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Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

There is some data to support the idea that big academies with multiple teams might just string you along in the younger ages...I hate to pick on ECB again but it has the most available data online. The facts are ECB has:

13u: 6 teams
14u: 7 teams
15u: 8 teams
16u: 11 teams (The year of, OMG my kid hasn't gotten a full scholarship offer I MUST get him to ECB now before it's too late)
17u: 5 teams (The year of, what do you mean there isn't a place at ECB for my son he's been here since 9u!)

It looks like a clear pattern to me.

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Originally posted by 3sondad

Back to Red-flags ... Here are my biggest red flags:

ONE: If a 14U, 15U ,16U and 18U team from a Big organization tells you they have the blessings from "god" to be the second team out of the facility and their team will get special treatment on field time and indoor workouts. But the talent you see at tryouts or workouts for that team does not match what you are being told. That is NOT how that "big" organization has ever ran. One year we went to three "private" tryouts and all three said the same thing about being the number 2 team (or even the "#2 organization within the organization", because they had teams at multiple age groups).

TWO: "Coaches" that say they got "johnny, mikey, pete", etc drafted or DI scholarships (Basically implying that if it were not for ME the kid would not be playing ball where he js paying). If a coach has the gall to tell you "He got the kid drafted or a scholarship" should be a warning in itself. If you are lucky like I was and happen to know the kids they are talking about, you will realize how full of B$ these guys are. I was lucky in the fact I had an older boy play ball with a lot of the kids mentioned.

Good luck to those still looking for teams.

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Originally posted by Cajunjeep


There are several that have posted on here about bad experiences. Why not name the academy/team so everyone else can be made aware?

Also playing experience does not necessarily translate into coaching ability or experience.

Some red flags for us were:
1) a large part of the team not returning,
2) parents of the current team - watch how they interact(or not) with the coach and players.
3) No real plan at the tryout. coaches just winging it.
4) Coaches that dont want to discuss costs.
5 Coaches that talk about how much they won the previous season, and not how much better the players became.

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Originally posted by Renegade44

<<<The kids that are on those 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are the same kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations that are NOT coached by Dad's since they were 12U. I knowthis as fact because I have witnessed it here. Another interesting thing, concerning wins, the majority those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins, they are interested in putting kids under pressure to perform in clutch situations, even when it is apparent that it is going to cost you a win. I have also witnessed this. That is true development, and it is worth every penny, IMHO.>

Lets go deeper into this statement:

The kids that are on the academy topA 16 / 17 / 18 year old teams are a very few select kids who worked their tails off to stay in the top organizations since 12U, otherwise they have been shuffled to the B,C,D,E, or F academy team. Those few select kids who worked their tails off are now on what is best described as a super regional academy team joined by the best athletes and arms the academy can find or personally recruit. The money/time/effort you paid as a hard working 12 to 14u player has zero bearing at 16/17/18 top A team selection time.

The majority of those 12U to 14U top teams that have paid coaches aren't interested in wins. Exactly. Shift the focus to development. You can't win consistently when your costs LIMIT the pool of available talent. Talent wins, but costs LIMIT your roster to only those who can pay plus maybe a few select players who have such talent that their costs are reduced or otherwise offset. (Hint: go re-read the first paragraph!) You can focus on development all you want, but if your costs exceed the level the talent can or will pay, you are not going to win. To change the measurement of success, you fall back on development and dreams/promises of future wins to come after more ($$$$) development.

Meanwhile, you've been sold a dream, you quite possibly are out multiple thousands of dollars per year. Fast forward to age 16/17/18 and you are "all in" financially while playing on the C team from the academy.

Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.

What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.

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Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.

What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.

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Originally posted by sebaseball

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Meanwhile the select few (discussed at the beginning here) and the recruited regional talent on the A team are playing at low cost (or even NO COST). All done on the profit you provided the academy all these years and continue to do so thru the B,C,D,E,F teams at these older ages.

What does the academy get out of this setup? The A team is marketing/advertising and helps pave the way to sell dreams to the lesser player or bring in new players for the lesser teams. Especially at the younger more profitable ages.

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I can speak to this very fact as I personally know of three play players in our HS program that have been playing for an organization the last two years who paid $0 to play. It's one of the organizations that is selling it's name to various facilities all over the state. I'm not saying that is a bad thing or wrong; business is business. But, clearly, having their flagship team perform very well is used as a loss-leader to attract more business and expand the brand. If you "can play", there is a different financial set of rules for you. But, this isn't a new phenomena; it's been this way since competitive sports started.

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Originally posted by turntwo

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Originally posted by Cajunjeep


There are several that have posted on here about bad experiences. Why not name the academy/team so everyone else can be made aware?

Also playing experience does not necessarily translate into coaching ability or experience.

Some red flags for us were:
1) a large part of the team not returning,
2) parents of the current team - watch how they interact(or not) with the coach and players.
3) No real plan at the tryout. coaches just winging it.
4) Coaches that dont want to discuss costs.
5 Coaches that talk about how much they won the previous season, and not how much better the players became.

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Love your list!!!! That's 5 GREAT red flags, for sure!

And trying to 'call out' to 'inform' others of the Academy or team would never get posted. Leaves TOO much room for 'opinion'. Is a poster miffed because he THOUGHT he heard a cost figure, and it was wrong? Or was he truly lied to. No one would ever know the truth. Even with 'bait and switch', unless things are IN WRITING and MULTIPLE people can confirm it didn't happen, or wasn't followed through with, then maybe.

I personally heard of an organization (newer, Milton area), that charged $2K - $3K per player from 11U on up. Yet never ONCE provided a budget, even when requested multiple times. Crazy.

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Originally posted by Crazyforbball

ECB doesn't "create" youth teams outside of their academy teams as far as I know, at least 14 and under. All those youth teams are typically brought by coaches TO east cobb. Coach so and so, who coached the allstar youth team, brings this team to ecb and wants to play out of there as whatever.. gizmos, strikers, whatever name isn't already taken. ECB is a business and agrees to have that team come on board. They don't oversee the budget of that team, or do any decision making for them as far as tournaments, players, coaching, etc. So if anyone is stringing players along its the individual coaches not ECB.

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Originally posted by Crazyforbball

Caco3 you are absolutely right. And I would say the part about being there at 9 has no bearing on 17 is absolutely true for all academies, large and small. The only slight advantage might be that some of the coaches know what you've actually got if you don't show well at a tryout, and that is only a SLIGHT advantage. At some point the kid has to make the cut. But ALL the academies are going to expect you to pay if you do make the cut. I don't know about the 18U showcase team, but for the rest, at all ages, yes. If, after years of playing at an Academy, your kid still doesn't make the cut for the team you have your eye on, and you are hanging around playing on the "d,e or f' team you are probably wasting your money. Bottom line, if your kid is a true stud/D1 prospect I would think he will be found, no matter if he's playing on the xyz team or the big academy team. As long as he's playing on a competitve team against top competition at PG or similar he will be noticed. No sense blaming the academy. Again, if you feel ripped off you probably needed to do more research on what you signed up for. There are tons of smaller, less expensive groups that field really great teams. From the perspective of people who post on here, there are plenty of studs who got recruited without ever playing on one of said academy teams. I don't have a 17 or 18 year old so I don't know but even with a younger kid it's the same and every year you have to make it. You might grow to a huge monster you might stay a little shrimp. As far as being lied to, you can only be sold what you're willing to buy. Like any business transaction it's buyer beware. There are no lemon laws for baseball. It sounds like you had a bad experience renegade, but I think there are plenty of places you can go to find (or have already hopefully found) a great option where your son can get what he's looking for.

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Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

There is some data to support the idea that big academies with multiple teams might just string you along in the younger ages...I hate to pick on ECB again but it has the most available data online. The facts are ECB has:

13u: 6 teams
14u: 7 teams
15u: 8 teams
16u: 11 teams (The year of, OMG my kid hasn't gotten a full scholarship offer I MUST get him to ECB now before it's too late)
17u: 5 teams (The year of, what do you mean there isn't a place at ECB for my son he's been here since 9u!)

It looks like a clear pattern to me.

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Originally posted by CaCO3Girl

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Originally posted by Crazyforbball

Caco3 you are absolutely right. And I would say the part about being there at 9 has no bearing on 17 is absolutely true for all academies, large and small. The only slight advantage might be that some of the coaches know what you've actually got if you don't show well at a tryout, and that is only a SLIGHT advantage. At some point the kid has to make the cut. But ALL the academies are going to expect you to pay if you do make the cut. I don't know about the 18U showcase team, but for the rest, at all ages, yes. If, after years of playing at an Academy, your kid still doesn't make the cut for the team you have your eye on, and you are hanging around playing on the "d,e or f' team you are probably wasting your money. Bottom line, if your kid is a true stud/D1 prospect I would think he will be found, no matter if he's playing on the xyz team or the big academy team. As long as he's playing on a competitve team against top competition at PG or similar he will be noticed. No sense blaming the academy. Again, if you feel ripped off you probably needed to do more research on what you signed up for. There are tons of smaller, less expensive groups that field really great teams. From the perspective of people who post on here, there are plenty of studs who got recruited without ever playing on one of said academy teams. I don't have a 17 or 18 year old so I don't know but even with a younger kid it's the same and every year you have to make it. You might grow to a huge monster you might stay a little shrimp. As far as being lied to, you can only be sold what you're willing to buy. Like any business transaction it's buyer beware. There are no lemon laws for baseball. It sounds like you had a bad experience renegade, but I think there are plenty of places you can go to find (or have already hopefully found) a great option where your son can get what he's looking for.

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With what I highlighted here is my glitch...you are assuming the top dog team coach saw my mailman's team of 10...I sincerely doubt they played each other.

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Originally posted by CaCO3Girl


With what I highlighted here is my glitch...you are assuming the top dog team coach saw my mailman's team of 10...I sincerely doubt they played each other.

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