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MadSkills
128 Posts |
 Posted - 04/08/2010 : 08:59:36
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If you had to cut a player for arguing with the coaches, bouncing checks and being a bad seed, what would you tell prospective coaches if they called you asking about them?
Just heard of a family that has been let go from their 4th team in less then 2 years and most have been by the teams choice. Now, the kid is no angel himself and is an average ball player.
The ironic part is, the parents don't think they did anything wrong and can't understand why "lil" Johnny is being blacklisted.
Thoughts??? |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 09:40:59
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| There is always bad apples in every bunch. That being said, I would never blacklist a child or family. We all have skeletons in our closets! :) |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 10:05:09
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| i recommend being honest..if you have to post this question i would also question your motive |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 10:18:40
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| I would be careful in giving out the dirty little details....but at the same time you can share buyer beware in general. |
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ecbinsider
318 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 10:29:02
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If I were a coach, I would appreciate any other coaches letting me know of any potential "trouble". If I knew and still decided to take them on then that my mistake.
I hear coaches talk about players good enough to make certain teams but didn't because of their parents, they need to understand this effects whether or not their child gets offers from teams to join them. The funny part is when a team takes on a player/family that is trouble because a kid is too good to pass up, wonder how that's working for them now? |
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HOTHAND
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 11:11:16
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| As a Head Coach-We all talk. We know who the bad apples are. Sad part is that there is always some team hurting bad enough to take them. As the player gets older, they wear out their welcome and move on to something else. Yes, those families NEVER did anything wrong! |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 11:27:06
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I am admittedly old school and durn proud of it
Going from that , yes you tell the truth to the coach who asks for a reference why would you not
How would you like to be on the other end of that and be lied to?
Our society is based even today on trust so if you are asked to tell the truth you do it, everyones life is easier case closed.
The Mom n Dad are probably as bad as the kid maybe dont know right from wrong maybe dont care just so long as little Johnny gets his stardom ,theirs that kind of mentality
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MadSkills
128 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 11:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
i recommend being honest..if you have to post this question i would also question your motive
I have no motive for posting this question and I'm not involved with this team or player in question at all. Looking to get feedback that's all.. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 12:59:45
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Maybe need to separate the two issues it sounds like your dealing with. I've coached youth athletics for many years. I've experienced "troubled" kids and watched them turn into great kids and great kids turn into "troubled" kids. Doesn't seem to be a "one size fits all" scenario. I'd be more prone to try and set some parameters with the kid and work with him regarding team sports. You may end up being the most stable influence the kid ever has in his life. That should be what us coaches are there for. Regarding the lads skill level, I'm not sure that has any relevance in the dialogue ?
Regarding the parents...is it just money issues or are their other issues ? Many parents in today's climate have money issues. Check into scholarships that most programs have these days. If it's more than a money issue, that's a horse of a different color. Ill behaved parents can totally ruin a child's youth sports experience. However, I think you should segregate the sentiments regarding a kids parents from your sentiments from the kid. That's not to say you still can't have a negative perspective of both, but they should be viewed independently don't you think ?
I guess I'm an eternal optimist and what we are discussing is the FUTURE of our Country, our youth. We should try and do everything within our power to offer them a positive experience....even when it's sometimes painful for us coaches.
I'm not being judgmental, cause I certainly don't know all the facts but I am passionate about our youth and our future. I applaud you for coaching and influencing our youth....I may be getting old and soft in my approach but the older I get, the more I realize how important we coaches, teachers and adults are in influencing our youth and our future.
quote:
Originally posted by MadSkills
If you had to cut a player for arguing with the coaches, bouncing checks and being a bad seed, what would you tell prospective coaches if they called you asking about them?
Just heard of a family that has been let go from their 4th team in less then 2 years and most have been by the teams choice. Now, the kid is no angel himself and is an average ball player.
The ironic part is, the parents don't think they did anything wrong and can't understand why "lil" Johnny is being blacklisted.
Thoughts???
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 14:33:05
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Couple of years ago, we decided to take a kid that had the reputation of being arrogant and hot headed. Dad had the reputation of being a PITA. It actually turned out well. The dad was not shy about questioning play time and other issues. However, the coach took the time to explain to him why we did what we did and the dad never had a problem. Kid was a talker. Some kids really liked him, others just didn't gell well with him. However, it was more of a personality type thing. In my book, he was a leader. He would say things to get the team going, go talk to the pitcher or other players and was generally a good kid. Me and the head coach worked with him on some things and it turned out to be a good experience. That kid is playing on a rival HS team now and it is always good to run into him. Very nice and pleasant to be around.
Hot hand is right, coaches talk and the rumor mill is out there. However, sometimes if the coach talks to everyone involved and feels like he can make a difference and the parents and kid seem willing to work things out, it may be worth the risk. This is just one positive story, there are probably just as many that didn't work out. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 09:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
i recommend being honest..if you have to post this question i would also question your motive
I have to agree with you. If this question is having to be posted there are other motives. The poster has 9 post so far and 2 of them are on this thread.
I have seen situations like this and sometimes its the coaches who have the axe to grid. Most coaches dont like to be questioned. However some of them should be questioned because of their lack of knowledge of baseball. So sometimes that parent is tagged as a bad seed because they questioned the so called team authority. I have also seen kids leave their team and because the coach is ticked off about it. He then decides to tag a kid or his parents as bad seeds.
I have also seen parents have axes to grid with other parents because it threatens their little Johnny and his playing time when a new kid joins the team or is being considered for a new team. So I have seen this type tool used by trying to tag a kid or their parents as bad seeds.
Sometimes parents and kids are just bad seeds. However most of the time that I have seen parents tagged this way is because of several different types of circumstances. They speak up because of daddy ball, they get upset because of poor coaching decisions, they feel little Johnny is better than what he really is, they ride their kid hard and other parents dont like it or they just dont play the political game we all have come to love that we call travel ball 
Team chemistry is important. What may be the right chemistry for you, may not be the right one for me. Every kid deserves a chance and no one has the right in my humble opinion to try and blacklist any player or parent. This issue again in my opinion is easy to address and most teams dont do this. When a new player joins a team there needs to be a set of team guidelines that must be disclosed before a new player joins. This will let that player and parent know upfront what is expected of them and their player along with the consequences if they break those rules . Plus I also think parents jump to teams too quickly before really doing any due diligence on the coaches and even the other team parents. This is the reason I personally like to guest play with teams before joining. You get to see first hand what the team chemistry is.
Now the last opinion I will offer pertaining to this subject is one of a legal matter. The person you might blacklist or try to could end up hauling your backside to court. Now again does this seem a little drastic, yes!! but is it worth taking that chance. Whether someone has a legal right to do so is besides the point. The point is, it could end up costing those who do feel a need to give their bad opinion on a player or their parents thousands of dollars in legal fees and maybe even a court judgement against you.
There are always two sides to every story and before any coach or team jumps the gun on a player or parent they should form their own opinions and take what you hear with a grain of salt.
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therealist
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 11:19:40
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| bballman-glad to see another side of this issue. Most of your top performers in any field(ballplayers,doctors,salesman) are PITA. It takes the right type of coach/leader to harness their talent and make it work. As bballman said most of these kids are aggressive at an early age and can be leaders. You just have to teach them the right way to lead. As far as the parents, a successful proven coach can give guidelines for the parents to meet. If they want to be part of the team, then this is what must be done. If neither parent or child can follow rules then the coach must remove them no matter how talented the player may be. |
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MadSkills
128 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 12:39:24
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G-Man,
You caught me red handed, I'm the coach and I have an ax to grind with the player! NOT. Let's get one thing straight, the original question had to do with what you do in this situation if asked by another coach. This goes on after the season is over as well and even for the families who gave their team no issues so let's not assume someone has an agenda.
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 13:38:55
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I have had Managers call me asking about players and all I did was tell the truth and offer my opinion. I am sure I have had players/families checking up on me as well.
It’s really easy to find out what you need to know to make the right decision. I usually check the USSSA roster and listen to what people are saying. We all like to think that we can change players with a change of scenery, (sometimes we can; sometimes not).
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 14:00:09
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| What does PITA mean? |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 14:23:32
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Madskills,
With any messageboard, there are always people who think there are alterior motives for questioning things.
I get asked about players all the time. About as much as I do about teams.
My recommendation is to answer however you would if they were standing there with you. Make sure not to only focus on the negative, but share any positive traits. Those positive traits may overshadow, for that particular coach, the negative ones.
For example:
Say you have a kid that is a really good athlete, strong arm, and swings the bat well. He also has issues with getting to practice on time, his parents have not always held up to their financial obligations with the teams they are on, and when the team struggles, he gets down and pouts in the dugout, and says "We stink, we're going to lose."
Now, for several coaches he has played with, the negatives were enough to release him, mid-season, or not ask him back next season.
If I were asked about him, I would say:
He is a really good athlete, strong arm, and swings the bat well. He has the potential to be an impact player on the team. He probably needs to be on a team where he has strong athletes around him where he does not feel like he has to carry the team. If you are interested, you may need to make sure you have talked through their transportation and financial situations as they have had some issues with that in the past. It's worth discussing up front. Take a look and assess for yourself. The only mistake a coach can really make is taking references as the complete decision making point and not seeing and talking for himself. |
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bstand
56 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 14:55:35
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MadSkills,
I think the issue folks are having is in the delivery and content of your question. It is one thing to ask a hypothetical question to prompt some spirited baseball conversation, but it is quite another to post the question and indicate that it is in reference to a particular, real-life family/situation. The feedback you are looking for would be provided using generic/hypothetical situations.
Having said that, I agree with a fellow poster that honesty is always the best policy, as long as it is unbiased honesty. One can be honest, and still omit key info or slant the delivery so that it fits their own agenda. There are few times that I can think of in my coaching experience, where both sides of a bad situation are 100% innocent. We are trying to teach our players, among other things, to persevere and not give up in the face of adversity. What kind of example do we set as coaches if we kick players to the curb because everything isn't smooth and easy? |
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michaelp
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 10:38:51
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| G-man I am having a hard time swallowing your comment about being sued for giving an opinion. Alter-ego is once again spot on. Describe the player/family as if they were standing there. I really do not consider it taking a chance to give my thoughts. |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 11:07:18
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Pita.....Pain in the Arse!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by JCB
What does PITA mean?
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Master C
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 11:48:04
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Everyones comments make sense. Though sometimes it's not the player or the parents. I know parents that have been on teams in the past that the coaching and financial keepers of the teams monies can't be explained. Why is that? Is their something to hide? You can't have parents and players commiting to teams and building relationships and not being able to ask questions. Yes! in today's economy parents have the right to ask questions. Most of us are in travel ball for the same reasons. It takes alot of time/effort/money to build a strong foundation. It definately can be done. Let the kids play and as far as the parents go....Deal with it coaches!Don't penalize the player because of a prior issue with the parents. That's the past move on. That family may have a better experience with the new baseball team. Maybe things are better organized and discussed. Everyone on the team should be a TEAM! Good Luck to all Travel Ball teams........... |
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playhard
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 17:42:36
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| Coaches should be careful doing this. I had a coach do my son like this last year and it got back to me. The coach still seen me emails and want my son to play for him, but he put out that he had a BA and my son will not say a word unless you talk to him. Now I can have a BA sometime lol, just not right to label kids. Just check to see how many teams he play with in a year there a problem somewhere. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 12:27:51
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quote:
Originally posted by playhard
Coaches should be careful doing this. I had a coach do my son like this last year and it got back to me. The coach still seen me emails and want my son to play for him, but he put out that he had a BA and my son will not say a word unless you talk to him. Now I can have a BA sometime lol, just not right to label kids. Just check to see how many teams he play with in a year there a problem somewhere.
So whats the bad rap on not speaking unless spoken to ?
This is a behavior I should have learned much much earlier in life ;-)
And now its a problem if a boy or young man acts this way? |
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mrbama31
252 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2010 : 13:36:10
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Clear and precise communication from the teams manager/coach in regard to ALL things involved can and will make a huge difference for all the families involved....especially the "high maintenance" ones. Communicate, communicate, and communicate....send emails,text,have parent meetings,send out financial statements,...sounds like a lot of work and it is but it will help your team run smoothly and reduce misunderstandings that can tear a team apart from the inside.
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Edited by - mrbama31 on 04/11/2010 17:16:30 |
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kingofthehill
40 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 12:05:58
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| I have been the dad with the reputation. The bad one. I can be loud. I have some coins in my pocket.I dress sort of flashy. Remember I am the guy that got banded from the park for arguing with the lady at the concession stand that short changed me. I did not play sports growing up as a kid because i was obese and my knees hurt. I spent a lot of weekends at home watch MTV and eating Cheetoes. .So it was easy for me to get the wrong idea about sports. My kid has really turned in a really good player. I have recently moved to Florida from Cincy and have had a new start for my kid. My son had a hard time finding a team all the time because of me. That was a hard pill to swollow. I thought I was helping him by being tough on coaches. However, I learned that I was just being hard on the boy. And what fixed me was.......a coach that was honest with me and the skills of my son. Not a bunch of tap dancing, not a bunch of emails, not a bunch of telling me what I wanted to hear. Just good ole honesty. Quote"your kid can play. He would be our #1 and bat 3rd. But you are an arse". And you are killing him with certain teams with your behavior." So now, I write my checks to the team, stand away from the dugouts and if I have an axe to grind I keep my mouth shut and let the coach, coach. As long as the coach is not abusive and the boy is having fun and improving I am happy. Now my boy has somewhere to play every weekend and he is getting better. Isn't that the goal. |
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GeorgiaPeach
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 15:11:45
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| You need to be very careful when asking for references. Many times when a kid leaves, the coach takes it personal and will fabricate lies to try and keep the kid from joining a better team /situation. Don't think for a minute that some coaches would not do this because I have had it happen to me. Upfront talks with the kid and parents about what the new coach expects and demands is the best route. I have been around more incompetent "daddy ball" coaches than I have bad kids and parents. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 15:40:14
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Great post king. I'm not saying that parents should never say anything at anytime, but for you to recognize what was going on and make some changes says a lot about your character.
Unfortunately, there are some parents out there like you used to be and it does affect the kids at times. Sad, but true. |
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Player/Family References
