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rjrousseau1
81 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2010 : 09:18:39
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| Can someone tell me if the rules prohibit a 1st baseman placing his foot/leg in front of the base while holding on a runner, blocking the base runners path back to the base or is it just bush league coaching? I have been told by 1 umpire that effective this year a fielder cannot block any base without POSSESSION of the ball. The prior rule was a fielder can block a base if he was "in the process" of fieldeing a throw. Another umpire told me that was changed to "in the immediate process." But a 1st baseman standing there while the pitcher has the ball would not be in the process, in the immediate process or with possession yet I see umpire after umpire let this happen. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 14:52:45
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| I have been told by umpires that they won't do anything about it until there is a play. If there is a play and the fielder has blocked the bag without the ball (whatever definition you want to use), then they will call obstruction (or is it interference - I always get confused), and the runner will be safe and get the next base. So, as a base coach, I just make sure that I point it out to the umpire, so they can be aware in case it happens. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 15:04:07
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This happened to us twice in the Triple Crown event this weekend. The
2nd baseman was planted in front of 2nd base awaiting the throw from the catcher. Our runner had to try to go around him to avoid a collision and was tagged out both times. Is that legal? I thought only the catcher could do that. |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 18:30:27
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
This happened to us twice in the Triple Crown event this weekend. The
2nd baseman was planted in front of 2nd base awaiting the throw from the catcher. Our runner had to try to go around him to avoid a collision and was tagged out both times. Is that legal? I thought only the catcher could do that.
This happened to us as well and because our runner slid around the 2nd baseman the runner was called out. The umpire later said that you need to slid directly into the defensive player blocking the bag and he would be called safe then. Sounds to me, someone will get hurt if that's the case. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 20:36:13
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| The runner should slide feet first into the base if the base is blocked. If the player blocking the base illegally gets hurt then so be it. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 11:08:35
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| I have been told by every umpire that I've ever talked to that you have to have contact in order for them to make an obstruction or interference call. |
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Hillio
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 12:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
The runner should slide feet first into the base if the base is blocked. If the player blocking the base illegally gets hurt then so be it.
My son did this exact thing in a 9U game this weekend. He was stealing 3rd and slid feet first into the 3rd baseman's foot/leg (he was blocking the bag well before the throw arrived) and my son actually ended up rolling his own ankle and injuring himself on the play. He wasn't hurt very badly and got over it pretty quickly, but it could have been a nasty injury. It was definitely a situation where the 3rd basemen had no business trying to block the bag. He was in such a poor position on the play that he couldn't even make the catch on a decent throw from the catcher and the ball went into left field.
I wish there was a more clear cut definition to this rule, because it has happened to us on multiple occasions, and it has never been called by any umpire. |
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rjrousseau1
81 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 17:28:08
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| Sounds like everyone is on the same page... biggest fear is it's a safety issue for the baserunner and the fielder... and unfortunately the rule is clear as mud. An umpire this weekend said "as long as the base runner has a portion of the base to slide into it's fine, I can't stop the 1st baseman from holding on the runner that way" (blocking 1st base with his foot and leg). The other team's first baseman had more than half the base taken away if the runner dives back into 1B on a pickoff... shoulder into a shin/knee could be a broken color bone and a more aggressive runner may go back hard into the 1st baseman's knee... neither would be a good results. it was always my understanding the base was the baserunners, not a fielder's who did not have the ball. I just solved it by telling the other coach if he's teaching that it's bush league. |
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LLH
98 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 21:30:34
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| The best news for everyone is that as the cleats go metal you will only have homeplate blocked. They will learn to make a sweeping tag or pay for it. |
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who
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 12:29:01
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I saw this exact scenario happen earlier this season.
The runner on 1st base dove back safely to the base during a pick off attempt. THEN the ball arrived and after catching the throw over from the pitcher, the 1st baseman immediately dropped to his knee landing squarely on the runners forearm with all his weight.
The 1st baseman had positioned his foot on the back corner of the base so when he dropped to his knee, his lower leg would be blocking the base entirely.
The runner had to come out of the game, although to my knowledge there were no broken bones as was first feared.
I've never seen pro players play 1st base this way. My guess is if they do, they better get ready to duck during their next at bat. Either way, I believe it is a disservice to teach a kid to play 1st base like this and is not likely helping him long term.
My understanding of the rule is that the base can't be blocked in anticipation of the throw, but like many rules, there must be judgement applied by the umpires.
quote:
Originally posted by rjrousseau1
Sounds like everyone is on the same page... biggest fear is it's a safety issue for the baserunner and the fielder... and unfortunately the rule is clear as mud. An umpire this weekend said "as long as the base runner has a portion of the base to slide into it's fine, I can't stop the 1st baseman from holding on the runner that way" (blocking 1st base with his foot and leg). The other team's first baseman had more than half the base taken away if the runner dives back into 1B on a pickoff... shoulder into a shin/knee could be a broken color bone and a more aggressive runner may go back hard into the 1st baseman's knee... neither would be a good results. it was always my understanding the base was the baserunners, not a fielder's who did not have the ball. I just solved it by telling the other coach if he's teaching that it's bush league.
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gloveman
40 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 22:00:00
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| I seeing this every weekend. We do not teach it and no other team should. I tell my team we will do things the right way. In High School some one get carted off the field for covering the bases without the ball. Teach em right..... |
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Calif_Baseball
292 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 09:41:56
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Because of this thread I started to watch the First baseman. I could not believe my eyes. My boy plays 9U and in one of his games this past weekend I saw the first baseman have his foot in front of the base and when the pitcher would throw over he would drop down to his knee and block the bag entirely before he had the ball. I first thought it was just the 9 year old not knowing. But he continued to do it. So I told our coach and he addressed it with the base ump. The Ump told the kid that he couldn't do what he was doing. The other Manager went through the roof SCREAMING..LOL He said it was legal and continued to argue with the Umps. He even called the Tournament Director over..What a scene.
So Thanks for the Knowledge. I would have never picked that up unless I seen it on here..
CB |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 10:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Calif_Baseball
Because of this thread I started to watch the First baseman. I could not believe my eyes. My boy plays 9U and in one of his games this past weekend I saw the first baseman have his foot in front of the base and when the pitcher would throw over he would drop down to his knee and block the bag entirely before he had the ball. I first thought it was just the 9 year old not knowing. But he continued to do it. So I told our coach and he addressed it with the base ump. The Ump told the kid that he couldn't do what he was doing. The other Manager went through the roof SCREAMING..LOL He said it was legal and continued to argue with the Umps. He even called the Tournament Director over..What a scene.
So Thanks for the Knowledge. I would have never picked that up unless I seen it on here..
CB
Once your coach told the umpire. The umpire should have kept his mouth shut until the play resulted in a player being tagged out then revese the call due to obstruction. Now that is when the other coach would have gone nuts. But it is the right way for the ump to call it. He should not instruct a player on how to play just call the game by the rules and let the rest play out. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 10:25:27
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I can understand the kid not knowing, but the coach seems like an a**. I remember when my som was on the 8U all-stars, he had to be reminded not block the runner. This was coach pitch so it was more a matter of not being in the way. he learned. Everyone was happy. I saw a 10U last weekend playing second. When we had a runner leading off of second, he would kneel across the base. I guess he wanted to be possiitioned for the low throw. But it gave our runner no where to go if he needed to get back. I watched him for a bit, and then he stopped. There was never a play so it did not effect the game. But now I am wondering if he had been tought to do that. I had assumed he was just trying to stay low?
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bb2210
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 11:01:18
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| My son plays 1st base (full time in Little League and pt in travel) and I have never noticed any of this but I will be watching from now on. He's pretty good about just getting "his" piece of the base just to make a play so I can imagine that some of these scenarios are being taught. Luckily my son weighs about 70 pounds (at 10U) and tries his best to stay away from the collision because in most situations he'd come out on the losing end :) |
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rjrousseau1
81 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 09:39:41
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| IMO when you see a player doing this (especially at 1B) he was probably coached that way, and that is what is most dissappointing. The coach that went thru the roof obviously teaches it or it would not have bothered him so much. Like others in the post have said, we teach our kids the right way to play the game, unfortunately there are too many coaches out there that don't really care what's right if they can gain an advantage. I have actually heard coaches yell out to their defensive player, "it's your base Joey, don't give him anything." Well actually it's the runners base... |
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michaelp
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 20:01:49
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| Shut out I have to disagree that "the umpire should keep his mouth shut" an ounce of prevention will solve a pound of crap later. I had a situation like this occur where the coach mentioned it to me and I asked the first baseman if he had played 1st before and he had not so I just mentioned that he needs to give the runner a lane to get back to the base. Also if I mention it and the first baseman still does it and the coach comes out and I tell him the player was warned it pretty much ends the discussion. These are just boys playing a game and telling the officials to keep there mouth shut is bad baseball. |
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Blocking the Base w/out the ball
