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loganmill
144 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2011 : 23:55:46
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We played in a Championship game tonight that was
a very intense game. My team was playing defense
with a runner on third, umpire calls a balk on my 3rd
baseman, due to receiving a throwdown from my
catcher while one foot was inbounds and the other foot
Out of bounds and Umpire awards the runner at third
home plate costing us a run.
Has anyone ever heard of this or were we just a victim
of ( home team umpires ).
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Edited by - loganmill on 11/13/2011 23:56:42 |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 08:49:31
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| I've seen a balk called on a third baseman when he stood in foul territory on a pick-off attempt from a pitcher. That is a black and white rule. But, I've never heard of what you described. I find it hard to believe it's an actual rule. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 09:01:51
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What should have been called depends on the position of the 3rd baseman at the time of the pitch. If he had any part of his body touching foul territory at the time of delivery, then it is an illegal pitch. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk. Without runners on base, it is a ball. So, if the 3b was straddling the bag, with one foot in foul territory at the time of the pitch (not throwdown), then the rare, but proper call was made (assuming NFHS rules).
NFHS rules: 1-1-4 "At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground.
PENALTY: Illegal pitch (2-18-1)"
2-18-1 states "An illegal pitch is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with no runner on base, which results in a ball being awarded the batter. When an illegal pitch occurs with a runner, or runners, on base, it is ruled a balk." |
Edited by - in_the_know on 11/14/2011 09:18:22 |
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JMO
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 09:34:42
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Loganmill
I would call that play "home umpiring" or better yet "bush league".
Anyways congrats to both teams. |
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nbcfyoy
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 11:57:44
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Out of my many years of coaching, this is only the second time I've heard of this.
The first time, my group received a warning. I verified that it is a rule as "in the know" stated. It obviously depends on the umpire and If he actually knows that rule. |
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smoothrat
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 15:30:30
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| I was at this game and the balk was actually called on the “illegal pitch” not the throw down. This is a rule as “In-The–Know” stated so eloquently. However, most umpires will give a warning before calling this balk but….it is a rule. IMHO no "home umpiring" or "bush league Umpiring” was involved. I think both teams played well and I’m sure these two teams will see each other again in the spring. |
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CJM
15 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:06:14
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| 1 foot in fair territory = wrong call here. |
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:26:58
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
What should have been called depends on the position of the 3rd baseman at the time of the pitch. If he had any part of his body touching foul territory at the time of delivery, then it is an illegal pitch. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk. Without runners on base, it is a ball. So, if the 3b was straddling the bag, with one foot in foul territory at the time of the pitch (not throwdown), then the rare, but proper call was made (assuming NFHS rules).
NFHS rules: 1-1-4 "At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground.
PENALTY: Illegal pitch (2-18-1)"
2-18-1 states "An illegal pitch is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with no runner on base, which results in a ball being awarded the batter. When an illegal pitch occurs with a runner, or runners, on base, it is ruled a balk."
I thought loganmill said one foot was in fair ground? If so why the balk or am I reading the rule wrong "A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground"?? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:33:12
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I actually contradicted myself in my post. I meant to type that both of his feet had to be in foul territory (as the rule states that if any part of his body is in fair territory, he is considered to be in fair territory). So if he was straddling the bag with one foot in fair territory, a call should not have been made. It must have been in the umpire's opinion that the 3b was standing in foul territory. Like all the other posters, I've never seen the balk called, but have seen warning issued for this in the past.
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
What should have been called depends on the position of the 3rd baseman at the time of the pitch. If he had any part of his body touching foul territory at the time of delivery, then it is an illegal pitch. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk. Without runners on base, it is a ball. So, if the 3b was straddling the bag, with one foot in foul territory at the time of the pitch (not throwdown), then the rare, but proper call was made (assuming NFHS rules).
NFHS rules: 1-1-4 "At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground.
PENALTY: Illegal pitch (2-18-1)"
2-18-1 states "An illegal pitch is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with no runner on base, which results in a ball being awarded the batter. When an illegal pitch occurs with a runner, or runners, on base, it is ruled a balk."
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 17:46:59
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anyone else smell a rat or maybe someone pulling a smooth one here ;>) I would trust Loganmill, one of the coaches of the teams playing, would have heard an explanation from the umpire and relayed it to the board thus his question/topic
quote:
Originally posted by smoothrat
I was at this game and the balk was actually called on the “illegal pitch” not the throw down. This is a rule as “In-The–Know” stated so eloquently. However, most umpires will give a warning before calling this balk but….it is a rule. IMHO no "home umpiring" or "bush league Umpiring” was involved. I think both teams played well and I’m sure these two teams will see each other again in the spring.
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loganmill
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 17:54:07
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Yes he had 1 foot in and 1 out.
Thanks for the info. I spoke with several
umpires today and all said it was the
WRONG call. |
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big tuna
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 18:31:56
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| Both feet were not in foul territory. This was the wrong call. If you have to beg for a call like this to help you win, you are in lots of trouble. |
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JMO
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 18:37:12
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| I would consider it "home umpiring and bush league" when this balk is called. As well when the plate umpire was calling the oregan park kids by nicknames. Overall though a tough fought game by both teams. |
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Sharks07
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 19:06:56
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| Actually, the play in question was NOT a throw from the catcher to the 3rd baseman, it was the third baseman trying to hold the bag on the pitch straddling the bag with one foot in foul territory. The coach of the Phillies even asked the umpire "how is my player supposed to hold the bag?" to which he was answered "with one foot in front of the bag, and one foot behind it." Once the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand, of course it is legal for the fielder to step in foul territory. The scenerio described in this post is as absurd as awarding second base to a runner on first if an errant throw from the pitcher got by the 1st baseman causing him to have to step in foul territory to retrieve it. Unfortunately for the young man, the play of the 3rd baseman truely was a balk. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 19:57:41
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| One foot can be in foul territory......Don't know why these rules are so **** confusing from people who are PAID to know them....the officiating we have to deal with ridiculous |
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smoothrat
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 20:25:02
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Nice play on words eastcobbkreskin...what’s interesting is there is no mention of the controveral call his team received, by the same field umpire that made the balk call, of catcher’s interference that essentially gave him back the run from the balk call….Gotta love the Baseball Gods.
Regardless of what you think in this situation… it’s a big stretch to accuse the umpires of cheating. Having watch the entire game there were basically two calls that could be deemed “controversial” and each team was on the receiving end of it. Sad that whenever you don’t win it’s because someone was cheating or you got a bad call...
quote:
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Originally posted by eastcobbkreskin
anyone else smell a rat or maybe someone pulling a smooth one here ;>) I would trust Loganmill, one of the coaches of the teams playing, would have heard an explanation from the umpire and relayed it to the board thus his question/topic
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Edited by - smoothrat on 11/14/2011 21:23:24 |
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big tuna
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 20:25:03
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| what a horrible call. home cooking at its best..... |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 21:19:07
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If all the witnesses (posting here) are correct, and the player had at least one foot in fair territory, then by rule, the umpire blew the call. So that would be that.
Separate from the incident as described, if a player has both feet in foul territory, then the call would be correct in that it's an illegal pitch. As I mentioned earlier, the one time I saw this occur, a warning was issued. Umpire didn't have to issue a warning, and really, the opposing coach had a valid argument that the pitch should be called illegal, but chose not to argue the point.
Sounds like the ump blew this one, but a good learning experience for everyone else if you have it called for or against you, now you know... |
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zdch20
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 21:38:25
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Hey Folks - I am the head coach of the Sharks. I am definitely not one to comment on these boards, but I felt given the contents of this particular message board I had to address the issues directly.
Look, let's not take away from a hard fought game that BOTH teams played. I think it is a bit ridiculous to say this is "home cooking umpiring" considering the two field umpires are not OP umpires, and the umpire behind the plate was wearing a National Umpires Association hat (which is the ECB association that Jim Stros runs). Let's also not forget that this is the same umpire that called a catcher's interference from the 'C' slot out in the field which I ended up being ejected for unfortunately. So, let's all agree that this umpire tried to be bigger than the game and cost both teams a run for each offense evening all of that out.
By saying this was home field cooking really irritates me - not to mention the home plate umpire is from ECB. You (the Phillies) are a really good team... But, with all of this talk you are taking away from MY BOYS and I don't appreciate that!
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loganmill
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 22:07:22
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My intentions here was to try to find out the correct call.
Not to bash anyone or any team. Both teams played
very hard to try to win a championship game.
Hats off to the winning team. They are a great group
of boys.
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 22:31:10
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| Great game to both the Sharks and Phillies! Sounds like the makings of a good rivalry. All together now: Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya, Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya, O Lord, kumbaya |
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kcndfan
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 23:41:43
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Gotta love the hot stove talk!
The only part that bothers me is the home cooking part. I have been at OP for 8 years and never met either field umpire until their first game on Friday night. I had never met the man behind the plate before Sunday night 10 minutes prior to the game. This umpire group was hired by the 10U Tournament Director and I had only met 1 of the 8 umpires who worked this tournament prior to the tournament. To say that it was home cooking is unfounded unless you are just saying because it was at our park somehow umpires are going to corrupt themselves to give us a call. Not a fair statement to the men who do take their jobs very seriously and give us their best effort in every game.
Here is the bottom line.It was a great game, the umpire blew a call for both teams that led to a run for both teams and I was proud of both teams for playing one of the best games I have seen in a very long time. I would much rather talk about the pitchers for both teams that were just lights out. The defense behind both of them was spectacular and it was a great ending to a great weekend.
We will be playing the Forsyth Slugfest and the Super NIT as our first 2 tournaments of the 2012 season. Hopefully we get to play the Phillies in both Championship games and keep the rivalry rolling! The Phillie's and Sharks left it all on the field after a very long day and gave all of us a reminder of why we love the game of baseball. |
Edited by - kcndfan on 11/15/2011 08:21:36 |
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stingfree
49 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 11:51:23
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| That kind of call is umpire tring to show he know all the rules, If I was the coach of this game I would be upset also because to make a call like this to end a game takes all the fun out of it and put it in the hands of a umpire.sad sad sad |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 22:42:28
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quote:
Originally posted by stingfree
That kind of call is umpire tring to show he know all the rules, If I was the coach of this game I would be upset also because to make a call like this to end a game takes all the fun out of it and put it in the hands of a umpire.sad sad sad
Just another example of the quality umpiring we have to look forward too!! |
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kcndfan
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2011 : 13:24:57
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quote:
Originally posted by stingfree
That kind of call is umpire tring to show he know all the rules, If I was the coach of this game I would be upset also because to make a call like this to end a game takes all the fun out of it and put it in the hands of a umpire.sad sad sad
It didn't end the game, I believe it was either the 1st or 2nd run of the game and occurred very early in the game. However, I don't disagree with your comment about the umpire showing off. He pretty much did that the entire game. He did blow one major call for both teams benefit so at least he blew it for both.
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Catch3dad
90 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2011 : 14:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by kcndfan
quote:
Originally posted by stingfree
That kind of call is umpire tring to show he know all the rules, If I was the coach of this game I would be upset also because to make a call like this to end a game takes all the fun out of it and put it in the hands of a umpire.sad sad sad
It didn't end the game, I believe it was either the 1st or 2nd run of the game and occurred very early in the game. However, I don't disagree with your comment about the umpire showing off. He pretty much did that the entire game. He did blow one major call for both teams benefit so at least he blew it for both.
What did the other umpire say or do regarding the call?
Wonder what Chris has to say about the call?
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