EC teams are afraid of playing each other but those same teams are the ones that you typically scrimmage against. Who wants to play pool games against teams you have scrimmaged against 5 times already. If you are going to do that, then it is cheaper to just get two other teams together and scrimmage at the park during practice time. You can't do anything about it when it gets to elimination play, like happened with the Titans and Rawlings, but pool play you can. |
|
|
|
michaelp
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 13:36:59
|
| I like the thought of being able to sign up for gold or silver as well. I called two games on Saturday and both games were 11-0 after the top of the first inning. That does not seem like much fun for anyone. |
|
|
|
Columnist
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 14:43:28
|
Lots of good stuff to weigh in on here.
1. I am not a Communist Jim. I love my country very much 
2. The Stallions were very impressive this weekend with all aspects of their game and will be fun to watch. But I was really impressed with the fact that after Friday night's upset to the Warriors, the Titans staved off getting dropped to the Silver Division against a very good Powder Springs team. Then went on to beat Team Rawlings, Team Gwinnett and Milton. Very impressive tournament Titans. If Jim would quit bragging about them so much, I'd like them even better 
3. Milton is for real, and the Longhorns had another impressive weekend. Also props to Powder Springs and the Roswell Hornets for strong tournaments. You don't want Roswell in your pool.
4. On the subject of pool drawings, how does someone make the case in this tournament that the pools were drawn up unfairly. The Stallions, for example, drew Starrs Mill and the War Hawks. Several on this board had Starrs Mill in the Final 4. The War Hawks made it to the Final 8. Tony did move the War Hawks to a different pool, but the orginal draw had them in with the Stallions. The Titans had the Warriors, who beat them 12-4, and the Silver Bracket Champion Powder Springs. Teams like the Stallions, Titans, Milton and Paulding County don't worry about burning pitching in pool play. They have plenty of it.
5. If you talk to most of the coaches from AAA teams, and they are really honest with you, they will tell you that they want their kids to compete against the best teams in pool play to gauge where they REALLY are, then are happy to play in the Silver Division where they have a chance. Nothing worse than accidently beating a power house, then being eliminated in the first round of the Gold Division because you don't have the horses to compete. They would rather play 5 games than 3. It's all about game experience for these teams.
GOD BLESS AMERICA |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 14:52:32
|
6's,
Sorry, I was confused on the Scott reference. Makes sense now.
In the ranking of what maybe should be done, mine would be:
1) Let people choose between Gold and Silver
2) Create a points system and rank teams. Serpentine through the brackets (simply make it 1 pt for each TC tournament played in and 1 point for each win. A team playing in 5 TC tournaments and winning 0 games would have the same points as a team that played 1 event and won 4 games. Maybe give the winner 5 points or something. It does not have to be complicated.)
3) Draw all names from a hat.
|
|
|
|
scottwill311
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 15:31:15
|
643,
Go back thru all TC tourneys for the year and look at final 4 in each bracket(gold /silver). Out of the silver brackets name 1 team(no offense intended) that had a solid chance to make final 4 in the gold bracket.Also, your top 5 ranking has no teams that have been in the silver bracket final 4, they have consistantly been gold bracket final 4. Based on your rankings the Triple Crown pool schedule has worked effectively. EC Longhorns should be ranked 4A, always in or near final 4. |
|
|
|
ecguy24
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 22:10:31
|
| Columnist- In my opinion everybody has to worry about burning pitching in poolplay. For example the titans this past weekend had a bad loss to the warriors so they had to throw a top of the rotation pitcher against the Seminoles just to get a low seed in the gold bracket. That low seed got them an extra game (rather than getting a bye) in tournament play which burned out pitching and by the time they got to the championship were out of pitching. |
|
|
|
PutMeInCoach
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 22:13:14
|
| And just when Triple Crown thought they had the best game in town someone starts this rigged pool play crap... When USSSA set pools by the points system we all whined about it. Now TC sets 'em up and we all whine about it. In tournament number 1 we complained about the Stallions and their addded talent. Now we are complaining about pools. Is there a santioning body that will allow us to pick our pool play opponents and set the rosters for all the opposing teams? Maybe they could go a step further and let us all show up on Friday at about 5:00 pm, pool all the players, have a draft and then start the tournament? Sound impractical? Bingo! So is pleasing everyone in a highly competitive event week in and week out. I say keep bringing us quality tournaments Tony, you have far and away had the best game in town for 14U so far this season. You have the best communication before and during the tournament. Someone said "quit all the belly aching and let the kids play ball!" Now that is a statement I agree with. |
|
|
|
TripleCrownAdministrator
240 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 09:08:06
|
To all parents, players, and coaches:
I WANT TO SAY FIRST THAT THERE IS NO PERFECT SCIENCE FORMULA TO CREATE THE PERFECT POOL PLAY AND TOURNAMENT ANY WHERE! IF THERE WAS, THEN THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE ORGANIZATION TO GOVERN THIS AND THAT IS ALL EVERYONE WOULD EVER WANT TO PLAY!
I believe in freedom of choice for tournaments. Go play USSSA, AAU, USTBA, and others to experience other organizations and the way they operate. Some of these guys cater to different levels of competition right out of the gate (MAJOR, AAA, AA). Others cater to giving trophies in 3 different age groups with 4 teams in each group. Others want you to go and experience Disney for 7 games. Every one of these guys offer something different. This is what sets us all apart.
Going back to how pool play is created with Triple Crown Sports. It is really done basically by pulling it out of a hat. I get a ton of schedule requests from coaches all the way up until it is time to schedule. I usually have a limited amount of teams who can even play Friday night. So if you are upset about what pool you are in, then be open and request to play Friday night. I know your kids want to go be with their friends, prom, and other cool stuff for high school kids to do Friday night. The fact of the matter is the teams usually get a better draw if they can play on Friday night.
Next I try to avoid teams from the same park playing each other in pool play the best I can. Obviously it was impossible this past weekend. Many east cobb teams played each other in pool play because half the tournament was East Cobb. After this is completed the best I can, I move on to the teams who can play on Saturday.
Now some teams tell me that I got a couple kids who have high school ball on Saturday morning and need a game after lunch. Now I have to put them in a pool where that afternoon game will fall. I then try to even the pools up the best I can in this last step. This is where I do not like to put majors versus majors in pool play when we break up into gold and silver. However, I will do a great matchup in pool play (example: East Cobb Astros versus Paulding County Vipers last year) when pool play just determines seeding in one bracket.
So as you can see there are many different scenarios. My advice to all of the teams, is to QUIT GIVING ME SCHEDULE REQUESTS when they are not needed. Obviously, there are emergency things that come up, but for your team to call me every time we have a tournament is a little crazy. Your team signed up to play a tournament Friday night, all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. Please honor the time commitment that you put forth when you signed up to play the tournament.
I just wanted to address the issue because I saw several people wanting answers to how it is all played out. We do not use points or any kind of system like the others. Their system needs tweeking. It just shows that you paid and played in more tournaments than the next team. So you deserve the higher seed over the other team that just started???? Your team is already better than the team that just started???? The system gives you a false sense of security and just gives teams a chance to beat on their chest a little bit. Then they find out that their team really is not that good and they were beating on a small and hollow chest.
Finally, we want to thank all of the teams who have come out and enjoyed our tournaments over the years. We try to give everyone an open and professional tournament experience. Provide the best possible facilities and competition for everyone to challenge their kids to get to the next level. This is what we strive for and try to give everyone an opportunity to do so. Otherwise, if you are looking for that tallest trophy or want to be the best double A team in the state, you will definitely not find that here!
Thank you and look forward to hosting your club at a future event in 2010!
Tony VonDolteren
GA Triple Crown Baseball
|
|
|
|
teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:17:27
|
since they are pulled out of a hat can we monitor the drawing? have it mid week somewhere? no way they are drawn out of a hat or there would be teams playing each other that really would rather not.
And if you avoid teams from same park that is saying no east cobb teams will have to play each other and funny how when they do its the top dawg vs the bottom dog. I have no problem with however you do it but hat draw? come on |
|
|
|
jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:31:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by 6-4-3
Scottwill311 - East Cobb Longhorns haven't won a tournament with the big boys. Stallions, Titans, PCV and Milton have. I understand they were also beaten in a tournament by a South Gwinnett feeder or AAA classed team? I know they beat Milton by 1 previously...but.
Ill give them the coveted 6th spot for now until they beat one of my top 5 and not lose to feeder teams.
Did watch parts of Longhorns games over weekend.
Agree too that winning a big boys or major tournament is to be recognized .
Win a AAA tournament thats ok to why not play some ball
Tournament this weekend had all the competition required to show if could win a major .
|
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 10:39:29
|
teddy,
I think Tony's explanation of how all the requests influence the brackets is very important to understand. Having hosted tournaments in the past, I can say this is probably the single biggest headache of the process. Once the tournament starts, most of the issues die down.
Tony and TC do a great job and 90% of the people leaving the park after the tournament are satisfied. That is shown by the number of teams that come back, and the positive feedback Tony gets. Unfortunately the other 10% can make enough noise to make it sound like they are a majority, even when they are not close.
I think Tony does a great job in managing it all, and knowing some of the specific requests he gets, from some of the same teams week after week, it is suprising he does not reply with "You have got to be freakin kiddin me." He definately has the right temperment for the TD trade.
btw, Tony lives in Jacksonville so if anyone wants to go down there on Tuesday to help draw out the brackets, just let him know.
Great work Tony. |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 04/20/2010 11:48:58 |
|
|
|
whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:11:43
|
so if you are not from EC you will play a team from EC as the law of averages would say so if they can't be pooled against each other.
Maybe have a WED night play in game for EC teams OR let EC teams draw players names from a hat and they play with the EC team they land on that weekend. That would be fun to watch |
|
|
|
crackedbats
160 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 12:17:51
|
| as a AAA team playing this past weekend...I would say that the draw was as even as possible(though our second opponent was switched 2-3 times-and ultimately not to our advantage.) The major teams seemed to be split evenly. Whats to complain about? Only so much you can do as a tournament director. Play ball. |
|
|
|
teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 13:40:51
|
TD"S accomodate teams in order to obtain their money plain and simple. That will never change as it is a for profit business.
Have you ever heard a tournament that couldnt take any more teams?
Request away if you must, nothing wrong with one hand helping the other at times. In a perfect world all kids would be able to play anytime day or night and directors would not take request. But that is not going to happen as long as there is competition for your $$ |
|
|
|
Columnist
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 14:19:30
|
I personally think Tony and Triple Crown do a great job. As Alter said, you don't have 20+ teams coming back every weekend if the format is not acceptable to a majority of coaches.
ECBGUY24 - I understand the point you are making, but the Titans still had quality pitchers throwing in the Championship game. It may not have been their #1, #2 or even #3 choice to throw at the Stallions, but they were still quality pitchers. And they arrived at that point in the tournament not only because they had to win big on Saturday morning because of Friday night's upset, but because they also had to run through Rawlings, Gwinnett and Milton during bracket play. If one of those teams were weak sisters, they might have had closer to their #1 choice when they got to the Stallions. It's just the way the brackets worked out when pool play was finished. I think that it proves my point about the pitching depth these strong majors have. |
Edited by - Columnist on 04/20/2010 14:59:11 |
|
|
|
scottwill311
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 15:09:29
|
Fellas,
You are bashing a tournament director that actually gives a dang about coaches,player, and parent requests! When Triple Crown was run by the lady before,it had maybe 8 teams per age group.Tony is bringing in more teams on a weekend than most World Series! This is a business for Tony and in order to survive he has to grant some special requests--like it or not! 643-so you think it would be more exciting to see a #1 seed play the #24 seed in the first round, because there is that slight chance of an upset? If I was #24 seed would prefer to play #18,with the chance of playing more baseball. Also the thought of drawing pools out of hat and leaving the schedule as is-- how would you like to show up to the park and find out the opposing team was a no show after you drove 1.5 hours?! Tony takes requests so everyone has a chance to play! Here is a thought:643- Set up a game between the Gold winner and the Silver winner on Wednesday after the tourney-- Tony- keep up the good work of supplying Georgia with quality tournaments! Thanks for all you do! P.S.-643 please don't refer to the silver members as NOBODIES- thanks |
Edited by - scottwill311 on 04/20/2010 19:30:33 |
|
|
|
scottwill311
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 15:39:46
|
| This just in--no complaints found from the other 5 age groups, in the Triple Crown Back to School,regarding the pool schedules! |
Edited by - scottwill311 on 04/20/2010 19:30:46 |
|
|
|
baseballnation
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 17:34:14
|
| You rascals quit beating the horse to death. Triple Crown is clearly better than any other tournament out there. Good communication, well run, scores updated online, and fair. Good coaches are always working angles, so coaches are always going to ask for favors like not playing Friday nights or wanting to switch up their brackets. And tournament directors go along to get more teams and make more money. But our boys (remember them?) love big competitive tournaments, with some upset chances. We all win. |
|
|
|
goyard
217 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 18:18:37
|
| HAT's OFF TO YOU TONY! |
|
|
|
brownie1
17 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 23:12:27
|
| Prior to last year Triple Crown did not have the Gold/Silver format and you know what? People still complained! The complaint then was that the AAA teams - or low Major - that seeded lower ended up playing the higher seeded Major teams & they were eliminated in 1 game. People complained that it wasn't fair & they didn't get to play more games. Without going to some type of ranking system - I think TC put the the Gold/Silver split in place to try to even up the bracket play games & give more teams the chance to play more games. Which is what we all want anyway. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 23:35:27
|
| I say we go back to a straight double elimination format like the good ole days. Everyone has the same chance to win. No pool match-ups. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
