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SMASH
253 Posts |
 Posted - 12/29/2009 : 22:55:38
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mfraley,
Re-read my posts, no where did I mention the Stars. I also would never attempt to make an educated stab at classifying teams. That job is for USSSA. I did, however, go to USSSA'S website where I carefully looked over the re-classifications for the 2010 season. I then past on some of those facts on this forum.quote:
Originally posted by mfraley
Guys, it amaze me how the Stars are included in this conversation.
First of all, we are a new team and we have not been classified by anyone yet. Our players represent 8 different teams from last year. Yes, we have kids from 8 teams(longhorns, jaguars, Oregon park, Tigers, Smryna, Kennesaw, Eliminators and Bulldogs)and we only have 11 players(do the math). We are like a big mutt.
So as you can see we are one of the new kids on the block.
We do not have a clue to who we are yet.
So stinger and warrior, there just is not enough data on this team to make and educated statement in terms of classification.
But the good news is the season is almost here and we look forward to competing on the diamond.
Mareio
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mfraley
22 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 10:06:09
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Stinger we only have 3 from the longhorns.
Warrior my bad.
mareio |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 11:03:00
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I agree with Warrior that Stinger's post was very good. A few corrections:
The Jackets Gold are the Major team (not based upon last Springs performance, but based upon the Coaches wishes and apparently the USSSA State office's opinion that I happen to agree with).
The White team is yet to be classified. If White has 6 or more North GA Storm players from last years Storm, White will be classed Major at least initially. I think the number of returning players used to be 4 and it was upped to 6 because I had 4 in my mind too. I'll ask for clarification at the upcoming USSA rules meeting
Only the Scorpions played enough USSSA for their power ranking to be sound. Hopefully, this year these EC teams will play more USSSA so we can all get a read on how strong they are. The Slugfest, Super NIT, and States are 3 tourneys that any team that wants to play the area's top teams should not miss.
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 12:03:21
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| As an X assistant coach last year at ECB in the 11U when we had the coaches meeting in the begining of the season it was said it did not matter what level you played at as long as you entered in tournaments you felt you had the chance to play in the championship game. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 12:04:02
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"Numbers dont lie", but they dont tell the whole truth either.
I am anxious to see how accurate USSSA is at classifying teams. Some one make a copy of the listing and save it for the end of the season. I just am not one to believe in numbers and stats over how kids grow, how hard they work, how teams gel and how good coaching effects a team. USSSA takes none of this into consideration. |
Edited by - Rocky on 12/30/2009 20:31:35 |
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longhorn1
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 16:13:16
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| The weather was a big factor with my Horns from last season. We had I think two U-trip events rained out and one more that did not make. Here comes my plug...we (STARS)are hosting USSSA Major State this year 11's & 13's at EC. June 14 - 20. A great way to get your grove on brfore your end of year tourney. Good post Mr. Moser. Glad to see Fred at Major. That was our only loss or (losses?) to a team not in class last year. Whatever it was they had our number no matter what the association was! |
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TravelFan
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 16:23:38
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Baseballpapa said it best. USSSA's evaluation/analysis of a team means only so much!! Many teams do better in different sanctioned events. A lot of which has to do with the format and pitching rules. Some coaches take full advantage of the pitching rules. Meaning they throw a player as often as the law allows to help them win. Other coaches have a rotation they stick to that's not based on the rules for that given weekend.
In reality the only teams that are affected by USSSA classification are Major teams. They're the only one's with true limitations. And even if you're a Major team that's reclassified to AAA midway through the season, they still can play Major events. We're all guilty of giving USSSA too much credibility. I think their quality web site and great accessibility to game data is the main reason.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 23:31:30
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The only way the USSSA data would be 100 percent correct is if all the teams played every week in USSSA. Truth is that the Bandits only play approximately 20% of the time in USSSA. So does this mean that the Bandits are the #1 power ranked team in the nation or does it mean that we are the #1 ranked team according to the USSSA power rating 20% of the time or #1 every 5 weeks or so. Either way it doesn't matter at all but it is definitely something that we all look at a lot and we consider it a honor just to get on the board at USSSA.
Gosh almighty, what did I just say. If you figure it out call me and let me know. Better yet, lets put moser on this puzzle and he will give us the exact numbers.
This ranking system is the best out there at this point and they have to put a lot of effort in what they are doing to even come up with the rankings so I say thank you USSSA for your website. |
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Baseball
111 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 09:38:33
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2009 USSSA major power Rankings by age group:
9U
1 East Cobb Braves
2 Sandtown Angels
3 Elite Gamers Red
4 Team ECB
5 East Cobb Stars
10U
1 Bandits
2 Sandtown
3 Kennesaw
4 643 Cougars
5 Holly Springs
11U
1 East Cobb Longhorns
2 East Cobb Stars
3 Southern Jags
4 Stixx
5 Elite Gamers Red
12U
1 East Cobb Shamrocks
2 Home Plate Chilidogs
3 Hardcore Baseball
4 East Cobb Longhorns
5 East Cobb Astros
13U
1 East Cobb Astros
2 PC Vipers
3 5 Tool Nationals
4 Bulldog Baseball
5 East Cobb Combat
14U
1 East Cobb Astros
2 East Cobb Titans
3 Sandy Plains Wildcats
4 Mill Creek Hawks
5 East Cobb Braves
The 10U East Cobb Scorpions were the ONLY team to play enough USSSA major events to form credible results. Will East Cobb 11U teams answer the bell?
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Edited by - Baseball on 12/31/2009 09:42:11 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 11:25:05
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I think that the biggest point to be made here is that you do not have to ranked by USSSA to answer the bell. Just because you do not play a USSSA event does not mean you are not answering the bell. The East Cobb teams we play have never dodged anything and we see them all week in and week out and if they were dodging they would certainly dodge the Bandits but they don't. USSSA is just a piece of the pie not the whole pie and once some of these other organizations come up with a similiar type ranking system then their pie might taste better than USSSA.
And just because you are not ranked major by USSSA does not mean that you are not a elite major travel baseball team. I could rattle off the names of at least 5 great teams that play very little USSSA events and I know that they are major.
All USSSA is doing is hosting an event and inputting the results of every event into some sort of a database. I would dare say similiar to the BCS system in college football. They take into consideration the class team you are playing, your won/loss record and strength of schedule and apply a formula and Abra Ka Dabra you have a ranking. It is not worth the paper it is written on but I for one can't wait to read it. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 18:41:32
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11U
1 East Cobb Longhorns
2 East Cobb Stars
3 Southern Jags
4 Stixx
5 Elite Gamers Red
I have a hard time believing the Longhorns at 11U last year were better than the Southern Jaguars?
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 16:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
11U
1 East Cobb Longhorns
2 East Cobb Stars
3 Southern Jags
4 Stixx
5 Elite Gamers Red
I have a hard time believing the Longhorns at 11U last year were better than the Southern Jaguars?
Heard they played them 4 times last year and won all 4. Handed them a bagel in the Atlanta Super NIT |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 07:48:55
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| I guess you are correct head to head they were better, How did the Longhorns do head to head against the ECB Stars? Do you know how many times these two teams played? I guess it's all about matchups. Either way all three of these teams were darn good. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 11:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
I guess you are correct head to head they were better, How did the Longhorns do head to head against the ECB Stars? Do you know how many times these two teams played? I guess it's all about matchups. Either way all three of these teams were darn good.
Also, how many of these games were pool games vs bracket games? To me that makes a big difference. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 12:37:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
I guess you are correct head to head they were better, How did the Longhorns do head to head against the ECB Stars? Do you know how many times these two teams played? I guess it's all about matchups. Either way all three of these teams were darn good.
Doesn't matter anymore Astros is made up of Stars, Longhorns and other teams. The Longhorns coach is now the Astros coach and the Longhorns are a completely different team now with mix from Titans and 45's. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 08:34:46
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quote:
Originally posted by itsaboutbb
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
I guess you are correct head to head they were better, How did the Longhorns do head to head against the ECB Stars? Do you know how many times these two teams played? I guess it's all about matchups. Either way all three of these teams were darn good.
Doesn't matter anymore Astros is made up of Stars, Longhorns and other teams. The Longhorns coach is now the Astros coach and the Longhorns are a completely different team now with mix from Titans and 45's.
And I thought our 11U teams were moving around! |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 11:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by stinger
[quote]Originally posted by Rocky
Rocky - with all due respect, USSSA uses actual results of games to determine which teams are the Major and they limit this to about 14-15 teams per age group. Based on the results of last season, only the Colts meet this definition. This classification to start the season should be about right.
USSSA Major teams for 11u -
1. Bandits
2. Sandtown
3. Jags
4. Cougars
5. HS Express
6. Grip (now defunct)
7. Stixx (is this team playing in 2010?)
8. N. GA Cougars (1 game)
9. Chili-Lawson
10. NYO
11. Jackets - White
12. Colts
13. PT All-Stars (2 games)
14. Midway
15. Chain
Last year:
- Stars were 1-7 against Major teams
- Titans were 1-3 as they played mostly against AAA or AA teams until late in the season
- Astros were 3-5 against Major teams (and 1-3 against AAA teams) and went 0-4 in the State Championship.
That's a combined record of 5-15 against Major competition. If there are only 15 true Major teams, then there are about 5 spots up for grabs from the list above in my opinion. But the ECB teams will have to have improved a lot to back up your guarantee.
And there are also other teams that will also be working there way into this space: GA Jackets Gold, Team GA, GA Select, Elite-Red, Line Drive, S Spring-Black, Mill Creek, Collins Hill. These teams have as much of a claim to this as the ECB teams you mentioned above.
Looks like the
ECB Colts
ECB Titans
are already there and I imagine Stars and Astros will be
there soon as well. |
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GBH
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 15:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocky
Trying to help baseballpappa out with a new discussion that might get the people talking. Before I begin I stole this off the 12U discussion. Should ECB allow 11U teams that aren't playing major division?
Does ECB have choice? It's not like they have a certain base-line of talent that they allow to play at ECB. They'll take your money as well as any other park.
I've seen several 11U players that would be only so-so rec ball players within the ranks @ ECB. They pay their money. they play at ECB.
At 12U, and up, ECB ups the talent requirement for the ECB Astros but again, there are usually several teams in each age division at ECB and these teams don't have a certain talent pool that they readily draw from. Like every other park they have players tryout and form teams. Whether they play Major or Triple AAA tournaments is really up to the coach's perspective on how the team will match up with each respective class.
I would say the 11U team's I've seen at ECB this year (it's early) may not have a bona fide "Major" Team within their ranks.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 19:33:18
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| Sorry GBH, I have to disagree with you that 11U EC may not have a Major team. "Major", as defined by USSSA this season (as it seems to me) is top 15 in the State. I see the EC Titans and Colts in that group. Now if you were to say Elite, then I'd agree with you...for now. |
Edited by - bmoser on 01/06/2010 20:27:38 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 22:48:57
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| Major and Elite are just words. My outlook on the Georgia teams is that most of the time there is very little difference. I have seen so many close games and when some of these teams learn how to win the really tight game then they will go from Major to Elite in a hurry because many of them already have the talent. Talent alone won't get it done, you must learn to play the game. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 14:48:38
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| Bmoser is right. If you mean Elite then the bandits are the only elite team around. If you can play up in a major 12U tournament and hold your own you are elite. If you can win tournaments that all the good teams are in over and over you are elite. Driving to South Georgia and winning a tournament when everyone else is playing in one at East Cobb doesn't mean you are elite. Most every high AAA and Major team last year won some type of tournament, but who won the big ones. This is a new year and soon, last year will have no bearing on where teams are this year. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 08:37:53
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Rocky hit the ole nail on the head when he said that last year will get you nothing this year. I can promise you that the Bandits will not sit still and read last years newspapers. You have to continue to work hard, stay focused, and practice long. This formula has and will always continue to win games.
It has been brought up that the extra 4' will make a difference. Duh""". You better believe it will make a difference. Each year they get a year older, a year stronger, a year faster, the light comes on in what has been a marginal player, professional instructors has tuned up the engine of a stud with a problem. The goal of any team is to get better and it appears that many teams have put a lot of effort into getting better.
This will be a great year for our kids and you guys know how much I love my Bandits but the best thing that could happen to the Bandits right now is for all of your teams to get better and if you have gotten better the Bandits probably helped give you a reason to get better. You being better will push us harder and should make us better in the long run and remember that we are in it for the long run.
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GBH
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 16:28:56
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| Well to rank any team in the State's top 15 (save the Bandits)in pre-season (I mean who sees every team in GA?) is similar to D1 College Football or even College basketball for that matter. It rarley holds up throught out the season. There are too many intangables btw now and the EOY. The mound being back and the bases longer will certainly be some of the more evident things that will come into play. |
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