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tae281
447 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2010 : 09:11:49
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I think we've all seen games where a team is ahead 7,8,9 or 10 runs only to have the other team come back and either tie it up or even win the game. At what point do you stop stealing bases and being aggressive, the last thing anyone wants to do is rub it in to your opponent?
This happened to my team last year, we were up 10-0 and the other team came back and scored 9 unanswered runs and had the winning run on 2nd base but we got the last out to end it.
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Rich S
14 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 09:53:42
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| That's a fine line...I think if you're team is ahead by 8-10 runs or more you need to back it off a bit...hopefully the other team doesn't make a comeback in a single inning leaving you less time to pour it back on...but as with anything, there's going to be the time it comes back to bite you, thankfully we can know that's the exception rather than the rule. Sportsmanship is an important part of the game that all too often is either forgotten or placed on hold. |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 10:47:41
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Sportsmanship is a big part of the game! I think my son might have played on the team that made the comeback Tae mentioned last year. Could be wrong, but our team made such a comeback in the tournament we played together with them. Anyway, I think it is a bit of a fine line. If you're up 10 on a team you know has no chance to score on you, then you back off. If you're up 10 on my current team, you keep grinding, because we're going to come back and score some runs on you! We were down 9-0 to the WP Scorpions and scored 8 the last 2 innings and had the go-ahead run in scoring position when the game ended. Last year, the 9u team my son played on lost 2 games after being up by 10 runs. At this age, when you have two competitive teams, no lead under 10 runs is safe, in my opinion.
As you might guess, I am a Buckeye fan, and one of the things Jim Tressel does well is know when the other team is toast. His team might get up 17-0 at half, and most D1 coaches are still going for scores in the second half. He typically shuts down his offense in those types of games, because he knows his defense is not going to give up anything, and he wins unimpressively 20-3. That's what I do when I play a team that even if they played their best baseball couldn't score more than a handful of runs. I give different kids a chance to pitch, which benefits us down the road. I've had a couple of 10-1 games turn into 10-7 games, but the risk of the loss was worth what we got out of it. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 11:51:56
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Great question and it all depends...if they're a conference affiliations, park affiliations etc., you take your foot off the gas and allow them their dignity...usually. If they are known as a dirty, unsportsmanlike out of conference or park team....the petal stays to the floor the WHOLE game.
Unfortunately in tournament travel ball, running the score up on a team is rewarded as you are fighting for seeding for bracket play. Most organizations imparted a 7 run max rule to reduce your motivations to run the score up and embarrass teams. However, I think it boils down to having class. Once you're assured of your 7 runs, you can let up. |
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Top Gun
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 14:18:35
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This is a great topic because there so many variables. I agree that pool play causes a lot of the issues because even in the Triple Crown rules two of the tie-breakers are still total runs scored and the last game's total margin.
It's really hard to consider backing off until you are into the run-rule innings (usually the 3rd). But I've even had opposing coaches try to shame me in the 2nd inning with an 8-0 lead. I usually start by not trying to score on passed balls at home and cut off the stealing (although passed balls other than home they can go). Then I graduate to not scoring from 2nd on a single.
My general rule of thumb of backing off is 12 in the second or third inning, and 15 in the 4th inning. Once we're in the 4th inning of the run-rule innings, then 4 or 5 runs over the run rule amount should ensure we don't play another inning (at which point both coaches want to cut down on innings pitched anyway).
I think as long as the opposing coach knows you are trying, then you generally should not have an issue. Most coaches my teams have run-ruled say thank you after the game when they've seen us back off. |
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biggerpapi
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 13:11:18
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| I heard a coach say "when the other team quits trying to score, so will we". Makes sense to me. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 13:53:44
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| I guess I will be the guy with the unpopular opinion once again. As much as it seems trashy to continue to pile on runs to a team that is already beat, I personally believe we enter these tournaments to win. That being said I think managing pitching is an important part of tournament strategy, and if we need to pile on 5 more runs to keep from burning another inning of pitching then so be it. Like I said not the most popular opinion but this is how I see it. |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 15:25:46
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I agree we where winning a game last year 10-0 after inning number 1 and lost 13-11 had another game we where winning 10-3 after three innings and the other team came back to beat us 12-10. Two weekends ago a team was beating us 7-1 after 4 innings and we won the game 8-7. I will never again allow my kids to take the foot off of the gas until the other team basically quits. quote:
Originally posted by biggerpapi
I heard a coach say "when the other team quits trying to score, so will we". Makes sense to me.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 06:54:38
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| Tournament game I say never. Regular game I say when you are up by 11. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 09:10:22
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I think there are some key pieces to this that have to be included:
What do we consider stopping being aggressive?
I have always lived by the rule of After 10 runs you:
*quit bunting
*quit stretching a double into a triple (on 2nd, you are still in scoring position)
*Stop aggressively stealing. Still take advantage of a teams mistakes (i.e. move up on wild pitch/pass balls, errant throws, etc)
You don't:
* Stop trying to hit and score runners.
* Stop trying to throw out runners trying to steal.
* Stop fundamentally playing defense. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 12:20:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
I think there are some key pieces to this that have to be included:
What do we consider stopping being aggressive?
I have always lived by the rule of After 10 runs you:
*quit bunting
*quit stretching a double into a triple (on 2nd, you are still in scoring position)
*Stop aggressively stealing. Still take advantage of a teams mistakes (i.e. move up on wild pitch/pass balls, errant throws, etc)
You don't:
* Stop trying to hit and score runners.
* Stop trying to throw out runners trying to steal.
* Stop fundamentally playing defense.
I agree 100% |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 14:50:25
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| spartan i like your idea..how often has that worked out for you this year? |
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ljames
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 14:53:05
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| The problem I see with taking your foot off the gas is needing to turn it on later and not being able to do so. Momentum plays a HUGE part of sports in general. Over the years I've been a part of and watched many games that did not end the way one would have thought after the first 4 innings. Don't get me wrong I don't believe in embarrassing anyone, but I do believe that it is difficult for kids to turn "it" off and on. In a lot of cases once you've taken your foot off the gas the engine sputters when you try to speed back up. |
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bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 16:26:28
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In major tournaments, pitching is like gold so you want to preserve arms. Run-rule a team as quick as you possibly can, throttle down, no mercy. I would expect my opponent to do the same. It's not about them, it's about the tourney.
Otherwise, play the game as a gentleman would - ease up on the base paths, bring in your 4th or 5th starters, substitute liberally, work on some finer points stuff, etc. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 20:22:03
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| Honestly Teddy our team really didn't start to show promise until after we cut some fat and picked up one more big boy. But our last tourney we run ruled a team in the championship with my nephew on the mound. I'm perfectly ok with him pitching one less inning in any tourney. Last year in the Super NIT we beat a team 34-something. We turned every kid around and made them switch hit and still scored 24 runs in the last inning. The point I was trying to make is that there is no reason to show up to a tourney and not try to win. The team getting beat also needs to take a look at their situation, if you are a coach on a team that is consistently getting run-ruled how are you helping the kids?? |
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When to stop being aggressive?
