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Renegade44
211 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2017 : 11:54:09
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"I'd like to see technology that if end caps are removed, the bats become useless and cannot be used again, or obvious to a blind person it's been modified. That would be a greater stride towards player safety more than a new stamp and a money grab. "
"Simple rule, any time a pitcher or fielder is struck and injured by a batted ball, the umpire immediately confiscates the bat and ball in said play, and are removed until testing can be done and certified legal and within tolerances. That would do 2 things, 1) protect other players from future risk but 2) hold liable any dad, coach or team that injures another player due to an illegal bat and/or ball."
Yell THAT^^^^ to the top of the mountain.
Personally I am sick and tired of bat rolling being excused as legal, and of shaving being able to be done without tamper proof endcaps in place. There is no excuse for tampering or altering the performance of your bat in any way, except by hitting it yourself for thousands of swings as intended.
I'd put money on an experienced coach can identify an illegal bat 99 times out of 100 based solely on the SOUND it makes when the ball is hit. Altered bats DO NOT SOUND like the factory model. Use your ears, they will tell you all you need to know......and then verify with your eyes (half swing, off balance distance, every players uses same bat,etc) But the sound is a dead giveaway!
And if you think BBCOR is the answer HAHAAAAhaha!. Tamper proof endcaps are needed. BBCOR bats are being messed with just the same, especially the metal alloy ones. But get the oldest cheapest thing you can find, because they last about 100 swings before exploding when shaved. Hint: don't waste them on practice swings in cage.
I'm not gonna tolerate the bat bs. Not at high school, not at Legion, and not at travel ball. When I hear/see it, its gonna get called out, .....and 9 times out of 10 the rats scurry half the bat rack to the parking lot before an official or director arrives. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 13:33:42
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Crazyforbball; Yes, at 14u most places let you swing wood or metal. HOWEVER, coaches want you to swing metal if you can. When my son was 12u he was a giant, I asked the coach about getting a drop 5 you know to help him "transition". I was told a firm "you can get it, but I won't let him swing it in a game. We have the advantage that he is big and strong and can hit it over the fence every at bat. Having him swing a drop 5 might help him slightly next year but the team needs him to swing a drop 10 now."
RUSemiPro: The transition thing seems to be crap anyway. Rather than having all parents buy 4 different types of bats, which many can barely afford one, let's change the teams. If you are 13u and under 5'0 tall you go to this league, over and you go to this league. I am actually joking but it makes as much sense as the crazy bat nonsense. Some kids swing faster, harder, better. Those are called SPECIAL kids. Not everyone is special, and I wish people would quit trying to make everyone equal.
As for "rigged pool play draws"....dude...really? So the 643 Cougars, ECB Astros, and Team Elite Prime should all play each other in pool play, knock two of them down to silver and bronze so Team XYZ daddy ball can make it into the gold bracket? If you don't like the way the directors do pool play get out now, it only gets worse. In PG only ONE team out of the pool advances to bracket and they sprinkle in what they consider the top teams the same way, that way you don't have 2 top national teams knocking the other out. "Beating up on smaller weaker teams in pool play"....then why were those teams in the same tourney with the Elite Major team? Does anyone else find it odd that the only org that does truly separate AA from Major and makes you prove it is USSSA and they have little to no presence in GA after 12u?
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 13:54:14
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| I have always said wood would end all the mess. Safer and teams would have more feilds they could play on with wood. Cooperstown with wood would mean most teams would have 3 or less kids hit home runs with the bats they use now every kid on the team has a chance to hit one. I understand this might be the only time a kid can hit a homerun in his life, but I still say if you are trying to wear uniforms like the old school players etc might as well use wood. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 14:41:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
I have always said wood would end all the mess. Safer and teams would have more feilds they could play on with wood. Cooperstown with wood would mean most teams would have 3 or less kids hit home runs with the bats they use now every kid on the team has a chance to hit one. I understand this might be the only time a kid can hit a homerun in his life, but I still say if you are trying to wear uniforms like the old school players etc might as well use wood.
Kudos!
I doubt the tournament directors would do wood bat at youth level. Games would be boring and low scoring. Instead of seeing 20 HR in a tournament, there might be just 1. Too much like real baseball.
USA claims there is a wood shortage by their bat rule statement. I highly doubt that. Some of us have more maple on our floors than MLB teams have all season.
Too simple to regulate drop per age. (being sarcastic) People usually have 3 bats for their kids anyway, so it's not a money issue especially if you are playing travel ball.
Taking my young one to the cages tonight before it rains tomorrow. What are we swinging?
Marucci AP5
Chandler J42
Sambat 2K1
All wood, just difference balance points. |
Edited by - Punishers on 10/27/2017 16:38:47 |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 15:11:27
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What I am saying is IF these elite/major teams had to play one another occasionally in pool play and not call in or request their opponents or game times. They may not be making as many Gold Bracket appearances or records be so inflated, and maybe not be labeled so ELITE. It is much easier to win your 1st round game on Sunday when you know you've been handed 2 cupcakes on Saturday and don't have to blow your pitching to get there. Gives those teams an advantage in that 1st elimination round against the so called "daddy ball", local or lesser teams, so these ELITE teams can make the deeper run.
All I am saying is if we are going to "Level" the playing field in the spirit of fair play, look at everything and don't just cry about the bats. At the end of the day it's a competition and everyone is trying to win. I get it, people will do whatever it takes I guess.
But you say 643, ECB and Team Elite are too good to play each other in pool play? Why? Perception? History? Entitlement? All I'm saying is it happens and it's an advantage, not illegal just like the zen drop 5's....
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
As for "rigged pool play draws"....dude...really? So the 643 Cougars, ECB Astros, and Team Elite Prime should all play each other in pool play, knock two of them down to silver and bronze so Team XYZ daddy ball can make it into the gold bracket?
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 15:18:13
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| Perhaps this happens every year... But it is VERY noticeable in the fall. When you have elite teams (Astros, Jackets, Team Elite, etc) playing in the same 1-day tourneys with AA/AAA teams, and yes, it could be dangerous for a lower level 3B to be in the 'firing line' of a 6+ foot elite major kid hitting missiles down the line. But, come spring, there's D1 and then D2/D3 tourneys and outside of a couple of kids, everything is more 'even'. First, your elite Major teams are probably in 14U, or if they are playing in a 13U tourney it would be either 60/90 or at the very least, against similar competition-- where your 3B is better suited (athletically) to field said missiles... Or maybe not. Maybe this is a rarity. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2017 : 20:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
I have always said wood would end all the mess. Safer and teams would have more feilds they could play on with wood. Cooperstown with wood would mean most teams would have 3 or less kids hit home runs with the bats they use now every kid on the team has a chance to hit one. I understand this might be the only time a kid can hit a homerun in his life, but I still say if you are trying to wear uniforms like the old school players etc might as well use wood.
Kudos!
I doubt the tournament directors would do wood bat at youth level. Games would be boring and low scoring. Instead of seeing 20 HR in a tournament, there might be just 1. Too much like real baseball.
USA claims there is a wood shortage by their bat rule statement. I highly doubt that. Some of us have more maple on our floors than MLB teams have all season.
Too simple to regulate drop per age. (being sarcastic) People usually have 3 bats for their kids anyway, so it's not a money issue especially if you are playing travel ball.
Taking my young one to the cages tonight before it rains tomorrow. What are we swinging?
Marucci AP5
Chandler J42
Sambat 2K1
All wood, just difference balance points.
I just did the math. That's 3 high end wood bats at the same price of a demarini zen plus tax. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2017 : 08:31:07
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| To the points above about pool play, in fall it's just a shake out. Come spring, tournaments SHOULD be, and usually are, in line with talent. As turntwo points out, you have your division D1 D2 etc. at TC. PG has majors vs non majors separations. Even Grand Slam divides it up. In the fall no sense stressing over it it's largely for some reps and learning who can do what. Granted wins/losses will affect your team record so if that's a concern, choose your tournaments accordingly. Same thing in spring. If you are a AA team don't sign up for D1. If you start to see the lineup stack up with Astros, Jackets, Cougars, drop out of that one. Likewise the clear majors teams shouldn't be signing up for a lineup made up of primarily AA/low AAA team's to get their fall reps in because that's lame. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 10/28/2017 10:15:36 |
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RamblinWreck93
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2017 : 09:54:07
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I agree with all the points Crazyforbball made. The only thing that I would add is that I like using fall as a measuring stick and have my team play in some open tournaments where we are one of the weaker teams. Playing against better teams not only helps to see what I have but also serves as example of what “good” looks like for the players on my team. Entering tournaments where the other teams are clearly below your level doesn’t help you get better.
I also agree with many of the points Punishers has said in this post (and others) about using wood bats. I think it would be safer, level the playing field to a certain degree, and eliminate this nonsense of rolling or shaving composite bats. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 09:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by RUSemiPro
What I am saying is IF these elite/major teams had to play one another occasionally in pool play and not call in or request their opponents or game times. They may not be making as many Gold Bracket appearances or records be so inflated, and maybe not be labeled so ELITE. It is much easier to win your 1st round game on Sunday when you know you've been handed 2 cupcakes on Saturday and don't have to blow your pitching to get there. Gives those teams an advantage in that 1st elimination round against the so called "daddy ball", local or lesser teams, so these ELITE teams can make the deeper run.
All I am saying is if we are going to "Level" the playing field in the spirit of fair play, look at everything and don't just cry about the bats. At the end of the day it's a competition and everyone is trying to win. I get it, people will do whatever it takes I guess.
But you say 643, ECB and Team Elite are too good to play each other in pool play? Why? Perception? History? Entitlement? All I'm saying is it happens and it's an advantage, not illegal just like the zen drop 5's....
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
As for "rigged pool play draws"....dude...really? So the 643 Cougars, ECB Astros, and Team Elite Prime should all play each other in pool play, knock two of them down to silver and bronze so Team XYZ daddy ball can make it into the gold bracket?
They aren't labeled elite because of their gold bracket appearances, they are labeled elite for their wins or second place finishes. Gold bracket is for the best teams to advance. If you have all the best teams play each other in pool play you don't have the best teams advance.
And if the elite teams pitch the bottom of their pitching pen in pool play that shows their depth, and gives those kids some reps on the mound. Johnny may be the most elite SS on the planet but his real love is pitching, those "cupcake" pool play games are his shot to get some mound time in. In other words, they serve a purpose to the kids development, and that is what this is suppose to be about.
If you don't want to play the elite teams, or only have 3 decent pitchers, then do as crazyforbball recommends. If you see the list becoming stacked find a different tourney. However, I do not think that is in the best interest of the kids. To become better you have to see and play against better. |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 11:41:27
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As the saying goes, "iron sharpens iron". You can only tell how good your are or how much work you need by competing against the best. Those "open" tournaments in the Fall and early Spring allow for that to happen. Some kids realize that they are just as good as those playing for the "elite" teams while others have a reality check.
I know of kid playing for a AA team against Major teams in an open TC tournament. The kid stood out so much that he was invited to pickup with an elite team the following week at PG. The kid went from playing defense for 45 minutes in one inning with multiple errors to playing an entire 6 inning game in 1:15 with no errors by either team. He came back and worked his butt off and made an elite team in the following Spring.
The Fall and early Spring are great times to let you boys see the best play and hopefully help them set personal goals. As stated above, the overall purpose at 13U and younger is development. Not many kids are being recruited at 13. Coaches only concerned about padding win records or stats don't really care about the kids' developing into better players. They only care about bragging about their W/L record. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 11:53:52
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| I think there should be some type of seeding process. Even Perfect Game has screwed me a few times where I had to throw my best pitchers in pool play to just make bracket and you look over and see 4 AAA teams going 1-1-1 and advancing in bracket. Usually though once you make a statement in Pool play or bracket the PG guys realize where you should be and even it out some or seed a little bit so they get the best teams in bracket. I think it should be the same way at Triple Crown especially gold silver bronze brackets, Pool play is to warm up and see what you got, when you go to bracket you want to be facing teams like you not Stud teams that run through bracket or weak teams that should be in the bronze. |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2017 : 23:51:28
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Yep you made my point, by not making them play each other in pool play then they can continually finish high and that is the point.
If these teams are really that good, then what is the problem with them playing each other in pool play? God forbid a Local team or "Daddy Ball" team make a gold bracket let alone a run deep.
The only two elite teams that should have any privileges should be the Northside Narwhals and ECB Astros. A gold bracket without those two is simply fools gold...
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
They aren't labeled elite because of their gold bracket appearances, they are labeled elite for their wins or second place finishes. Gold bracket is for the best teams to advance. If you have all the best teams play each other in pool play you don't have the best teams advance.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 09:21:03
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It's really not such a big deal under 15 any way. As others have pointed out, some kids really don't know what they have and it's a good chance to get noticed or realize what you need to work on. While you don't want to put your boys in a situation where they get crushed week after week, if they are at least playing competitively it always serves them better to play against good competition. Better to go 0-3 but have them all be less than 5 run losses than to play down and be the ones crushing everyone else. It's important for pitchers to go up against top batters and vice versa. Fielding is at a whole different level against good bats. Development IS the name of the game. However, develop your way up gradually. If you're D3 play D2 don't go straight to D1 tourneys. It's more productive developmentally when they at least feel like they have a chance, imo.
I also think the directors do a pretty good job of spreading the talent out. It makes no sense to put all the top teams in 1 pool and then have only 1 go through with a bunch of much less skilled teams. There is the opportunity for more teams to play more competitvely against some of them this way, and that does happen. And rarely do top teams use their best pitching against weaker opponents in pool play. Like was noted above, it gives their kids who rarely pitch a chance to show what THEY'VE got. No top team is going to throw their ace against a low AAA team or AA in pool play. So really not a lot of "beating up" going on. And if they DO have to put him there to win as the game progresses, then congrats because YOUR boys are officially playing up.
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Edited by - Crazyforbball on 10/31/2017 10:44:13 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 09:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by RUSemiPro
Yep you made my point, by not making them play each other in pool play then they can continually finish high and that is the point.
If these teams are really that good, then what is the problem with them playing each other in pool play? God forbid a Local team or "Daddy Ball" team make a gold bracket let alone a run deep.
The only two elite teams that should have any privileges should be the Northside Narwhals and ECB Astros. A gold bracket without those two is simply fools gold...
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
They aren't labeled elite because of their gold bracket appearances, they are labeled elite for their wins or second place finishes. Gold bracket is for the best teams to advance. If you have all the best teams play each other in pool play you don't have the best teams advance.
They continually finish high because they are good. If you are tired of your kids team not making the gold bracket then you have two choices. 1. Don't play in the events that have the major teams or 2. Have your kid tryout and join one of those teams.
But really this all comes down to the older your kid gets the less cupcake teams are around. Give it a minute. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 11:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It's really not such a big deal under 15 any way. As others have pointed out, some kids really don't know what they have and it's a good chance to get noticed or realize what you need to work on. While you don't want to put your boys in a situation where they get crushed week after week, if they are at least playing competitively it always serves them better to play against good competition. Better to go 0-3 but have them all be less than 5 run losses than to play down and be the ones crushing everyone else. It's important for pitchers to go up against top batters and vice versa. Fielding is at a whole different level against good bats. Development IS the name of the game. However, develop your way up gradually. If you're D3 play D2 don't go straight to D1 tourneys. It's more productive developmentally when they at least feel like they have a chance, imo.
I also think the directors do a pretty good job of spreading the talent out. It makes no sense to put all the top teams in 1 pool and then have only 1 go through with a bunch of much less skilled teams. There is the opportunity for more teams to play more competitvely against some of them this way, and that does happen. And rarely do top teams use their best pitching against weaker opponents in pool play. Like was noted above, it gives their kids who rarely pitch a chance to show what THEY'VE got. No top team is going to throw their ace against a low AAA team or AA in pool play. So really not a lot of "beating up" going on. And if they DO have to put him there to win as the game progresses, then congrats because YOUR boys are officially playing up.
Very good point. Let's say all the best teams were in one pool....then what? Then you have the elite team mercy ruling every team in the bronze bracket, yeah, that would be a blast for all those teams. This would of course be shortly before all the posts about the top team sandbagging to get into the bronze bracket to win the berth to Myrtle Beach. |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 12:21:54
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No not saying purposely match them up in pool everytime either, what I'm saying is don't go out of your way either to separate them from one another. Every now and then make one of the pools exciting and mean something.
Hey look it really doesn't matter to me, We get the schedule we show up, I write checks. All I'm saying is I have no problem with a TD trying to balance a schedule, but playing favorites and giving some of these guys the pick of the litter and even requesting their opponents seems a little self serving.
We will agree to disagree on this one.
But we will ALL agree even Punishers that WOOD IS GOOD. I too would like to see a lot more wood at the younger groups as well, you wont have moon shots, but you will find out who can hit and who can't really quick. Might be good for TD's you likely will get all your innings in before hitting time limits, the games will be cleaner and quicker and no more complaints on player saftey (although someone will think of something)!
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It's really not such a big deal under 15 any way. As others have pointed out, some kids really don't know what they have and it's a good chance to get noticed or realize what you need to work on. While you don't want to put your boys in a situation where they get crushed week after week, if they are at least playing competitively it always serves them better to play against good competition. Better to go 0-3 but have them all be less than 5 run losses than to play down and be the ones crushing everyone else. It's important for pitchers to go up against top batters and vice versa. Fielding is at a whole different level against good bats. Development IS the name of the game. However, develop your way up gradually. If you're D3 play D2 don't go straight to D1 tourneys. It's more productive developmentally when they at least feel like they have a chance, imo.
I also think the directors do a pretty good job of spreading the talent out. It makes no sense to put all the top teams in 1 pool and then have only 1 go through with a bunch of much less skilled teams. There is the opportunity for more teams to play more competitvely against some of them this way, and that does happen. And rarely do top teams use their best pitching against weaker opponents in pool play. Like was noted above, it gives their kids who rarely pitch a chance to show what THEY'VE got. No top team is going to throw their ace against a low AAA team or AA in pool play. So really not a lot of "beating up" going on. And if they DO have to put him there to win as the game progresses, then congrats because YOUR boys are officially playing up.
Very good point. Let's say all the best teams were in one pool....then what? Then you have the elite team mercy ruling every team in the bronze bracket, yeah, that would be a blast for all those teams. This would of course be shortly before all the posts about the top team sandbagging to get into the bronze bracket to win the berth to Myrtle Beach.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 15:08:47
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| That I agree with semipro! And yes, once the real season gets going certain teams DO get the opponents/times/locations they want no doubt about it, and certain teams do get the deck stacked to make sure they go through...i.e. the stud teams don't usually get the high AAA in pool that just might knock them out or make them burn good pitching. No doubt about it. But I was talking mainly about the cluster with a huge talent spread that is fall ball. And yes! Wood! I've said it time and again here, doesn't anyone remember the wood bat tourneys when we were 9-10 And how great they were..and usually my comment is the last one on that topic...lol |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 10/31/2017 17:14:23 |
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Gatravelbaseball
56 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2017 : 15:31:13
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When most people think of this:
"a TD trying to balance a schedule"
They're going to think of a TD doing exactly what they generally do (and should do), which is to set it up so the top teams aren't knocking each other out in pool play. That's what makes the most sense, for all the reasons cited by others above.
quote:
Originally posted by RUSemiPro
All I'm saying is I have no problem with a TD trying to balance a schedule, but playing favorites and giving some of these guys the pick of the litter and even requesting their opponents seems a little self serving.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It's really not such a big deal under 15 any way. As others have pointed out, some kids really don't know what they have and it's a good chance to get noticed or realize what you need to work on. While you don't want to put your boys in a situation where they get crushed week after week, if they are at least playing competitively it always serves them better to play against good competition. Better to go 0-3 but have them all be less than 5 run losses than to play down and be the ones crushing everyone else. It's important for pitchers to go up against top batters and vice versa. Fielding is at a whole different level against good bats. Development IS the name of the game. However, develop your way up gradually. If you're D3 play D2 don't go straight to D1 tourneys. It's more productive developmentally when they at least feel like they have a chance, imo.
I also think the directors do a pretty good job of spreading the talent out. It makes no sense to put all the top teams in 1 pool and then have only 1 go through with a bunch of much less skilled teams. There is the opportunity for more teams to play more competitvely against some of them this way, and that does happen. And rarely do top teams use their best pitching against weaker opponents in pool play. Like was noted above, it gives their kids who rarely pitch a chance to show what THEY'VE got. No top team is going to throw their ace against a low AAA team or AA in pool play. So really not a lot of "beating up" going on. And if they DO have to put him there to win as the game progresses, then congrats because YOUR boys are officially playing up.
Very good point. Let's say all the best teams were in one pool....then what? Then you have the elite team mercy ruling every team in the bronze bracket, yeah, that would be a blast for all those teams. This would of course be shortly before all the posts about the top team sandbagging to get into the bronze bracket to win the berth to Myrtle Beach.
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PSA - Ease his pain
