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BravesFan
533 Posts |
 Posted - 09/22/2010 : 11:33:22
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Banker,
Thanks for you post and I hope you don't really think we all take this that seriously. Most of this is just fans and parents thumping their chest like Alabama and Georgia fans would in football. At the end of the day, I hope most of these parents realize that their child will not play pro ball and if fact, most that I've spoken to only want their son to play for the HS team and anything after that is just gravy.
All of us should know that at this age it's about fun and development, heck I bet half these kids won't be playing by age 13 since they'll be out chasing girls! I think the thing that drives most people crazy is the rumor and stuff that gets said but stan does a great job of not letting it get out of hand.
So please know, when we predict who will win and who will make it to a tournament championship, it's all in good fun because we enjoy watching these young men play and hope they do their best. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 12:31:17
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| Well stated, bankerheel! Couldn't agree more. You need to post more! |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 14:06:02
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| There will always be differrent opinions on this subject, but we have enjoyed our experiences with out of town teams. First, being from a small town the talent pool and choice of coaches locally is very limited. Second, there seems to be less favoritism because most coaches and families dont have a relationship beyond the team(certainly not the case in a small town). We simply get to have fun at the ball games and when its over we go home. Some people are fortunate enough to have found the same opportunity close to home. We do pay for a few lessons locally to make up for some of the missed practices and it also still allows days when I can enjoy simply throwing in the yard with my boys. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 14:41:35
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| Nahh Banker you won't get blasted around here, and I think that your approach is fine...People have different opinions, we do play 70+ games and as long as we are making that kind of time and money investment we do want to play on a competitive team that plays the best talent around. Now you obviously made it a lot further than I did playing sports but I still believe the better pitching/teams my nephew plays the better baseball player he will become. Doing this for the past 4 years has helped him meet a TON of new friends and all he does is think baseball, if we get home from a tourney its either MLB the Show 2010 on Playstation or he is turning a Braves game on. I love to see how much he loves the game and I know he isn't the only kid around like that. That being said "who cares about winning a national championship"??? We do!! and not neccessarily a nat'l championship because there really isn't a true national championship (NYBC, Coooperstown, Elite 32, and many others) that attracts every dominant team around. Right or wrong that is what our family and many other families like to do and like to pursue. We haven't even played for one yet, and maybe we will never make it to one of these tourneys but if that isn't the goal at the beginning of the year I don't even see the point in classifying major.....Either way the thing that I wish everybody can see is you can have it both ways, you CAN have an elite major team that stays together and becomes a family, one that wins far more games than they lose especially at this age. Also, jmo but the older the boys get the more they begin to understand how good the teams they are playing really are, and I think 11 year old boys love looking their opposing teams up and seeing how good they are as opposed to playing the same 12 teams in four or five venues every weekend. What ACC school did you play at?? I had some friends who played for Vandy and they always always tell me how strong that conference is at baseball, but I haven't been lucky enough to see many ACC games. |
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bankerheel
34 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 08:30:46
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Thanks for the posts. And I am certainly not here to pass judgement on anyone as far as what works for their family. If you are in a small town and want competitive baseball, you will have to travel, I get that.
Also if your son only plays baseball and loves it, I certainly don't see anything wrong with playing year round. Just make sure if he is a pitcher that he gets some downtime. I have seen all to often where a pitcher throws hard during the early spring season but by May/June his arm is dead, not to mention the stress it puts on it long term. My nephew I referenced in my earlier post is a freshman pitcher in college has had a torn labrum operated by Dr. James Andrews, so all of those years pitching in tournaments and showcases can take its toll if your not careful.
I'm very protective of my son's arm, since he pitches and plays 3B/RF. My advice is have pitchers develop location on the fastball to both corners of the plate. As well has ability to throw up at the letters, in addtion have them work on the grip and feel of throwing a changeup. My son is not allowed to even think about throwing a curve ball until he is 14 for a couple of reasons, 1. At this age, their mechanics and hand size don't truly allow for them to throw a curve/slurve the right way, thus making muscle memory harder to over come when they are older and stronger. 2. The obvious strain it puts on the forearm and elbow.
Once a pitcher can dominate FB/CH at this age, then they will be well positioned when they are older to develop a curve/slider that will put them ahead of most pitchers in throwing 3 quality pitches for strikes in any count. Remember, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION...
Great community to have baseball dialogue about. And to answer the question about where I played, you can surmise from my username :)
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sportsman
37 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 15:21:43
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Banker,
Your first post was one of the best I've read on this board - perspective! As for your last post, it's similar to what most parent's think that have already been through this with older boys. The parents that have yet to go through travel ball through high school take this stuff WAY too seriously. Most parents who have been through this don't allow their son to play year around baseball and take the necessary time off. In addition, they don't teach curveballs/footballs/sliders/cutters until they hit puberty. If you go to ECB, fall ball really doesn't start until 13 or 14. Very few teams play fall ball under 12U for a reason. |
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 16:44:11
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| Bankerheel, great posts! Leave it to a Tarheel to make such spot on comments. Similar to you, I played D-1 ball (middle relief) in the state of NC, my wife is alumnae of UNC and I even followed a career path similar to yours; including the MLB team (minus the banking). I appreciate your stance and philosophies on pitching at 14U and below. We should chat sometime, as we had some pretty solid games against UNC, during the days of Shuey and Leshnock(sp?). Not sure if you were there during that time. |
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bankerheel
34 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 19:02:34
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| As a freshman, I was Shuey's roommate on the road trips. I enjoyed answering the hotel phone from all the scouts and agents. I guess that's why he went #2 overall in the '92 draft to the Indians. That happens when you can throw 99 mph and have a nasty slider at 90 mph. Leshnock was the best catcher I ever threw to. I think he went in the 3rd round to the Yankees. Where dis you play in NC? |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 22:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sportsman
Banker,
Your first post was one of the best I've read on this board - perspective! As for your last post, it's similar to what most parent's think that have already been through this with older boys. The parents that have yet to go through travel ball through high school take this stuff WAY too seriously. Most parents who have been through this don't allow their son to play year around baseball and take the necessary time off. In addition, they don't teach curveballs/footballs/sliders/cutters until they hit puberty. If you go to ECB, fall ball really doesn't start until 13 or 14. Very few teams play fall ball under 12U for a reason.
Our team has played fall ball since we started travel @ 9U and I've seen so many negative comments regarding team who play fall ball, what is the issue with teams wanting to play fall tournaments? There are so many kids who don't play football so what are these kids suppose to do? Rec ball is like taking a step back and frustrating to watch. Granted, we take fall much less seriously as we only practice once a week and play 5 tournaments over 2.5 month time frame. Our pitchers might get 4 innings in a weekend so are we worried about arm fatigue?
Last time I checked, all 11U EC team will play at least one tournament this fall except for the Braves and Stars and even the Braves will practice on Sundays. So, that's 8 out of the 10 11U teams at EC. If a kid loves baseball and wants to play in the fall, why is that a bad thing? Everyone has choices and I made fall ball optional to our parents but all of them except the football players wanted to play and the feedback has been very positive.
Tae
11U East Cobb Longhorns |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 08:52:07
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Tae, I did not take his post to say that playing fall ball is a bad thing. I think the kernel of truth he highlighted is that too many people are taking what happens in 10u/11u ball too seriously. Nobody's career is locked in stone at that age. And the implication is that if you're not careful, you can destroy a kid's career before it really begins.
Personally, I love that more travel teams are forming so that kids who want to play higher level ball to develop their skill-set can do so, even if they are no better than a top end rec player. So long as that team's mission statement aligns with the talent on the team, I think it's a good thing. But, I also realize that the underlying reason we seem to have so many more travel teams pop up is not for the reason I just stated. Probably has more to do with mom and dad thinking their son is going straight to the show. Could be wrong. I know that just in my own area, we had numerous new teams appear this year, and knowing a little of the backstory on one of the teams, I can say that the reasons for that team existing are not exactly the most pure.
At the end of the day, I can only control my own team's experience. We didn't have a kid pitch more than 36 innings last year. I heard one local team had a kid who threw over 80 innings in the same amount of time that we played last spring. I have 10 kids who want to pitch this year, so they're all going to pitch. It will cost us games. I know it. My parents know it. But, nobody's arm will get abused, and we will uncover a pitcher at season's end and we will wonder where he came from. Last year, my number 6 pitcher going in ended up my number 1. You just never know. I see that as my role as a youth baseball coach. I actually get a huge amount of satisfaction from the process. It's why I enjoy it so much.
So, long-winded explanation aside, that's what I took from heel's post. Have balance and perspective and know that the biggest impact we coaches can have is a negative one if we take the wrong path. I actually think that most of the people on this board seem to have the proper perspective. We're just a little more passionate than most, which is why we troll this board so often!
Andy
Milton Nationals 11u |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 09:33:06
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| Heel, I once played in a game against a couple of not-so-bad Tarheels -- Scott Bankhead & B.J. Surhoff. They could play the game a little! |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 11:01:22
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Tae,
We do seven Sunday "clinic" style workouts working on fundamentals while letting the kids work at all positions. This allows them to stay sharp but not overworked. This also helps get the 3 new kids each year acclimated to their new teammates and coaches before the spring. Actually, only 3 of my kids play football but I highly recommend that they all shut their arms down for at least two months in the fall and then another two months over the holidays. The professionals shut it down for 3 months and most pro's (Glavine and Smoltz to name a few) recommend that young kids (under 12) shut it down for the fall season. I don't want my kids playing fall ball because of mental fatigue as much as physical fatigue but that's just my take. I want them fired up and ready to go for the season. If my kids did play year round, the question is when does one season end and another begin and can they keep up this pace for 7 more years, when it really matters???
We had a boy that played fall ball last year and by June 1st he "hit the wall" and looked tired of it all and he loves the game. June and July are when it really matters so I want them excited at that point in the season. Some boys are different and can play all year but not many can do this at the younger ages. Most young boys can only play so many games at a high level each year. Once they reach 13 or 14 they will focus on one or two sports so many will play fall ball but until then I recommend they play 3 sports (football, soccer, tennis, anything). Again, just an opinion as there isn't a right and wrong and kids and parents have to do what is best.
It's interesting that fall ball is being discussed under recruiting strategies because for years I've heard that some teams play fall ball to ride off the weaker kids and try to steal kids from the teams they are actually playing against. I've heard from several dads and coaches that this is going on again this year....
ECBraves |
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bankerheel
34 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 11:30:44
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SS Buckeye, couldn't agree with you more. And as I said in my earlier posts, I'm not opposed to fall ball, it certainly beats sitting at home in front of the TV or playstation if you son's don't play football. I just wanted to give my take on the pros and cons.
In addition, you all may have already seen this but if not I will post it again. You can see the passion around youth arms from Dr. James Andrews, and I would say its hard to argue with his experience and sample size. And yes, Surhoff and Bankhead were 2 of the best.
Here is the link to an article in the NY TIMES about protecting our youth arms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/magazine/09littleleague-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Also, here below is the position statement from ASMI about youth pitching. Dr. Andrews recommends at least 4 months a year off from thowing all together.
American Sports Medicine Institute Web site
Position Statement for Youth Baseball Pitchers
August 2009
With the rise in elbow and shoulder injuries in youth baseball pitchers, the adult community needs to take steps to prevent these injuries. Research points to overuse as the principle risk factor. Poor pitching mechanics also contribute to injury risk. Another suggested risk factor is poor physical fitness.
Throwing curveballs has been suggested as a risk factor, but the existing research does not support this concern. However, a youth pitcher may not have enough physical development, neuromuscular control, and proper coaching instruction to throw a curveball with good mechanics. Throwing curveballs too early may be counter-productive, leading to arm fatigue as well as limiting the youth's ability to master fastball mechanics.
Thus, the recommendations for preventing injuries in youth baseball pitchers are:
Watch and respond to signs of fatigue. If a youth pitcher complains of fatigue or looks fatigued, let him rest from pitching and other throwing.
No overhead throwing of any kind for at least 2-3 months per year (4 months is preferred). No competitive baseball pitching for at least 4 months per year.
Follow limits for pitch counts and days rest. (Example limits are shown in the table below.)
Avoid pitching on multiple teams with overlapping seasons.
Learn good throwing mechanics as soon as possible. The first steps should be to learn, in order: 1) basic throwing, 2) fastball pitching, 3) change-up pitching.
Avoid using radar guns.
A pitcher should not also be a catcher for his team. The pitcher-catcher combination results in many throws and may increase the risk of injury.
If a pitcher complains of pain in his elbow or shoulder, get an evaluation from a sports medicine physician.
Inspire youth pitchers to have fun playing baseball and other sports. Participation and enjoyment of various physical activities will increase the youth's athleticism and interest in sports.
Example limits for number of pitches thrown in games
Age (yrs)
2006 USA Baseball Guidelines
2010 Little League Baseball Regulations
Daily limits
17-18
n/a
105/day
15-16
n/a
95/day
13-14
75/game
11-12
75/game
85/day
9-10
50/game
75/day
7-8
n/a
50/day
Weekly limits
13-14
125/wk; 1000/season; 3000/yr
11-12
100/wk; 1000/season; 3000/yr
9-10 75/wk; 1000/season; 2000/yr
7-18
21-35 pitches --> 1 day rest;
36-50 pitches --> 2 days rest;
51-65 pitches --> 3 days rest
66- pitches --> 4 days rest
Hope this helps everyone keep things in perspective.
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ecbinsider
318 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 11:32:09
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Okay, this thread or topic got hijacked but since it's gone in this direction I'll give you my 2 cents. Several of you have asked are we taking this too seriously? Aren't we all taking it too seriously by playing travel baseball to begin with? To the average person, I bet they would say we're nuts. Look at it, parents spend anywhere from $1,000-$2500 per year just to be on a travel team not to mention the private lessons for pitching, hitting and speed and agility. Have you looked in your sons bat bag? Does he have 3 bats that cost more then $250 each??? I bet the average travel ball parent spends more then $3,500 in fees, travel, food and lodging to allow their son to play travel. Do we take this seriously?? You betcha we do whether you like it or not so let's not get on each other for taking this too seriously when all this money is being spent to keep lil Johnny up to speed with everyone else.
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 13:04:06
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quote:
Originally posted by bankerheel
As a freshman, I was Shuey's roommate on the road trips. I enjoyed answering the hotel phone from all the scouts and agents. I guess that's why he went #2 overall in the '92 draft to the Indians. That happens when you can throw 99 mph and have a nasty slider at 90 mph. Leshnock was the best catcher I ever threw to. I think he went in the 3rd round to the Yankees. Where dis you play in NC?
Hey bankerheel! I played at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. Grew up in the triangle area and played ball against Paul and Matt Shuey for a while. Matt ended up at UNCG for a bit. There are a few of us former Spartans in this area and coaching at EC. Shuey was flat out nasty and Lesh had to be one of the biggest catchers I ever saw. SSBuckeye, I grew up in Durham as a diehard UNC fan(still am to this day) and Bankhead, Surhoff, and Weiss were three of the best college players I ever saw, a little before my time. However, I bet it was awesome roaming the same diamond as that bunch! It is amazing what Coach Fox has done with that program since taking it over from Coach Roberts! Who would have thought a guy from little old North Carolina Wesleyan would take the Heels to national prominence in such a short period of time and on a consistent basis. He is a tremendous recruiter and person! |
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bankerheel
34 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 15:23:08
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ecbinsider:
My apologies for hijacking your current thread, not my intention. And I am familiar with "keeping up with the joneses" when it comes to cost for travel ball. Again, I'm not here to judge, but to offer my thoughts and experience when it comes to travel baseball and beyond having been there. And as I said in an earlier post, I'm very supportive of EC Baseball and will take my sons when they are 14u to tryout and play assuming they continue to progress with their talents.
At the end of the day, we all agree travel ball is a valuable experience, or we wouldn't be following this forum. Back to my original post, in my opinion, recruiting in order to win a championship just seemed ridiculous to me.
I just hope families that commit this kind of time and money don't push their sons in the future to "pay it back" in the form of college scholarships or professional contracts due to amount of expenses and time put in before high school.
Go watch any major showcases at EC and you will see what I mean.
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 16:07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Tae,
We do seven Sunday "clinic" style workouts working on fundamentals while letting the kids work at all positions. This allows them to stay sharp but not overworked. This also helps get the 3 new kids each year acclimated to their new teammates and coaches before the spring. Actually, only 3 of my kids play football but I highly recommend that they all shut their arms down for at least two months in the fall and then another two months over the holidays. The professionals shut it down for 3 months and most pro's (Glavine and Smoltz to name a few) recommend that young kids (under 12) shut it down for the fall season. I don't want my kids playing fall ball because of mental fatigue as much as physical fatigue but that's just my take. I want them fired up and ready to go for the season. If my kids did play year round, the question is when does one season end and another begin and can they keep up this pace for 7 more years, when it really matters???
We had a boy that played fall ball last year and by June 1st he "hit the wall" and looked tired of it all and he loves the game. June and July are when it really matters so I want them excited at that point in the season. Some boys are different and can play all year but not many can do this at the younger ages. Most young boys can only play so many games at a high level each year. Once they reach 13 or 14 they will focus on one or two sports so many will play fall ball but until then I recommend they play 3 sports (football, soccer, tennis, anything). Again, just an opinion as there isn't a right and wrong and kids and parents have to do what is best.
It's interesting that fall ball is being discussed under recruiting strategies because for years I've heard that some teams play fall ball to ride off the weaker kids and try to steal kids from the teams they are actually playing against. I've heard from several dads and coaches that this is going on again this year....
ECBraves
Mike,
Sorry to bring you guys into this discussion but I am in agreement with you, kids needing a break and that is why we usually end our season around the 4th of July and not start our fall ball until early sept. Now if we had no intentions of playing fall then we would playing longer into July so there really wouldn't be that break from spring to fall. Now we did play a tournament in late August but that was only because it was $75 and we entered it without practicing once.
All I'm saying is that fall ball is nothing like what we all experience in the spring, there isn't that 2 month "spring training" leading up to your first tournament. I bet we'll practice 7-8 times the entire fall, that's it. Our last tournament will be October 24th and we won't play another tournament until the spring frost so there is plenty of downtime there for the kids. At least until wrestling season kicks in the first of November :-)
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sgates
48 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 20:08:27
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Glavine said it best a few weeks ago and it validates my theory for not playing a fall schedule, he stated that playing hockey for 6 months out of the year growing up gave his arm a rest which was the major factor of him having a long career....thats my first reason, which is an addition to my second reason, less than 1% of the 120+ 11yo's at EC will make it to the bigs, which is why I stress to my players parents to PLEASE let your child go play other sports...Tennis, Basketball, Golf, Football, I dont care, just get them into something other than baseball so they are able to possibly find another sport that bests suites them, it may be baseball, it may be playing the piano, I dont know, but I would rather them try other sports now than to show up to tryouts in some sport as say a sophomore in High School and get embarrassed. But Tae, if it works for your team, keep it going, all of our teams makeup are different.
Gates |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 21:24:57
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I think that a break is absolutely neccessary...Mine is going to try basketball this year mainly for some help with being more athletic. I for one think that fall ball is a great thing, and we have been playing with Tae this fall and I have even said to myself a couple times our pitchers don't hardly throw during the weekend. During a big tourney you will see a pitcher start and if he can finish he most likely will. During the fall I think the most my nephew has thrown was 2 innings and I'm glad he did, the change from 46 to 50 ft was a big difference. I could be wrong but I don't know of anybody that plays baseball tourneys in the months of November and December, and I can't really remember a January that actually allowed us to work outdoors. So all in all I think that at least in our situation an arm injury is much less likely than during the spring. Also we didn't play any kind of baseball from July 10th to the last week of August. But I'm sure out there somewhere there is a dad or coach who works pitching year round.
ECBinsider, I couldnt' agree more with your last post if I am going to put a lot of money out there for travel baseball I want to be on a good team. More importantly, I want to have my nephew coached to win the game and not coached like a rec program where they pick the lineup out of a hat or play infield one inning and outfield the other. No knock on the teams that let everyone pitch but that is was a factor in why we left rec ball. I have no idea how good my nephew will be in 5 weeks much less 5 years but as long as he is willing to work and put his heart in it we will continue to play travel baseball. The memories we have are great and the friendships are even better. And while I agree with Mr. Gates about not trying out for another sport at 15 that you have never played you should diversify and play multiple sports, learn to like more than one because many factors can keep you from playing the one you love the most. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 10:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by sgates
Glavine said it best a few weeks ago and it validates my theory for not playing a fall schedule, he stated that playing hockey for 6 months out of the year growing up gave his arm a rest which was the major factor of him having a long career....thats my first reason, which is an addition to my second reason, less than 1% of the 120+ 11yo's at EC will make it to the bigs, which is why I stress to my players parents to PLEASE let your child go play other sports...Tennis, Basketball, Golf, Football, I dont care, just get them into something other than baseball so they are able to possibly find another sport that bests suites them, it may be baseball, it may be playing the piano, I dont know, but I would rather them try other sports now than to show up to tryouts in some sport as say a sophomore in High School and get embarrassed. But Tae, if it works for your team, keep it going, all of our teams makeup are different.
Gates
Fall ball is an interesting topic because it's not something that can be done up north but is regional to the south or west only. I understand everyone's concerns with playing fall ball but there is no correlation that says your more likely to get hurt if you play then if not. Baseball is year round in Florida, California and other southern states so it's very common. Playing fall ball or spring ball has nothing to do with wanting to make it to the major leagues, it's about those kids who have the want and desire to play fall base ball and that's it. As long as most of my team wants to play, we will play fall baseball and have fun doing so.
Almost all of our players play other sport, 3-4 are playing football, many will play basketball in the winter and 25% of the team will wrestle. With the exception of football, the rest are winter sports and will start around Halloween.
BTW, I grew up in the North and there is no fall ball there, just one season and that was summer. Tough to play baseball in 10 degree weather and snow as Tom Glavine would know being from NE. |
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ducktape6
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 15:16:58
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Since the big wigs (sgates & Mr Kirksey) have chimned in on this topic I guess I will make this a coming out post: This is my sons first year playing fall ball as I have been totally against it in the past. This year posed a unique challenge as I feel his 13 year old year will do as well. Moving to the new field and 50 feet pitching mound i think it was a good choice for my kid to play fall ball. He will have some experience with the field changes and it will start the muscle memory process. What I am against with fall ball, especially this year, is all the kids giving up "fall sports" to play fall ball, thinking that thier pro careers are about to start at the ripe age of eleven. I almost fell into that trap but came to my senses and allowed my kid to play football as he has every year since he was 5. We long toss once a week and play whatever fall tournaments are on the teams schedule, Sundays only.
Rest is the most critical part of this topic for those kids that play on teams that play 60 - 80 games a year. But the other key factor is that parents need to realize the importance of developing young athletes bodies and muscle movement. Kids that only play baseball will be physically behind the kids that play baseball and have consistantly played football when they reach 14 and 15. They will have to hit the weights hard just to keep up strenghth wise and on another note if you think your kid is the next big thing you are surely rolling the dice with one sport ...... Statitics the past 5 years in GA show that around 50% of the high baseball draft picks from GA played football as well to name a few (Delino Deshields, Jeff Francour, Donovan Tate, Jake Skole) and two of the top 10 picks this year will be college football quarterbacks (Locker,Kid at Clemson an the Kid at NC State) Not saying football is the answer but a FULL RIDE in baseball is not an easy accomplishment so if you are taking that gamble have your pennies rolled for a back up plan or at least have the application for the hope scholarship in the kitchen drawer.
Recruiting......Part of being a good youth coach or any coach for that matter is being a good recruiter. If coaches are talking to your kids after games trying to recruit them ..... Thats what he is suppose to do!!!!! The real question .... Are you doing what you are suppose to do as a coach and a leader and if so, a coach talking to your kid after games will not cause you to lose them......if for some reason the kid does leave you didnt have him from the begining. NOW..... when things go from TALKING to paying kids way, making side deals with 11 year old kids (Call me Rocket.....LMAO), then the coach should be banned from coaching.......Just my humble opinion. Put a good, clean product on the field recruit with integrity (Whatever that means) and you will win the recruiting battle every time. |
Edited by - ducktape6 on 09/27/2010 15:43:06 |
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MadSkills
128 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 16:32:53
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| Question regarding recruiting, we all know that is vital to any program but should a coach of a travel team take on new players who will improve his team and cut others who are not playing or contributing? Or, should they honor their commitment to a player for the season?? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 16:39:42
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There should be some very interesting data coming out in the next year or two that will largely support what we all know to be true which is that playing baseball year round is more likely to be detrimental to arm health. It was alluded to during the Little League World Series and the report is forthcoming. Basically, they have followed an extremely large sample population of little leaguer's from all over the country beginning in their youth and tracking them through high school. They are now beginning to graduate, so they are getting a large enough sample of data to begin drawing conclusions. Reports will be forthcoming.
Interstingly, they took a look at major league rosters and have found that they tend to be geographically split with more pitchers on ML rosters coming from the northern states and position players (better hitters) coming from the southern states. Their belief is that kids playing in the south, year round, tend to damage their arms to the extent that they aren't as strong or healthy as the northerners, yet hitting year round makes them far better hitters than their northern counterparts. Expect to see the data from their test group to support that hypothesis. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 17:44:45
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Ducktape - I agree with most everything in your post. My thoughts on fall ball are formed based on conversations with coaches that have done this a lot longer than me. I haven't heard one of them suggest that kids play fall ball at the younger ages. Some aren't against it but none have suggested it. With that said, there is no doubt that playing more baseball will help a kid get ahead of the pack (temporarily). This is why most of the best players come from about 6 of 7 states...Better baseball weather, which allows for more reps. However, there is a fine line and none of us know what it is....When is it too much for kids under 12U from a physical (arm's usually) and mental standpoint? I judge the mental side on one simple question to my son....Do you want to go hit or play catch? If he says, "sure" that means he's tired of it and he's just doing it because I asked. If he is excited, I can tell and for my son that excitement usually occurs when he's been away from it for awhile. I don't want this to be a job for any of these kids and I can tell when parents (sometimes mom's) are pushing their kids too hard and taking the fun right out of it. I can see it in kids on my team and teams we play against. Too much pressure for no reason. Most of these kids are in elementary school!
I agree, if a kid plays a fall sport and still has the time to play a few games, that can't hurt anybody. However, I still believe that these kids need to be working on their swings and throwing mechanics more than playing games. I suggest off season lessons, not more games but that's just my take. I have some very talented kids but all of them have huge holes in their swings and need to learn how to throw the ball properly. My coaches can strike any of them out and never throw it over 55 mph. It's all about plate coverage and most don't have it. Another 20 games in the fall isn't going to help any of this. IMO - If a kid and parent have the time to play football and also baseball in the fall, I would suggest lessons over games. Please realize my opinions are based on our schedule which was almost 90 games. If a kid plays for a team that doesn't get to play as many games each weekend or ends the season early, then game experience might be a different story.
As for recruiting - it's part of travel ball but it has really gone sideways over the past few years for reasons you mentioned. At some parks, it's just musical chairs with coaches trading kids in essence and everyone feeling better about their new team come spring. The funny part is that most of these kids are very similar in skill level. The main difference is that each parent thinks their kid is slightly better than the next kid - it's only natural. I just feel badly for the KIDS that had a coach commit to them and now wants to drop them for a better fall player. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 18:12:24
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DuckTape.....I nominate that one for post of the day....
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Edited by - Spartan4 on 09/27/2010 20:47:23 |
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