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Rocky
290 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2009 : 11:08:25
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| If not why? I like the way USSSA does it, and I think it would be more fun to see something like this for every sanctioning body. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 15:31:10
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| Very nice question. Anybody got an answer for this one. I think the ranking system for Triple Crown might consist of a hat and a blindfold so that your name can be drawn from the hat. |
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HAWKS8
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2009 : 09:22:49
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| That is a great question. I wish there was a un-partial ranking system that could be used. Some of us do not like to play USSSA and play a majority of thournaments with Nations, GS, TC, etc... it appears to me the one everyone checks is how you are ranked via USSSA. Some of the good teams that go under the radar happen to be the ones not playing USSSA so they do not get the recognition as others that go to those tournaments. That along with the fact are the best teams really on the USSSA standings? I know last year I had beat teams that were at the top of the USSSA AAA rankings and I was ranked lower due to not playing as many tournaments as they did. Since I do not look at these numbers very often, it is not a huge issue, but I do hear how the teams everyone talks about tend to be the top of the USSSA list. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2009 : 22:31:02
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Hawks8: I agree with you that there should be a better way of ranking teams. We tend to play just enough USSSA events to keep our ranking near the top. The Bandits focus more on the power ranking than the points ranking as you would have to play so many events to keep your point ranking high. Some teams play exclusively USSSA and they should have more points than others such as us that only play a few events.
I think that we will see more and more organizations begin to develop a ranking system. I would like to see someone develop a ranking system that crosses organization lines as to me this would be a better way of being fair to all of the teams out there. |
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stanlewis
545 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 10:10:18
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I am working on one. More details as it progresses.
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TravelFan
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 17:11:47
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Triple Crown Sports doesn't have a ranking system as of this past baseball season. Don't know if they plan to implement one in 2010. I like the idea of true "random" seeding/scheduling for tournaments. And for the most part, I think Tony V. and Co. have done well to insure integrity with their events. Some of us don't want to admit it, but the quirky pairings you see from time to time are more a result of coaches "requests/belly-aching" than poor scheduling on TCS part.
True "random" pairings in pool play is so much better than using a point system to determine who plays who. I don't like events that presume which two to four teams are best before the first pitch. In theory, that's unfair bias from the beginning. Why not give the "weakest team" the easiest road to the overall Top Seed? The T.D. doesn't think they can win the event anyway!!! Even with the help he/she prefers to extend to the more competitive teams.
To me TCS gets it right! Show up and play whomever you're assigned. No saving arms! It kills me to hear the complaints from "Team #3" of having to face "Team #1" in pool play. "We got a bad draw!" Really you got the best draw possible for your club. If you can't beat them in a semi-intense environment with all your arms available, you can't beat them in a win or go home situation with your Ace having only 2innings!!!!
A ranking system is truly effective in a format where teams play equal # of games, against like opponents. If not you're making a determination with incomple/inconsistant information!! We should do away with the point systems and pool play!! Double-elimination should be the primary format used. If you run into Top Dog in your opening pairing, fight your way out of that losers bracket and seek revenge in the championship. ! If you're the second best team in the tournament the first loss should be your only!! NO EXCUSES |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 09:26:35
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TravelFan: The rankings that I was speaking of are the point and power ranking of USSSA. I don't know if these rankings are used in local or state tournaments but have been told that the Elite 32 is seeded by these rankings and paired accordingly. Problem with this is that you could be the #1 seed and end up playing one of the better teams from California that doesn't play much USSSA and therefore has few points. In this case USSSA ranking does not work well at all.
I 100% agree that rankings should make no difference in pairing in any tournament. I think common sense in arranging the brackets in a way that should be as fair as possible to all teams is the best way of setting up brackets or pools for a tournament.
A lot of folks on this forum think Triple Crown Sports pitching rules are much too strict but Papa thinks that everyone should adopt these pitching rules as they make the Coaches think the game instead of just playing the game.
Tony does a great job and we play with him every chance we get and my comment of drawing out a hat was a little bit of a joke. To me the hat thing is a pretty good idea. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 15:06:25
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| Baseball Papa loves the idea of double elimination. Can someone tell me why we don't see a lot more double elimination than we do. If it the 3 to 4 game guarantee then go to 1-2 pool games and then bracket for double elimination. Help me out on this one as I could get into this double elimination thing. |
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TravelFan
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 16:46:37
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Yeah Tony's the MAN!!! Other than the USTBA officials, and of course Mr. Lewis, the only TD's with no ties to teams that participate in their events, or tied to batting facilities or park/city program. Almost forgot about my man Bobby Smalls, up your way Papa, with Southern Baseball!! Nice guy! Great integrity with these T.D.'s!
As for the rankings, my memory tells me it's the point system that's used for pool placement in National events (Super NIT'S, etc...). Think it's supposed to be used in all USSSA events, but most directors enforce this at their leisure or convenience. I'm all for the old skool hat draw. Like I said in last post if you're the 2nd best team in tourney and draw the #1 team first round, that should be your only loss. Tough draws are part of strong events.
TCS pitching rules gives quality teams the opportunity to set up a rotation so to speak. I'm with on this Papa! All Elite level teams have 5-6 pitchers they feel comfortable throwing against most anyone. You shouldn't need a single pitcher for more than one game unless he's used primarily in relief. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 09:02:11
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If I were a Tournament Director, the team who paid me first would get the easiest pool draw, and the one who paid me last would get the toughest. I'd have teams paying me a year in advance for tourney's :)
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 08:35:15
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Why no answers on the double elimination format. To me the double elimination format gives everyone an equal chance and allows teams to still compete even after that one bad game we all seem to have on occassion. Double elimination got booted to the curb in my opinion strictly based on a financial equation. You could still promise 3 games and just have less pool games prior to going to double elimination.
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 11:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Why no answers on the double elimination format. To me the double elimination format gives everyone an equal chance and allows teams to still compete even after that one bad game we all seem to have on occassion. Double elimination got booted to the curb in my opinion strictly based on a financial equation. You could still promise 3 games and just have less pool games prior to going to double elimination.
Papa, I think that this is matter of cost (umpire fees) and field availability. You need to have almost twice as many fields to get all of the games in before Sunday night. Even at the Elite 32 tournaments they play double until the final 4 and then single. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 19:15:07
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I knew I could count of my Bandit13 guy to come through for Papa.
Thanks Bandits13. I love you name.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 08:19:45
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I'll never forget losing our first bracket game and falling into the losers bracket, then fighting our way all the back into the finals in a double elim formatted tourney in 8U up PaPa's way. I recall it rained hard and we had a female ump. Lost in the finals, but wow did the boys learn a lot about themselves in playing 4 games Sunday to get there.
I wish I had kept tourney names, places, teams, scores, brackets from the very beginning so I could look back. Anyway, great format indeed. |
Edited by - bmoser on 01/05/2010 08:56:57 |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 08:48:04
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| I like the double elimination format also, even if it means playing the best team your first game. I still think there could be some form of seeding based on previous matchups and then one "warmup" game that means very little. That would guarantee 3 games. |
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