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justin case
57 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2009 : 07:55:07
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| newarkeagles what happen to the jackets in outlaws game in pool play? |
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Scott0923
49 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 09:02:03
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| I'm hearing a lot of buzz in conversations with coaches about Cartersville Rookies. I've read other posts about them and coaches seem to be impressed by them. Any details on their position players, pitchers, hitters? |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 11:17:06
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Papa-how many or your Bandit players play other sports? They all seem like they could 'stand out" in any sport they chose to play. Swimming, football, soccer, wrestling, football, lacrose, bmx, track, karate, golf, tennis, bowling.
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NewarkEagles
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 14:28:54
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justin case - If I remember correctly the Outlaws jumped out to a good lead. Momentum seemed to be turning for the Jackets but the Outlaws held on or 5-4 victory. Overall, a very good baseball game between the two teams.
Pappa - I was thinking maybe 4 inning pool play games with run rule limits 15 after 3, 20 after 2, etc. I'd be curious to see the average # of innings completed in pool play games in various 11u tournaments over the past year. That would give a good baseline perhaps.
What I love about baseball at the 11 and 12u age groups is that the kids are finally ready to play the game the way it is played in high school, college, or the pros. Their knowledge of the game, ability to react at game speed, and the fact that their bodies are finally listening to what their minds have been trying to tell them to do is a lot of fun. In the past, especially in their coach pitch years the game was played a different way and you had to employ different strategies as a coach to make and keep the team competitive. (I remember those Dizzy Dean battles between Boynton and Hobgood. Bunt until the other team can do something about it, etc.) There were a lot of things we did back then that we wouldn't or don't need to do anymore.
As the kids get better at their craft and more mature and experienced in the close games they're able to mitigate the gamesmanship and the clock become less of a factor. The mentality becomes more along the lines of the acronym from Team TABU in California (Try And Beat Us). For the Jackets in that game perhaps it was a mindset of, "So you need an extra inning? That's okay. It won't help you. We love playing baseball!" |
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Baseball
111 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 14:41:00
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Interesting. I would think 643C pitching and hitting would have to be adequate in order for them to get to the championship in Cooperstown consisting of an 88 team field.
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser[/i]
Baseball:
IMHO...the power pitching and hitting of the Bandits, Sandtown, EC Titans, and Team GA will be too much for the Cougars to handle. Finesse will win out from time-to-time, but all 4 of these teams have so many players who can can go yard on 225' fields, and throw 60+ with accuracy, that it takes a perfect game to overcome all that firepower. 6-4-3C is one of only 2 capable of playing a perfect defensive game, but for now: Bandits, Sandtown, EC Titans, Team GA. 1 or 2 more will likely join this group, but it will be due to roster moves between now and Spring.
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 16:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball
Interesting. I would think 643C pitching and hitting would have to be adequate in order for them to get to the championship in Cooperstown consisting of an 88 team field.
I got to watch parts of most all of 643's bracket games at Cooperstown and I also saw a good number of their games in GA. They don't have any players who stand out in any particular area in my opinion. Every player on the team is a very good athlete. They are very well coached, very disciplined and know the game very well. I think they did so well at Cooperstown because they are so fundamentally sound in all areas. Plus, being late in their season, they had learned how to play very well as a team. Many of their wins in bracket play at Cooperstown were very close games, a couple they won in the last innings or at bats. They knew how to win those ball games and did.
I believe they will definitely be one of the top teams in GA by season's end if not sooner. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 16:35:09
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Baseball:
That was last year. I was projecting next year. The teams I named are, or have gotten, bigger and stronger than last years 6-4-3. These other teams have more offensive firepower unless the Cougars have beefed up. I'm assuming they have the same roster returning.
I went to the Elite 24 in Disney, so have seen most of the best teams. I also saw Mizuno Glory overpower our Bandits at the Super NIT. 2 big bats, 2 big arms, and strong defense wasn't enough for the Bandits. However, with 4 big bats, and 4 big arms, the Bandits avenged their earlier loss.
The bar has already been set...strong defense, 4 big arms, 4 big bats, major caliber catcher, strong coaching.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 16:51:22
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You all know that Papa does not predict but if I did I would never leave 643 out of the top tier teams. Baseball has proven over the years especially youth baseball that although power pitching and power hitting is nice to have it is not enough to win games. At 11 years old you have to be prepared to do the little things well to win and 643 does the little things as good as any team we have ever played. 643 always and I said always forces you beat them and for the majority will never give away the game.
There is not one of you out there except maybe Moser that has enough information and stats available to begin to make this type decision. Bandits are good I can promise you that but they are no better than Sandtown, 643, Titans, Team Georgia, Georgia Select, Scorpions, Jackets, Stars, Chili Dogs and 10 others that I have left out without meaning too. I have given you the advice and you should listen and that is if you really want to win then preparation is the key.
I agree with Baseball and if you could have seen the teams that 643 beat at Cooperstown you wouldn't leave them off or rate them low on any list that you are making.
I have posted for a long time and if you read my posts you will see how accurate that I am. What makes Georgia unique is the number of really good teams that are out there and as long as we continue to have this type competition then our teams should keep getting better. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 16:58:19
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Rocky: One of the requirements for being a Bandit is that you have to be a playing machine. It does not matter what they are playing and they play anything and everything that requires constant movement anyway.
Many do play other sports with the top picks being football, basketball, and soccer most likely in that order. Some would make great wrestlers and one of our Shortstops qualified for state in wrestling last year. Our other Shortstop and third baseman are trying out golf and the rumor is that we might lose them to the PGA tour. They want to go on the Mini "Hooters" Tour. Wouldn't that be cute.
I think it is a huge advantage that my Bandits can multi-task in several sports as each sports works another part of their bodies and minds. |
Edited by - baseballpapa on 11/12/2009 22:19:17 |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 18:37:17
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Bandit13:
I'm asking you to be more specific..."one of the top teams" doesn't get it for me. I'm looking for top 3, or top 5. Please provide us your top 3 as I have done. I stuck my neck out there, now its your turn. |
Edited by - bmoser on 11/12/2009 22:19:46 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 22:45:46
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Since moser called Bandit13 out, Papa is going against his better judgement and picking the top 3. Bandits, Sandtown, 643 Cougars.
Not disrespecting any of the other teams as I have to say that this was a hard thing to attempt to do and I go as much with my baseball instinct as moser does with his scouting reports and stats.
I will also say that anyone could completely miss this but I feel the teams listed above have more experience in the fire and almost always find a way to win the tight games and that gave them the edge for me. But this does not mean that I don't know that there at least 8-10 more teams that can beat you anytime out. |
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Scott0923
49 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 09:17:43
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Does anyone have more details on the Cartersville Rookies 11U teams I've seen other coaches talking about?
How's their hitting?
Defensively?
Pitching?
You guys that played them, what level do you see them ABLE to compete at?
thanks!
Scott |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 09:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Bandit13:
I'm asking you to be more specific..."one of the top teams" doesn't get it for me. I'm looking for top 3, or top 5. Please provide us your top 3 as I have done. I stuck my neck out there, now its your turn.
Dang Bmoser, you are holding my feet to the fire. I haven't seen ECB Titans, ECB Scorpions or Holly Springs play yet as you have so it's difficult for me to predict with much confidence. All I can do is base my prediction on what I know about these teams from last year and what I've heard about their new aquisitions.
Here's my top 5 prediction for 11u Major in 2010
#1 - Bandits
#2 - Sandtown
#3 - Team GA
#4 - ECB Titans (a reliable source says they will be very good)
#5 - Holly Springs
Honorable mentions with the potential to upset any of the top 5 would include:
643-Cougars, 643-Jaguars, GA Jackets, GA Select Red, PT Chilidogs, Elite Gamers, Cartersville Rookies, Mill Creek Red, Collins Hill
I believe that #3-5 will be very competitive with each other but #1 & 2 will be clearly a step above the others - for now. This may change as the season progresses.
I'm sure there is a sleeper that I've forgotten or overlooked but there you have it - consider my neck stuck out !! |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 09:52:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott0923
Does anyone have more details on the Cartersville Rookies 11U teams I've seen other coaches talking about?
How's their hitting?
Defensively?
Pitching?
You guys that played them, what level do you see them ABLE to compete at?
thanks!
Scott
I saw them once. They are very good. Hitting, pitching and defense were all above average for a Major team. If they play AAA, they will dominate the class. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 10:50:45
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I think baseballpapa is on the right track I will add team ga as well.
Bandits, Sandtown, 643 Cougars, Team Georgia,
Scorpions Titans Astros Stars Jags all in the fight but not at this level yet. |
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:11:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott0923
Does anyone have more details on the Cartersville Rookies 11U teams I've seen other coaches talking about?
How's their hitting?
Defensively?
Pitching?
You guys that played them, what level do you see them ABLE to compete at?
thanks!
Scott
My son's team was able to beat the Rookies at the Dobb's Creek Summer Sizzler in a come from behind win. It was a game all about defense with very few if any errors. The Rookies provided the two long monster home runs early to take the lead and we were just lucky enough to have a few clutch hits to win. They were extremely tough. Defensively very sound and strong pitching. The next time they went to Dobbs Creek they won. They are not a team to be taken lightly even for major teams. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:13:51
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atta boy Bandit13. Now we can go down in flames together if we're proven wrong. if we're right, we can brag for the entire off season between 11u and 12U. Plus, now the rest can publicly ridicule us, even though they have not come out on the record. I think we should get a re-do just before the Spring Frost to compensate for roster changes.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:27:44
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Scott0923:
Cartersville Rookies are Little Leaguers, so we wont be seeing them much, if at all, until late Summer when their LL tourney wraps up. I dont even think they all play for the same team in their regular season but are more of an all star team, which makes them even more impressive. I'd say they're a low to mid-Major team. They do everything well, but hitting, psychological toughness, and Coaching are their strongest attributes. Only weakness is base running since they play closed bases in LL. They have a tough time scoring on passed balls, but they were picking it up fast.
What I find intriguing is that they say they are the 3rd best LL team, so how good are #1 and #2? I'd bet that the #1 LL team would make our top 5.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 08:27:43
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Papa has always said that you will never know where you stand until you jump into the fire. Playing AA and AAA is much different than playing major week in and week out. Have the Rookies beat Sandtown, Have they beat the Bandits, Have they beat 643, Holly Springs, Team Georgia, or better yet who have they beaten. Moser should have some stats.
Contrary to popular belief LL can play some travel ball if they choose. If they choose to get better I would think that playing travel ball when they could will end up being a huge benefit for them. Bandits for one would love to give them a game.
Are you saying they are the 3rd best LL team in Cartersville or 3rd place team in Georgia. Did they come in 3rd place in the State tournament or is this just your ranking. |
Edited by - baseballpapa on 11/14/2009 09:53:14 |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 12:05:16
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PaPa,
After Cartersville came in 2nd at the 1st tourney I saw them at, I spoke to some of their parents/coaches. They were not boastful at all. They said they are the 3rd best Little League "program" (not team) in Georgia. I sensed they didn't know very much at all about anything other than Little League. They were a collection of all-stars from their Rec league teams. They said Warner Robins program has the most kids to draw from, and are nearly unbeatable by any other Little League programs State Wide. They said Columbus is #2, but not always. Cartersville beats Columbus some years and at some age groups.
All 3 times I saw them was at GA Force tourneys held at Dobbs Creek Park and Cumming City Park. I have no idea why they chose to play only those events, likely due to Football. They won 2, and came in 2nd to Collins Hill who beat them in the bottom of the 6th w/ 2 outs in a dramatic come from behind effort. One of the best Fall games I saw in both skill and excitement. Both teams played error free ball, and the emotion that flowed thru that park at the end was special.
These 3 tourneys had 8-12 teams each, and while I cant tell you exactly who they beat head-on-head, here are the teams who competed in those tourneys at the AAA level(that's what they called it, but none were usssa events): SS Blue(w/ 3 Midway Dirty Dawgs), Parkview, Dobbs Creek Warriors (w/ 2 Bandits), Collins Hill (Fall squad), Duluth (lots of fill-ins from all over), NG Red (w/ 3SS-Silvers), Jackets (mix of Blue/Gold), Slobberknockers (GA Select Red&Blue mix), GA Select Blue. I'd say these teams (and any other I've forgotten) ranged from low AAA to low Major in skill level.
I think Cartersville went 13-2 overall. They looked bad once, losing to Slobberknockers or Duluth in a Saturday pool game due to football conflicts, but the next day when the footballers returned, they walked the dog.
I'd love to see them play more tourneys. I REALLY wish the "nearly unbeatable" Warner Robbins teams would surface. Titan1 says their 10U's are special. I'd love to see them play the EC Braves.
Cartersville is capable of beating any 11U team in Georgia, except maybe 2. They have no trouble hitting Elite 11U pitching, or curve balls. Nice folks too. No bush league tactics, nastiness, or yelling came from this group. Just encouragement.
tidbits from my 11U special collection of little-known facts...
Warner Robbins beat Cartersville 23-2 at Little League States!
The only team to beat the Cartersville Rookies this Fall on a Sunday, was missing 4 of their best players.
This Fall, one 11U baseball park could boast having a top 10 golfer, a top 10 swimmer, and the top track & field sprinter in the State of Georgia (3 different boys). Baseball is their 2nd sport.
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Edited by - bmoser on 11/14/2009 19:06:04 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 23:07:34
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| Is it true Moser that one of the big disadvantages of playing LL is that the younger ages only have a District type tournament and no State Level tournament is available. I wonder what the purpose of this could be as it seems to me that the more they played and the better teams they played should only make their teams more competitive. I know you are aware that the Bandits looked into the Little League thing but with so many restrictions could not make it work. I wonder how many of of the LL teams have to stretch the rules to be eligible to play. |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 00:06:11
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| Warner Robins is very good. Alot of their kids already play travel ball on various teams. Some of these teams play 12U now. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 16:07:43
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PaPa,
LL...I'm still learning about LL, so cannot answer your question about younger age groups accessibility to Statewide competition.
I think its possible that LL teams could be "stretching the rules" to compete outside LL. LL groups multiple age boys together, (9-12) so 11's have regular interaction with 12's, for instance.
If you're so inclined, Fall non-sanctioned events make sense. Or, pop up at a USSSA sub-state after not playing 1 usssa event all year...and don't play close to home where you might be recognized.
If you want to see the strangest USSSA roster history ever, check out 2009's GA 10U AA State champs...oh, and pardon the really fuzzy team photo... Now you know why I have become so USSSA roster rule savvy.
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KoopsDad
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 10:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
They said they are the 3rd best Little League "program" (not team) in Georgia.
tidbits from my 11U special collection of little-known facts...
Warner Robbins beat Cartersville 23-2 at Little League States!
LL...I'm still learning about LL, so cannot answer your question about younger age groups accessibility to Statewide competition.
BMoser and PaPa,
Have been watching the posts surrounding Little League and since not that many on here are involved, I thought I would clarify a little bit as my son plays Little League as well as travel (Team Ga) and I have been involved in coaching various ages (from 7-16) within the Little League program in my town now for 8 years.
Little leagues baseball sadly is losing ground in most areas for various reasons. Most all of the districts around the state of Georgia have reported reduced numbers in their programs year after year and even some towns dropping their programs all together. The opportunity of travel baseball is certainly a big part of that but there are many other reasons. That being said, since Little League is not the only opportunity for these kids, the level of play is not what it could be. We do still enjoy playing however because it gives us games through the week, my son enjoys playing against his friends, and there is just something different about that "home town" all star experience.
IMHO, most all star teams would be equivalent to AA or AAA teams with the exception being an occasional state winner. My town usually produces one of the states better little league teams year after year (almost always win district and goes to state) but there is no way we could compete at the major level. I have taken our all star team in the past after the season was over and competed in the fall. We found some success in AA but very little in AAA. MOST of the all star teams will have 4-5 very solid players and 1-2 quality pitchers. The rest of the lineup and pitchers would be considered average for the given age. As you know, this is very different from what major level travel teams consist of. Warner Robbins and Columbus definitely still have lots of kids in their programs and I think the success they have had nationally has kept the kids coming back. Their teams are usually the exception with regards to the makeup of the team although they too are not as solid top to bottom as a quality major team.
I agree with the statement that Cartersville may have the 3rd best program in the state behind Warner Robbins and Columbus. I think that since Warner Robbins is the new Southern Regional HQ of Little League baseball and with the complex that Little League is building there as a result, I think they have solidified themselves as # 1.
As far as state level for the younger ages, the 7-8 all star teams (for those programs that offer them)have only district tournaments. A state tournament is offered for all ages starting at 9-10. There is an "invitational" offered for the state winners of 9-10 but it is not the regional like that of the 11-12 on the road to the world series. There is also a 10-11 all star team and the 11-12 that we all know about. The real question each year is whether the best 10 yr olds (now the 11s that we are all so concerned about) are playing on the 9-10 team or the 10-11 team. The 10-11 team used to be "leftovers" from those kids that did not make the 9-10 or 11-12 teams but that has changed. I know in our district this year, all the better 10 year olds played up to the 10-11 team to play better competition. Most of the 9-10 teams I saw were either mostly all 9s or 9s with the leftover 10s.
As far as this past year is concerned, Columbus won 9-10 state (beating Warner Robbins). Cartersville went 3-1 in pool play losing to Columbus 18-1, and then lost again in the championship round to Warner Robbins 23-6. Cartersville did not have a team in the 10-11 state tournament we participated in. I was told that Rockmart beat them in the district tournament but did not confirm that. I find it hard to believe because Rockmart was one of the weaker teams winning only one game in pool play. If Cartersville had a 10-11 team, it must not have been very strong. Elbert Co. won the 10-11 tournament beating the usual powerhouse teams Warner Robbins and Columbus teams along the way. WR was not impressive. This Elbert Co. team had played previously as a AAA team going 5-9 in their last 4 USSSA tournaments. Columbus looked more like a strong AAA team. Point is that the makeup of most of these teams top to bottom is such that they just cannot compete at the major level.
Columbus definitely had their best players at the 10-11 age group and trust me when I say that they will be the team to beat next year at the 11-12 tournament. They had the better team at the 10-11 tourney but could not hit Elbert's #1 pitcher (who is also a Team Ga pitcher) well enough to win. As far as the 23-2 score mentioned, I think you are referring to the 22-2 beating that Warner Robbins put on Cartersville in the first round of 11-12 state pool play. |
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justin case
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 08:38:35
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I feel that baseball and bmoser are extremely off, out of the four teams you say have four great hitters and four great pitchers, you can only arrive at the bandits.
Where is this titans stuff coming from, they do not have four pitchers throwing in the 60s, the red sox do not have four pitchers throwing in the 60s. I do not know about team ga, but I have not seen their four pitchers that throw like the bandit kids.
And in regards to hitting the titans do not have alot of power hitters.
I think the red sox have a few more than the titans and team ga may be very close with the bandits in hitting.
Baseball and bmoser I am trying to figure you guys out.
Baseball, I think you are setting some high goals for your team. |
Edited by - justin case on 11/21/2009 10:06:59 |
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