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biggin
174 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2011 : 06:23:43
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| The ? Still remains do what.there is no way a td is gonna do anything about it. This is gonna have to be done higher up. Or maybe the teams in ? Finaly says wow this aint worth it lol. |
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 08:03:41
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| Well if in fact that team has been using "Jucied" bats, I suspect all the upcoming tourney's will be looking for them. I suspect teams will be looking for those bats only get used in certain situations, and there will be a protest at some point. I will say this. If in fact Utrip and TC do nothing about this and it is found that a team has done this. I would ask every person on this board to contact everyone they know and do everything possible to get the news media involved and make the managment of these sactioning bodies step up and take ownership of thier responsibility to keep these players safe. I think the saction orgs would ban any coach involved for life. IF not the people of this board can make that happpen simply by voting with thier money. ( refuse to join the tourney until the coaches/team are gone). |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 08:19:24
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Anyone hear how the kid from the Simpsonville Stars is doing?
Sure hope the rumors aren't true because the families over there are good folks, but crazy that two kids pitching (Fla Rays & Simpsonville Stars) take hard shots to the head playing same team. Crazy bad luck - definitely don't wany any child to get hurt. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 08:52:43
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| My son took a line drive to his shin to end one inning, then a line drive to his chest to start the next inning. He got both out and stuck around for 3 total innings on the mound, so he was fine, but it was a little scary. Not implying anything about illegal bats, by the way, but I've just never seen that happen before to a pitcher. Told my son I can never tell him he's not tough after that experience. |
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ecbbraves
113 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 09:48:59
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The Simpsonville player ended up with many stitches above and below his eye. Thankfully no broken bones. He will recover fully and hopefully still have the desire to play again.
As for the bat situation so that all of the rumors about how it was handled will disappear...
The game was stopped and Bubba Smith was called. According to procedure, the on site USSSA representative- an ECB Astros coach- was able to examine the bat to determine if it had any signs of tampering. There were no apparent signs but it was agreed by both teams that the bat could be taken out of the game and it was. ECB nor any other complex in GA that I know of has the equipment to test these bats so that was not an option.
I personally saw a select few kids from other teams using the same model bat in the tournament and balls were flying off of them in the same manner. It's a small barrel drop 10 bat that is probably designed for a lesser caliber of player than the elite level kids that participated in this event. Not illegal though so there is little any TD can do until the rules change.
Chris Ottinger |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 09:54:59
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quote:
Originally posted by prestont
Anyone hear how the kid from the Simpsonville Stars is doing?
Sure hope the rumors aren't true because the families over there are good folks, but crazy that two kids pitching (Fla Rays & Simpsonville Stars) take hard shots to the head playing same team. Crazy bad luck - definitely don't wany any child to get hurt.
The head coach said he had to get stitches where he was opened up, but there was no structural damage. One of the parents said the injury would cause them to miss some games, hopefully they will be able to find a pickup.
About barrel compression testing, at the ASA or USSSA men's finals in Disney any ball that clears the fence or goes up the middle(Umpire and TD discretion) the bat used is subject to testing. There is a tester on site and last year there was a tester at every field, bats are checked INSTANTLY!! Composite bats break in at different rates and it is totally possible for a completely stock "unaltered" bat to fail a compression test. If this happens the bat is sent off to an off-site testing facility, if the bat was altered you are banned for 5 years if it wasn't it is deemed illegal and you can't use it anymore(no penalty). If is a very simple process, unfortunately it is a process we will never see in youth baseball until one of these boys is killed, or has a life-altering injury.
What concerns me the most is when a little boy is lying on the ground bleeding and the first thing that occurs is coaches start fighting. Also something that occurs weekly in mens softball occurs, you see all the coaches from the team in question pull ALL THE BATS out of the bag and a musical chairs of bats occurs, then there is a ton of confusion and who can tell which bat it was?? Another tell-tale sign IMO is when a boy who has already taken a pitch in a count with a big barrel aluminum bat is stopped by a coach, called over and handed another bat, a skinny barrel composite!! Bats are hotter today than they have ever been and WILL EVER BE AGAIN!! |
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spectator
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 11:07:22
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My son and I were part of the unfortunate group to see the ball hit that kid from Simpsonville. On the Simpsonville side of the stands, the dads were outraged, the moms were crying, and I overhead a couple little siblings say they were "scared". The reaction of the other coaches while a player was bleeding and being pulled off the field was a also a little disturbing. This was truly an unfortunate experience for everyone involved. I commend Mike and Chris on the way they difused the situation and were able to restore order.
Like everyone on this board, I hope that the rumors are not true. But if they are, I hope the coaches and parents of the team in question didn't get much sleep this past weekend, and had time to rethink what they are all about.
I did think it was odd how the bat was passed from kid to kid, and did witness a kid from another team asking to borrow the bat earlier in the tournament while that team in questions was not playing.
I do have a few questions:
1. How many HRs were hit by this team after the questionable bat was taken out of play?
2. Are there new bat rules going into place next year that will help level the playing field and improve the safety for the players?
3. Regardless of the rules, are there any initiatives or commitments from TD's to actually enforce the rules? And if so, how? |
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jpatrick
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2011 : 11:31:29
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| I think there should be a way to test the bats onsite, until then there will allways be teams that claim the other team was using illegal bats to beat them. As for the bat in question as soon as that incident happened the umpire took the bat and set it to the side. When the pitcher got hit all the coaches were to him before the batter made it to first, the arguing started when the fans came onto the field. |
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bball-fan
89 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 07:59:51
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Tired of... People finding something (anything) to complain about. Too many games in one day, too little games for the money, playing early games, playing middle of the afternoon, pitching regulations too tight, no pitching regulations, this field's too big, that field's too small, this umpire's strike zone is the size of Georgia, that one's zone is too small.
Sheesh. Let's just be happy that we get to watch our kids play baseball. Life's too short.
/end rant...
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 08:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by bball-fan
Tired of... People finding something (anything) to complain about. Too many games in one day, too little games for the money, playing early games, playing middle of the afternoon, pitching regulations too tight, no pitching regulations, this field's too big, that field's too small, this umpire's strike zone is the size of Georgia, that one's zone is too small.
Sheesh. Let's just be happy that we get to watch our kids play baseball. Life's too short.
/end rant...
Here here! I seriously do this. Anytime my team is struggling and I'm frustrated, I ask myself would I rather be doing anything else in the world other than hanging out with my son and his friends playing baseball. It always works. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 10:19:38
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I said it in another post and I will say it again...There is no way major teams should be allowed to use drop 10's at 11U. There should be a sliding drop off in bats each year to get to a drop 3 at 14U. Composite bats are only half of the issue but the drops are just as important as they significantly impact bat speed.
For example. We ran an 11U and 9U event a month ago and a 9U kid was tossed out for using a drop 12 (he likely didn't know the rule). My question is why should an 9U kid have to swing (a drop 10) the same bat as a post puberty 11U player? Come on...These sanctioning bodies allow anything (drop 10's in 13's) but all of sudden at 14 - which is high school they have to go to a drop 3.
I saw the drop 10 trampoline bats all weekend at 11U ECB and I was very surprised - and these were used by many of the better players. I never paid attention to other teams bats until what happened to the Simpsonville kid and I had to look at bats. I just assumed everyone thought the same way and wanted the kids to get to a drop 3 ASAP so they can compete when it starts to count. Again, none of this is illegal but U-Trip and Triple Crown need to step up or you can expect more of the same at 12's. |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 12:02:14
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| I'm tired of people on here complaining about others complaining. This topic is titled "Tired of". Let them get some things off their chest and enough with the criticising just because you disagree. Better to do it here than out there SSBuckeye and bball-fan. Anyone that has ever been to an athletic sporting event has a story or complaint if you will of a bad call or experience, so get over yourselves as if you never once have questioned a call or disagreed with something and (complained) spoke of it later. It's opinions and whether you agree with them or not, it's what makes us all diverse. Would you rather us all be robotic and think and feel the same about everything no matter if it's right or wrong. Complaints or opinions, call it what you want are part of life and people are going to have them. I personally am just glad I live in a country that gives me the freedom to voice my opinion. Unfortunately, there's also going to be someone there utilizing the first amendment to criticise me for it too. Bottom line, IMO this topic was intended for us to state what we're tired of and that can be anything all across the board so while I can respect and appreciate bball-fans and others post, I think criticising what others are tired of is more abusive to the intentions of the topic. I understand that this may be what you're tired of but please don't misconstrue the point I'm making here because I think it should be very clear to any half intelligent individual. |
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BballNut
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 13:45:57
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| ecball, I think the problem would be how do you standardize it? Is it based purely on age or is there an assumption that due to age, kids are bigger and therefore should use heavier bats? For example, we have kids on our team that range in height from 4'6" to 5'4" with varying weights. So, can you uniformly say that all 11Us must use drop 8's or lower? The only way I could see it being implemented fairly is if it was done like football jamborees where players are measured and weighed at the beginning of the season to determine what is acceptable. If the sanctioning bodies don't do anything about it, I think you and other coaches must educate the parents before the season begins and bats are bought. A lot of it is purely not being baseball savvy. We bought a new bat mid-season because our son "earned" it. It happens to be a drop 8, but he made that call, not us as parents. His previous bat was a drop 10. We had no idea before reading this issue here that drop 10s could be potentially dangerous at this age and size. Maybe we should have known, but we didn't. |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 14:56:27
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quote:
Originally posted by ecball
I said it in another post and I will say it again...There is no way major teams should be allowed to use drop 10's at 11U. There should be a sliding drop off in bats each year to get to a drop 3 at 14U. Composite bats are only half of the issue but the drops are just as important as they significantly impact bat speed.
For example. We ran an 11U and 9U event a month ago and a 9U kid was tossed out for using a drop 12 (he likely didn't know the rule). My question is why should an 9U kid have to swing (a drop 10) the same bat as a post puberty 11U player? Come on...These sanctioning bodies allow anything (drop 10's in 13's) but all of sudden at 14 - which is high school they have to go to a drop 3.
I saw the drop 10 trampoline bats all weekend at 11U ECB and I was very surprised - and these were used by many of the better players. I never paid attention to other teams bats until what happened to the Simpsonville kid and I had to look at bats. I just assumed everyone thought the same way and wanted the kids to get to a drop 3 ASAP so they can compete when it starts to count. Again, none of this is illegal but U-Trip and Triple Crown need to step up or you can expect more of the same at 12's.
coach,
Going to a drop 8 bat isn't going to make that big a difference, assuming the bat length is 30" that's only a 2 oz difference. In terms of bat speed, that might translate to 5 mph slower if that but you are using a bat with more mass so the net result is negligable if any. At age 13U they should make the boys transition to a drop 5 so the change at 14U is not as drastic.
As someone mentioned, kids grow and hit pueberty at different times in their life. Some at 14 don't hit pueberty so they are at a disadvantage, those that hit it earlier have a leg up. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 15:05:55
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I believe the best way to standardize it is by using these weights in majors or open tournaments. AA or AAA should be able to swing drop 10's at this age as many of those kids are younger or smaller. Size is one thing, but I've seen some strong small kids that have no problem swinging a drop 8. The standardization should be done by classification....Size can't play a factor just like it doesn't in high school. They don't say to the small 9th grader it's o.k. for you to use a drop 5....It's drop 3 or you can't bat. The irony that I saw at the BOS was that many of the bigger, older kids were swinging the drop 10's and the younger, smaller kids were in drop 8's and 9's. I have thrown about 10,000+ BP pitches and if you don't think this is a huge factor, take the drop 10 trampoline bats away or the drop 10 loaded bats and put them in a regular composite drop 8 and the ball won't come back at you nearly as fast - which is what this topic should be about - pitcher safety. I got drilled in the temple on a come backer in middle school and was in the hospital for 3 days so I know what that kid was going through. I probably would have died if it was hit today because the bats are all hot to some extent.
A two once difference is a 10% heavier bat thus 10% slower through the zone. The bat speed difference is not negated by a heavier bat -it's a factor but not a one equals one...10% more bat speed is a HUGE difference when you talk about come backers. I saw several good hitters this weekend that would struggle to catch up to a good fastball if they had to use drop 8's. Drop 8's also make it more difficult for a kid to hit it on the screws because it's heavy and they have to start it quicker. I paid attention to who was swinging what when I was looking at them because it does matter. It would be like going up to the big fields and judging one kid hitting with wood and one with metal - it's not exactly the same but you get the idea. It's not an apples to apples comparison when they aren't hitting with similar bats. If lower weighted bats don't help kids, then everyone would be in drop 8's right now. Why else would you have your son swing a drop 10 if there wasn't any difference?
I'm also not saying it has to be drop 8's (although that would be my vote) but at least get them into drop 9's and start moving in the right direction if possible. What's the downside? People are constantly talking about wood bat tourney's. It's not just about the bounce from the composite vs. wood, as the biggest impact is that wood bats are 25 or 26 onces so the bat speed is significantly less. I believe we should level the playing field for all kids and not let parents or coaches make these decisions. Standardizing types of bats is a start (next year) but drops are just as important if not more. |
Edited by - ecball on 06/06/2011 16:21:22 |
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bball-fan
89 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 18:23:41
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quote:
Originally posted by m72
I'm tired of people on here complaining about others complaining. This topic is titled "Tired of". Let them get some things off their chest and enough with the criticising just because you disagree. Better to do it here than out there SSBuckeye and bball-fan. Anyone that has ever been to an athletic sporting event has a story or complaint if you will of a bad call or experience, so get over yourselves as if you never once have questioned a call or disagreed with something and (complained) spoke of it later. It's opinions and whether you agree with them or not, it's what makes us all diverse. Would you rather us all be robotic and think and feel the same about everything no matter if it's right or wrong. Complaints or opinions, call it what you want are part of life and people are going to have them. I personally am just glad I live in a country that gives me the freedom to voice my opinion. Unfortunately, there's also going to be someone there utilizing the first amendment to criticise me for it too. Bottom line, IMO this topic was intended for us to state what we're tired of and that can be anything all across the board so while I can respect and appreciate bball-fans and others post, I think criticising what others are tired of is more abusive to the intentions of the topic. I understand that this may be what you're tired of but please don't misconstrue the point I'm making here because I think it should be very clear to any half intelligent individual.
Wow, kind of a venomous reply. I was simpy stating what I'm tired of, exactly what the topic is for. It wasn't directed at the posts on this thread, (or even on this forum, really) just in general, including in what you hear in person. Have I ever complained about something at a game? Yes, everyone has. Sometimes, that's kind of fun, rehashing the "problems".
It just seems as though more and more people are never happy about how anything is going. Unless their pool game is at 10:30 am with perfectly manicured fields, MLB quality umpires and Gatorade at 39 degrees, people will complain. |
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m72
49 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2011 : 22:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by bball-fan
quote:
Originally posted by m72
I'm tired of people on here complaining about others complaining. This topic is titled "Tired of". Let them get some things off their chest and enough with the criticising just because you disagree. Better to do it here than out there SSBuckeye and bball-fan. Anyone that has ever been to an athletic sporting event has a story or complaint if you will of a bad call or experience, so get over yourselves as if you never once have questioned a call or disagreed with something and (complained) spoke of it later. It's opinions and whether you agree with them or not, it's what makes us all diverse. Would you rather us all be robotic and think and feel the same about everything no matter if it's right or wrong. Complaints or opinions, call it what you want are part of life and people are going to have them. I personally am just glad I live in a country that gives me the freedom to voice my opinion. Unfortunately, there's also going to be someone there utilizing the first amendment to criticise me for it too. Bottom line, IMO this topic was intended for us to state what we're tired of and that can be anything all across the board so while I can respect and appreciate bball-fans and others post, I think criticising what others are tired of is more abusive to the intentions of the topic. I understand that this may be what you're tired of but please don't misconstrue the point I'm making here because I think it should be very clear to any half intelligent individual.
Wow, kind of a venomous reply. I was simpy stating what I'm tired of, exactly what the topic is for. It wasn't directed at the posts on this thread, (or even on this forum, really) just in general, including in what you hear in person. Have I ever complained about something at a game? Yes, everyone has. Sometimes, that's kind of fun, rehashing the "problems".
It just seems as though more and more people are never happy about how anything is going. Unless their pool game is at 10:30 am with perfectly manicured fields, MLB quality umpires and Gatorade at 39 degrees, people will complain.
Sorry it can out so venomous bball-fan. But it kills me to see how many people are so critical over the opinions of others on here. I've been critical of some things myself but I'd like to think it wasn't about an opinion someone had, except yours . As I stated before, I know you were just giving your opinion and I respect that but I read your opinion to be a complaint about others complaining which can across to me as hypocritical. Especially, when you have probably complained about the same things they were complaining about. I've complained about the same stuff too. So at the end of the day we've all complained about something. Just no there's no hard feelings on my part and sorry for lashing out over your opinion. I'm kind of superstitious so I'll use the word complain once more to make 7 times in this posting and maybe something lucky will happen. Take care and play ball. |
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jpatrick
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2011 : 15:53:07
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| I have to disagree with Mike to an extent, If you are going set rules on bat drops it has to be by age level not classification. Also I said in an earlier post that wasnt allowed what about the kids in the llws will be swinging drop 12 at 12 and 13 years old. I have seen over the past 15 years many comebackers hurt pitchers and 3rd baseman it is nothing that just started happening, but I agree if we can save 1 kid from getting injured from a hit ball it is worth it. It just has to be even accross the board for everybody in that age group. Even with the new HS regulations on bats, I seen some shots this year in High School that could have been ugly so I think they need to take all of the parameters into account when trying to regulate certain bats. |
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2011 : 23:38:34
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I hear that the national usssa rep will be at the state tournament this week and could bring the equipment to properly test bats. I have my cash ready for a few protest if the need arises.
All kidding aside I think this issue will get addressed in august . |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 12:23:49
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Moccs, how did you know, it was suppose to be a secret...
quote:
Originally posted by moccs
I hear that the national usssa rep will be at the state tournament this week and could bring the equipment to properly test bats. I have my cash ready for a few protest if the need arises.
All kidding aside I think this issue will get addressed in august .
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 21:34:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
Moccs, how did you know, it was suppose to be a secret...
quote:
Originally posted by moccs
I hear that the national usssa rep will be at the state tournament this week and could bring the equipment to properly test bats. I have my cash ready for a few protest if the need arises.
All kidding aside I think this issue will get addressed in august .
Sorry my bad! |
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