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Boys02
6 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2017 : 14:57:03
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| I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ? |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2017 : 18:03:55
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| nothing i doubt..directors hardly care and you have to pay a $300 protest fee |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 07:18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
nothing i doubt..directors hardly care and you have to pay a $300 protest fee
Agree. Very little if anything. First, your coach would have to have the stones to question it as well as fork up the protest fee with what proof? Even on top of that unless it is a USSSA tournament, nothing would happen except for a potential forfeit and maybe a nod and a wink, to not do that again.
We were in a Grand Slam tournament earlier in the year where a team was purposely using the Zero Dark CF Zen to circumvent the Ban and the tournament director was either incompetent or didn't care.
So Do teams cheat? Yes, there will always be someone trying to gain an advantage or Game the system.
Do Tournament's Care. Not until it starts to hurt their wallet, look youth travel baseball and youth sports in general is big business. It's about the money, not the kindness of their heart or love of the game.
That kid playing in a lower group, is not going to get any better and what example are the parents setting? Personally, I wouldn't worry unless it is a saftey issue. Anything between 8U and 15U is a crap shoot and has to do with who hits puberty and their growth spurt first and less on natural skill and talent especially with the smaller field size. As you get older 205 ft pop flys are not Home Runs and those players will eventually be weeded out.
It's wrong but not a whole lot you can do about it, leave it up to your coaches, it's on them to do their job and to do what is best to protect their team. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 07:32:37
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| I remember having to supply my kids birth certificate even for pick up games...do they not do that anymore? |
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 08:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade). |
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tellit
97 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 09:12:13
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[quote]Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
[/quote
Rules have changed, 15u kids can play 14u if they are in 8th grade and so fourth. |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 10:10:26
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What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 10:47:41
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
Play your grade is why it matters, why play down? Unless you plan to play down a grade during HS too, then sure have at it. |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 11:25:59
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Personally, I don't think it matters to HS if a kid desires to play for his school. Otherwise, it don't matter at all. If the cutoff is 5/1 then May/June birthdays are well within their rights to play that age group. Otherwise, they should change the date to 9/1 to mandate kids play with their respective grade. quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
Play your grade is why it matters, why play down? Unless you plan to play down a grade during HS too, then sure have at it.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 11:43:27
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quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
Play your grade is why it matters, why play down? Unless you plan to play down a grade during HS too, then sure have at it.
Why play down? Off the top of my head:
1. Those are the people he has always played with and against, those are the kids and families he has created bonds with. It's fun to say hi to the kid playing 1B that you played with at 9u.
2. In the recruiting world as it is at this moment the recruiters don't care if you are "playing down", they care how you are playing.
3. A high school team could have 14u-19u on it...I don't understand your point. |
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 11:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
Play your grade is why it matters, why play down? Unless you plan to play down a grade during HS too, then sure have at it.
Why play down? Off the top of my head:
1. Those are the people he has always played with and against, those are the kids and families he has created bonds with. It's fun to say hi to the kid playing 1B that you played with at 9u.
2. In the recruiting world as it is at this moment the recruiters don't care if you are "playing down", they care how you are playing.
3. A high school team could have 14u-19u on it...I don't understand your point.
In HS do you want to be in 10th grade playing on 9th grade team? 11th grade playing JV? That's my point, stay on the same playing level as your grade, don't play down to try to win games and be a stud against younger kids. They do the same thing in football and basketball too, it's not just a baseball thing. |
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tbaillie2
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 13:22:01
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I don't think it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Sure there are folks who skirt, or outright cheat, the system. That said, if your kid is competing, progressing, and enjoying what they are doing don't worry about what others do.
Or just walk up and offer the protest fee (w/o drama or bringing attention to yourself) and call them on it.
I have done it, and I've had it done "to us" (which we enjoyed sending our kid who was 2 years younger to the director w/ file of birth certs to be reviewed).
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
What's wrong with a kid with a May/June birthday playing with his "age" group? He will either be the youngest in the "older" age group or one of the oldest in his assigned age group. Either way, the kid will seem out of place. If the kid is not huge for his age, why does it matter?
quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
I know a kid that is playing a year under his real age group. What happens when he gets caught? Will he be banned from playing travel ?
Don't waste your time many people do this, and it's not really much different imo than the May and June birthday crew who use the bogus April 30 control date to be able to play down a grade (for example made 11 in May and is in 5th grade but plays down in 10u/4th grade).
Play your grade is why it matters, why play down? Unless you plan to play down a grade during HS too, then sure have at it.
Why play down? Off the top of my head:
1. Those are the people he has always played with and against, those are the kids and families he has created bonds with. It's fun to say hi to the kid playing 1B that you played with at 9u.
2. In the recruiting world as it is at this moment the recruiters don't care if you are "playing down", they care how you are playing.
3. A high school team could have 14u-19u on it...I don't understand your point.
In HS do you want to be in 10th grade playing on 9th grade team? 11th grade playing JV? That's my point, stay on the same playing level as your grade, don't play down to try to win games and be a stud against younger kids. They do the same thing in football and basketball too, it's not just a baseball thing.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 13:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Why play down? Off the top of my head:
1. Those are the people he has always played with and against, those are the kids and families he has created bonds with. It's fun to say hi to the kid playing 1B that you played with at 9u.
2. In the recruiting world as it is at this moment the recruiters don't care if you are "playing down", they care how you are playing.
3. A high school team could have 14u-19u on it...I don't understand your point.
In HS do you want to be in 10th grade playing on 9th grade team? 11th grade playing JV? That's my point, stay on the same playing level as your grade, don't play down to try to win games and be a stud against younger kids. They do the same thing in football and basketball too, it's not just a baseball thing.
You mean kids your own age? Anyone born between May 1 and August 31 in GA can "play down", that's 4 months out of the year. We aren't talking about a month or a few weeks, that is a 1/3 of the year.
Let's look at some rosters:
14u 643 Cougars: 2021 = 10, 2020 = 7 (41% are 9th graders)
14u ECB Atros: 2022 = 1, 2021 =10, 2020 =5 (31% are 9th graders)
14u Team Halo: 2021 = 11, 2020 = 7 (38% are 9th graders)
Seems to go along with 1/3 of the team would be in 9th grade based on their birthdays.
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panther
38 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2017 : 17:28:51
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| the only ages it matters is 8th grade. I think it is great the jv and a few varsity pitchers play down and let my 8th grader face them. Only helps him for next season. There is a huge difference in maturity in that grade year between 8th and 9th grade. All kids grow up eventually just learn the skills. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 07:36:55
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| Just hold your kid back in 2nd grade so he can be the best in high school and go nowhere as a result of it but your ego will swell |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 10:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by whits23
Just hold your kid back in 2nd grade so he can be the best in high school and go nowhere as a result of it but your ego will swell
I know that is sarcastic, but it is sad that there are some that actually do that (Red Shirting). My kid is undersized, and actually if he had the opportunity to play up and could hang, he would do that, why hold someone back? I don't get it at all. You will get better if you are pushed to get better, play the best competition you can play. |
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baseball713
60 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 14:42:03
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| My son is currently undersized for his age. His birthday is on Oct. He is studying up (1 grade higher than his age group) so he is even more undersized for his current grade level. He is "playing down" with his age group and not playing with his grade level. I care more about pushing him academically. We made the decision for him to study up without consideration of the impact to athletics. Next to academics, the next thing I care about is for him to enjoy playing the game. Hence, I am playing him with his age group rather than his grade level. If he gets to a point where he has to switch to playing grade level and he can't keep up and quit the game, it's not the end of the world. I've known people who held their kids back academically with athletics success in mind. I don't understand it. I've also known people who worries too much about pushing their kids athletically, taking him away from kids his age and his friends, moving him from team to team, playing him up with older teams without regards to his ability to fit in socially. I also don't understand that. |
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Boys02
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 16:14:54
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| This kid does have a fake bc so it's 1 age group down. |
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RUSemiPro
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 16:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Boys02
This kid does have a fake bc so it's 1 age group down.
What Age Group is he playing? |
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Boys02
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2017 : 18:53:11
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| He is playing 12u |
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crazy4bb
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2017 : 10:47:20
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Even worse when it is because of the coaches. Coach took money from kids to play 15U baseball, He didn't have enough for a 15U team, so instead of refunding their money he plays them with his 14U team and tells them its no big deal. The kids would gladly play 15U but now have no team and have spent the money!
What happens when a kid gets hurt? If you are playing by the rules then its an accident. If you are playing or coaching illegally and someone get injured then I would assume there is a good amount of Liability involved???
Bottom line - Rules were put there for a reason, simply follow them. Don't set the example of breaking rules simply for convenience is OK. What rules will be broken next? These are still impressionable kids and we need to be careful what we teach them. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2017 : 14:06:39
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My experience is the better major teams from 11U and up always had more May birthday kids than the others. When they changed the birthdays that messed things up. I wish they would go by the date schools use to be eligible or grade level or go to the January 1 date they talked about doing a few years ago.
At 15U and up, if it were me and the older kid was pitching against us, I would be happy to see the better older talented player. Challenges the kids. Now if they are winning every tournament because of this kid and the age is say below 14 then I have a problem with it. PG as others have said don't care about birthdates it's more grade level or grade you could be in I guess. I have seen many re classified a grade younger even though they are going to graduate on time? That I do not get unless you are guaranteeing your son to red shirt his first year in college or something?
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2017 : 14:46:49
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| At the end of the day, 1 kid is not going to win or lose games for a team. MAYBE if he's a pitcher that can go the distance. But it's been my experience that teams who cheat, or bring in ringers may go further, but rarely win. You said it is 12U ... at 12U the bigger, stronger kids can make a difference but they are often "legally" playing down and esp at that age probably want to go to cooperstown with the same kids they've been playing with since rec ball. At 13U the studs with the iffy birthdays will often move up to grade level so don't sweat it! |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 10/05/2017 15:01:56 |
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tellit
97 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2017 : 16:02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
At the end of the day, 1 kid is not going to win or lose games for a team. MAYBE if he's a pitcher that can go the distance. But it's been my experience that teams who cheat, or bring in ringers may go further, but rarely win. You said it is 12U ... at 12U the bigger, stronger kids can make a difference but they are often "legally" playing down and esp at that age probably want to go to cooperstown with the same kids they've been playing with since rec ball. At 13U the studs with the iffy birthdays will often move up to grade level so don't sweat it!
Well said, after 12u it works itself out. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2017 : 08:56:23
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| I don't see a problem with 14u and 15u playing together, as long as they are playing 15u. I think they call that "The 9th grade team" in high school :- ) |
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crazy4bb
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2017 : 11:27:11
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CaCo
Seems like a simple solution to just play 15U, I suspect most coaches are not as smart as you however.(or they just don't care about rules if it affects their paycheck)
In most cases, I agree the age gap is not a big deal. Following rules is a big deal. |
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Wrong age bracket
