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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2010 : 08:47:19
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I have spent the entire weekend chasing the grandson's around the baseball parks of North Georgia. 13 year old participated in the 13U USSSA State at East Cobb, 11 year old participated in the Southern Baseball Tournament at Heritage Park in Dalton, and the 2 6 year old Dizzy Dean Allstars participated in their Districts, one in Fort Oglethorpe and the other in Rome.
So you imagine that I have the opportunity to see a lot of games but I also watched a lot of umpires. And before you think I am going to just bash umpires I want you to know that I saw some very dedicated men that did their best to do a good job and for the most part did.
Now I am going to explain to you what I think is wrong with this umpiring thing and what we can do as travel teams to help ourselves out. The problem that I am seeing is not coming from the umpiring as a whole but from a few "bad apples" that are giving their own a bad name. Two examples, In Rome,Georgia in the Dizzy Dean District Tournament, one of these bad apples tossed a 6 year old for 2 games and yes I said 6 year old for putting his hands in front of him as he ran across first base. Of course the bad apple made a huge scene to show all that would listen who was in charge and thumped on his chest that he was MR. UMPIRE and gave the old heave-ho to the child. Worst part of this scenario is now according to Dizzy Dean rules the child now has to miss the next game also. So what has happened is that a 6 year old child that was in his first ever all-star event only gets to play 1/2 of 1 game and his experience has been ruined by a grown up that wants only to show everyone that he is in charge. I have been in the Rome area for many years and have witnessed time after time after time after time this same ump in the same type situation although I did not personally see this one but did speak with the Dizzy Dean Director and several others and it appears the incident was as I described. When will they learn that this type thing is destroying what was once an elite and well respected program. I am not promoting the shoving, I am just asking you all if maybe just maybe a stern warning and lesson of how to run the bases should have been used instead of an ejection. If I am wrong then I apologize in advance but I saw the tears and pain in this child's eyes and then saw this very umpire laughing over the situation.
I then proceeded to Dalton to the 11 year old event and overall watched some excellent umpiring but then in the championship game got the chance to see the worst umpire in the world in my opinion and I am sure that he has some sort of paperwork that would prove this. This umpire was absolutely positively sure that the game was invented so he could show the world that he was the "BOSS OF THE WORLD". Had one of them Napoleon type personalities. I give Southern Baseball two thumbs down for even allowing this man in their park. Tournament at East Cobb and Fort Oglethorpe appeared to well umpired from the games I witnessed although I didn't see but a few in these venues.
Here's my solution. Next time that a team of mine is given an invitation or opportunity to enter either of these venues, We will ask if either of these umpires will be calling the games. If they are we will choose to take our business and our money elsewhere. I will begin to tell all of our friends and I hope that our friends will tell us what umpires that we should be avoiding. We will develop a list and maybe just maybe begin to weed out all of the bad apples.
Umpires are human and most of them are extremely unbiased and do a great job. I point out only a couple of the bad apples that seem to continue to give the profession a bad name.
I can't watch all of the games and most of the games that I watch you never even know the umpires are out there and this shows that there are many that are doing the best they can. I am not pointing out the human error part as we all know that even the best can make a mistake but I am pointing out the ones that always seem to be in the middle of every controversial call or controversial strike zone.
TELL THE DIRECTOR WHEN HE INVITES YOU TO THE TOURNAMENT THAT IF THIS MAN IS UMPIRING THAT WE WILL TAKE OUR MONEY ELSEWHERE AND I PROMISE THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE WILL BEGIN TO SEE BETTER UMPIRING. |
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tfb
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 09:42:41
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| Long post but worth reading and considering. There are many very good umpires out there. We had a bad umpire at a 16U tourney this weekend that had an effect on the outcome of the game. I think it is time to get rid of the bad umps (there can't be that many). If there are enough complaints about an ump over time they should not be allowed to ump travel ball. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 10:00:18
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Typically, unless the director is hiring umpires individually, rather than going through an umpires association, they don't really know who is coming to ump the games.
For example, at East Cobb, all the umpires are hired through the National Umpires Association (NUA)and are coordinated by Jim Stros.
If you have a complaint about how a game is umpired by a NUA Umpire (has the logo on their hat), you can go to the link below and post it. It can also be found on their website, www.nuaumpiresusa.org. (Please don't send complaints about non-NUA umpires to this site because it won't help.)
It is for umpires, coaches, or parents to submit a game report. If you have a serious complain, I would suggest going there to post it. (What I consider serious is issues related to rules knowledge and conduct.)
http://www.nuaumpiresusa.org/gamereport/gamereport.html
If the umpires are from another organization, ask the TD where you can officially post a complaint.
I don't believe any umpire wants to make bad calls. With the exception of a few I know, most all don't even want you to remember them after the game.
I think we can be part of the solution to making umpires better if we pass along useful feedback so that it can be addressed. Some info may be bigger than one or two umpires.
For example, I think a lot of umpires don't understand the interference call between a runner and fielder. I have seen this called incorrectly on both sides and is probably something that needs to be addressed as a group and not just one by one. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 10:22:35
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| This is exactly the type information that I hoped my post would attract. I stated that I was not attempting to bash umpiring as a whole but maybe to begin to come up with a solution. I agree that there are only a few bad ones out there and if they could be trained to do a better job then we are making progress and if they can't they should be released. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 10:33:00
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Alter-Ego: Do you agree that most of us that watch as many games as you and I recognize several umpires that appear to do a poor job game after game after game. My suggestion is that we as the teams paying the bills address this guy with the TD involved and say we will play if this particular umpire is not allowed to call the games. I am interested in getting rid of the bad apples once and for all.
One of the Umpires in my original post was one that I had never witnessed and he appeared to have a GHSA patch on his sleeve. I was told by 4 people that played high school ball that I was getting ready to witness the worst umpire ever. So in other words someone had already experienced this umpire prior to my seeing him and if they had came forward earlier it might have saved us a lot of grief. By the way the 4 people were absolutely right on the money in their assessment.
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rock44melnix
110 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 11:22:36
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| LOL on NUA being responsive. Last year, I sent in 4 different incident reports regarding rule applications during various games and not one response ever. I know of a couple coaches this year that did the same and contacted Stros directly and got nothing but a line of excuses and that they had too much time on their hands if they were worried about such issues. There are always going to be complaints and issues in games we all know that, but it's the examples that you bring up Papa that are the one's that really drive people nuts and not keeping these umps accountable is crazy. Funniest yet saddest rule "interpretation" to date...ground ball hit down the line and hits the base...the call "Foul ball" but Mr. Ump..it hit the base! "Why yes it did, but it hit the foul part of the base" - now how on earth do you handle that explanation? |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 23:50:37
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From a tournament director's stand point umpiring can make or break your tournament. They can make a good ran event, a GREAT EVENT or a average ran event a BAD EVENT. Being a former 13 year vetern umpire (youth/high school/college) the problem that i see is since umpiring is in big demand do to so much baseball to call. Most guys are young and that's ok but they are thrown on the field before they get the proper traing and knowledge of the rules. Trust me, umpiring is not as easy as it looks and is not for everyone that try's it. Guys that take it serious and want to do it for a long time will want to learn from the older guys but also learn from there mistakes. They will also study the rule book and attend camps and clinic's. Most missed calls are due to not being in the proper position and that is in large part of not hustling. I stress to guys all the time to be on top of the play and be in position to make the call. Even the more experienced guys miss calls. It happens at all levels but they are not perfect. A good crew will get together and get the call right if it needs changing. I stress this practice a lot. "get it right" A umpire's character is what he maks it. A good umpire never even wants to be noticed. However, there is always that umpire (just like a coach)that wants everybody to know he's out there and he's in charge. I call this "OVER UMPIRING" and is something that is talked about in all camps and clinic's.
Georgia USSSA wanted to put more importance on umpire training this year so along with some help from a few NCAA COLLEGE umpire's i was able to have the first ever GEORGIA USSSA UMPIRE CLINIC back in Jan. We also now for the first time in Georgia have a USSSA UIC. (JACK MARTIN) The camp was small but a success the first year with 86 umpires. With the help of Jack Martin and the NCAA guys and poss a PRO umpire we expect our numbers to triple for the 2nd Annual clinic this winter. All umpire's from any assoc are welcome to attend as we try to improve the quality of umpiring and training that these guys need in order to do there jobs to the best of there ability....Watch for 2011 clinic dates on the Georgia USSSA web-site.
Bubba Smith
Georgia USSSA
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stanlewis
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 09:04:25
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| I am not posting replies that are just examples of bad calls. We all know they happen and if you have been around baseball for any length of time you have seen some horrendous calls. I think what Papa is encouraging here is a dialog of what can the baseball community do to help raise the level of umpiring. The demand for umpires has increased because we are playing far far more games than just a few years ago and increases every year. We not only need to raise the quality but we need to increase the number of people willing to umpire. We need to be part of the solution or things will just get worse. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 09:13:52
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| We've played in numerous tournaments over the years. Of all the tournament fees, gate fees, concessions etc., you would think large tournaments could hire and pay an extra set of rotating umpires......I've seen the same umps, have to umpire 4-5 games a day sometimes. In 96 degree heat with equipment and getting screamed at by coaches and fans. Overall, they do a pretty good job but I have seen some calls missed at many times. I have to believe that after a while, fatigue sets in and should be considered. Doesn't it make sense to get a rotation so that can at least get a break at some point during the day ? Don't these large tournaments take in enough cash to EASILY justify and pay for this ? |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 09:41:39
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| Stan is right. All that I am trying to do is to discuss ways as the baseball team that we can find a solution to this ongoing problem of what many consider to be the bad umpire. I think that if the teams work together and if enough of us tell the TD's that someone is not performing properly that the problem might get addressed. In the past we all just throw a big tantrum, yell at the umpire, tell him what all he did wrong and wait for him to call the next game the same way except now he is mad at your team because you yelled at him. If we as the paying and the key word is "paying teams" let the TD know that we have had enough of the bad apple then maybe the TD will see that if makes economic sense to leave the bad apple or bad umpire in this case at home. |
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newman
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2010 : 16:35:03
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Papa,
I agree when you have a choice. But what do you do when you don't have a choice? Like in the case you were talking about, your son playing in Dizzy Dean. You can't just say "We aren't playing". You have to play in their "One and only" district & state tour if you want to continue on. If you want to play in certain World Series', you have to play in their state tour. What do you do then? But I thought you north Ga boys had your own way of "persuading" people. |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2010 : 22:05:51
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I agree that there are some "bad apples" in the bunch and I also agree that the umpires association should be doing a better job policing themselves to weed those guys out, or offer them more training to bring them up to par...maybe like a probationary period or something. WITH THAT SAID, however, I think the idea of rotating them will never work and here is why. The TDs basically pay the association around $30 per game per umpire. By the time the association takes its cut, Uncle Sam takes his cut, the expense of equipment and travel expenses to the field and all of that are deducted the umpire ends up with maybe $18 per game. In the current configuration on a good Saturday he can call about 5 or 6 games. In a best case scenario he is going to make about $100. If you were to double up the officials to give them breaks between games or a rotation he is going to be looking at about $50 and I think at $50 we would LOSE too many good umpires because it just wouldn't be worth it to them. Of course, the rebuttal to that is that the TD's should pay more to get better quality umpires and their answer to you on that would be that if they have to pay more for umpires then they would have to charge more for tournament fees...welcome to the capitalistic society that I love. No matter what, it is a business. The TD's need to make a profit, the umpire association needs to make a profit, and the umpires need to make a profit or each of them go away and then where are we left?
So, my suggestion is to come with a solution that involves correcting the problem within the system we already have....a periodic judging of the officials by an UIC or something. A way that umpires can be evaluated and when corrective action needs to be taken, it will be. On the contrary, it would also allow for umpires that are judged the highest among their peers to get more perks...maybe they call the championship games or maybe they move up an age classification or something. A way to reward the best ones while offering corrective action for the ones that are behind.
Of course, I am a nobody and can only offer my $.02. I am sure there are better ways, mine is just one suggestion.
--T
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2010 : 22:28:49
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| I kinda was thinking they'd get paid for the game they sat out, hydrated and rested a little. For each tournament, that is not that much money and is something that is doable....if it would help with quality ? |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 13:46:47
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Gasbag....not trying to argue with you, sir, I promise, because reading your posts you are very intelligent with some great ideas....I am just pointing out the "counter point", if you will. So you are going to bring in another crew to work just the one game in the middle to give them a chance to eat lunch, get some air, drink some gatorade and recharge? While that sounds like a great idea in theory, but would you take the job of the "relief crew" and go to work a part time job on a Saturday that you would have to drive to, gear up for, work for 2 hours and get paid $18?
--T
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 14:59:37
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CoachT I think I'm understanding what you are saying....but what I was thinking ( and didn't really explain very well ) was something like this:
Hypothetical time slots Game Game Game Rest
9-11 Crew D Crew B Crew C Crew A
11:30-1:30 Crew D Crew A Crew C Crew B
2-4 Crew D Crew A Crew B Crew C
4:30-6:30 Crew A Crew B Crew C Crew D
In this fashion, each umpiring crew would get paid for 4 full games but only umpire 3 games. I'm probably looking at it incorrectly but I thought something like this could work ? |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 18:55:00
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Hey GB....I do see what you are saying now...and I admit, that I like the idea ALOT....but using your same system there then it is going to cost the TD an additional $240 for that extra crew ($30 x 2 officials x 4 games) for just that one day. Using your analogy above they would be able to cover 4 games, or 8 teams, right? So the TD is going to say, we can do that as long as we can recoup the money so $240 / 8 teams X 2 days = $60 more per tournament per team. Are you OK with that? I am and I would be willing to pay more, but I don't know if everyone else will be because everyone thinks that the TD's are already making a million dollars per weekend doing these tournaments anyway ;)
--T
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Southern Baseball
165 Posts |
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iseabrook
16 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 20:54:44
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| One of the major problems here is that a lot of the umpires you see have never had any training. A lot of these guys get into it because they are trying to make a fast buck. There's a lot more to umpiring than calling balls and strikes anf if people are gonig to get into it they needto treat it as so. I watched a tournament this week where the umpires were allowing 12warm up pitches in between innings and got mad when the opposing catcher threw down on the fifth pitch because it caused him and his partner to end their conversation. |
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POOR UMPIRING AND OUR OPTIONS
