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unitedballers
29 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2016 : 12:04:58
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Could you imagine these same parents, if their kid were in the Scripps National Spelling Bee? They would probably yell out letters from the crowd while shaking the seat in front of them!
The car ride home would sound like this - How did you not remember that the "z" in "Laissez-faire" was silent? We practiced that & practiced & practiced! And you needed to step closer to the microphone...what were you thinking and on national TV and in front of all my friends...and OMG, enunciate your words, geez, what's wrong with you kid! You are officially grounded from seeing your study groups until we right this ship! LOL!!!!!!
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 12:31:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
What's wrong with shorts to a tryout? (Assuming no sliding) Is it disrespectful? Do pants make you run faster? Hit further? Throw harder? Field better? I don't think so. To me, either the kid has the ability or not. If he has a +fastball you're not taking him because he's in shorts? He's hitting seeds to he gaps, and shows power to all fields with the bat--- BUT he's in shorts, not taking him? The attire doesn't make the ballplayer...
My son went to a high school workout where several Major players showed up in shorts...granted it was labeled as a workout and it may have been acceptable attire, it wasn't clear what kind of workout it would be. It didn't go well for the shorts kids. The kids sliding into second had to pull up short because they didn't want to cleat the kid in shorts...the kids in shorts couldn't slide to get under a tag, and when there was a bad hop one of the kids had to be walked off the field because he wasn't wearing a cup under his cool looking shorts.
You wear a batting helmet to bat, you wear cleats or turfs when you play, and you wear baseball pants to tryout....that just is what it is.
As i said, "assuming no sliding"... Not wearing a cup? That's on them-- and haphazard. Regardless, shorts vs. pants, is petty and falls WAY down my list of 'red flags'. Again, I don't care if the kid shows up in a clown outfit... If he's throwing 5-10 MPH faster, running 1-2 secs faster, hitting 30-50 feet further, I'll take him over Mr. Dress to a "T" kid that's AA talent at best.
Just my .02 cents. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 13:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by unitedballers
Could you imagine these same parents, if their kid were in the Scripps National Spelling Bee? They would probably yell out letters from the crowd while shaking the seat in front of them!
The car ride home would sound like this - How did you not remember that the "z" in "Laissez-faire" was silent? We practiced that & practiced & practiced! And you needed to step closer to the microphone...what were you thinking and on national TV and in front of all my friends...and OMG, enunciate your words, geez, what's wrong with you kid! You are officially grounded from seeing your study groups until we right this ship! LOL!!!!!!
*SHUDDER* My son was on a team once with a parent like that...everything the kid did was wrong or not good enough, it meant MORE practice time, more cage time, longer workouts until he shaped up and stopped screwing around. The kid was 10!!!
Sometimes I want to tape these people so they can hear how horrible they sound! Speaking of which, anyone on twitter? You have to start following overheard@lakepoint obviously some parents do NOT improve with age!
I think my favorite on there is:
Mom "Come on Son! Remember what I told you! 1st P Strike every time!" 0-0 count FB thrown to a 15 yr old man child: 400 ft HR.
Mom: "Its okay, learn from it!" |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 16:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
What's wrong with shorts to a tryout? (Assuming no sliding) Is it disrespectful? Do pants make you run faster? Hit further? Throw harder? Field better? I don't think so. To me, either the kid has the ability or not. If he has a +fastball you're not taking him because he's in shorts? He's hitting seeds to he gaps, and shows power to all fields with the bat--- BUT he's in shorts, not taking him? The attire doesn't make the ballplayer...
My son went to a high school workout where several Major players showed up in shorts...granted it was labeled as a workout and it may have been acceptable attire, it wasn't clear what kind of workout it would be. It didn't go well for the shorts kids. The kids sliding into second had to pull up short because they didn't want to cleat the kid in shorts...the kids in shorts couldn't slide to get under a tag, and when there was a bad hop one of the kids had to be walked off the field because he wasn't wearing a cup under his cool looking shorts.
You wear a batting helmet to bat, you wear cleats or turfs when you play, and you wear baseball pants to tryout....that just is what it is.
As i said, "assuming no sliding"... Not wearing a cup? That's on them-- and haphazard. Regardless, shorts vs. pants, is petty and falls WAY down my list of 'red flags'. Again, I don't care if the kid shows up in a clown outfit... If he's throwing 5-10 MPH faster, running 1-2 secs faster, hitting 30-50 feet further, I'll take him over Mr. Dress to a "T" kid that's AA talent at best.
Just my .02 cents.
You are correct! Many coaches have relaxed their standards when a Bryce Harper shows up. I can tell you for a fact that I wouldn't cut a kid (with the right attitude) in shorts if he could play.
Some kids don't care and have bad attitudes but some just don't know any better and need to be taught. |
Edited by - hshuler on 07/22/2016 16:49:53 |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 18:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
What's wrong with shorts to a tryout? (Assuming no sliding) Is it disrespectful? Do pants make you run faster? Hit further? Throw harder? Field better? I don't think so. To me, either the kid has the ability or not. If he has a +fastball you're not taking him because he's in shorts? He's hitting seeds to he gaps, and shows power to all fields with the bat--- BUT he's in shorts, not taking him? The attire doesn't make the ballplayer...
My son went to a high school workout where several Major players showed up in shorts...granted it was labeled as a workout and it may have been acceptable attire, it wasn't clear what kind of workout it would be. It didn't go well for the shorts kids. The kids sliding into second had to pull up short because they didn't want to cleat the kid in shorts...the kids in shorts couldn't slide to get under a tag, and when there was a bad hop one of the kids had to be walked off the field because he wasn't wearing a cup under his cool looking shorts.
You wear a batting helmet to bat, you wear cleats or turfs when you play, and you wear baseball pants to tryout....that just is what it is.
As i said, "assuming no sliding"... Not wearing a cup? That's on them-- and haphazard. Regardless, shorts vs. pants, is petty and falls WAY down my list of 'red flags'. Again, I don't care if the kid shows up in a clown outfit... If he's throwing 5-10 MPH faster, running 1-2 secs faster, hitting 30-50 feet further, I'll take him over Mr. Dress to a "T" kid that's AA talent at best.
Just my .02 cents.
You are correct! Many coaches have relaxed their standards when a Bryce Harper shows up. I can tell you for a fact that I wouldn't cut a kid (with the right attitude) in shorts if he could play.
Some kids don't care and have bad attitudes but some just don't know any better and need to be taught.
Right, but I think CaCo's point was that parents are looking to avoid the coach who relaxes his standards for the kid who can play BUT ALSO has a bad attitude. I agree with CaCo, I'm not interested in playing for that coach. His team is more likely to be full of kids who have bad attitudes and to be focused on winning above all else.
Also, to the poster who criticized coaches who try to instruct a kid during a tryout -- I don't think the coach is doing it to actually correct the kid's mechanics, but rather to see how coachable the kid is. Can he make adjustments? Can he be respectful when given instruction/constructive criticism? I don't knock a coach for checking that out. It also gives me a chance to see how the coach approaches instruction. |
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Cherokeeplayer
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 07:52:25
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| This weekend I took my son to the 643 tryout. The owner gave a nice speech to the boys and the parents ahead of the tryout. He said he is looking for the player that can come off the bench at a moments notice, even if he has sat for 5 innings, and still have the drive to play his heart out. He mentioned this is getting harder to find because coaches bi-pass what is best for the kid in favor of the win. He specifically mentioned coaches allowing bad attitudes without repercussions that they stick with and kids coming to practice in shorts. I had to laugh with the shorts discussion we have had on this thread. So I guess if you are a "I wear shorts to practice and tryouts" kid you should avoid 643. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 09:16:27
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| What about when a dad coach of a park team says they plan on getting a paid coach and that the high school coach is assisting them. From my view, if they paid coach is not there, there is no paid coach (rules of evidence). No HS coach is going to waste his time dealing with a youth team. Many HS coaches have told me this. |
Edited by - Punishers on 07/25/2016 09:30:02 |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 10:09:43
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My oldest played for majors all the way through 17 then went d2 and I can tell you shorts were ok in 90 degree August temps into fall, Coming off long events in June and July, Heck on game day pitchers who were not pitching came in shorts T-shirts,
if they had a core group returning most all showed in shorts and shirts always HATS but coach can see a swing and arms regardless.
At college it was also obvious many showed in shorts, It is like saying in football you always wear pants with pads, Most wear shorts in spring practices,
give me a stud in shorts over a dud in pants anyday
hard work earns you some perks, coaches can see talent and respect in players let them do their job and see the product come June |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 11:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguars18
My oldest played for majors all the way through 17 then went d2 and I can tell you shorts were ok in 90 degree August temps into fall, Coming off long events in June and July, Heck on game day pitchers who were not pitching came in shorts T-shirts,
if they had a core group returning most all showed in shorts and shirts always HATS but coach can see a swing and arms regardless.
At college it was also obvious many showed in shorts, It is like saying in football you always wear pants with pads, Most wear shorts in spring practices,
give me a stud in shorts over a dud in pants anyday
hard work earns you some perks, coaches can see talent and respect in players let them do their job and see the product come June
Gotcha, so if you are a really good ballplayer the rules don't apply to you....yes I believe I have seen that sentiment around.
If the coach flat out says you can wear shorts that is one thing, but if you show up to a cold tryout in shorts it's just disrespectful and shows right away you think you are special and you should get special treatment.
In my opinion if you want to get treated like a ballplayer you should dress like a ballplayer. Sometimes it isn't about who is the better player it is about who is the more respectful kid who wants be a teammate, not a stand alone hot shot. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 14:13:52
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I wouldn't send my kid to a tryout with shorts but I am telling you that some parents/kids don't know any better.
Some kids have never been to a tryout, some have only been to rec tryouts or non-organization tryout, some have only played for coaches who don't care whether kids wear shorts or not. I get the 'hot shot' who thinks that he can do whatever but that's not who I am referring to here.
What's so hard about telling a kid that it's not appropriate to wear shorts to a tryout versus just cutting them? The only reason (excluding the hot shot mentality) that a kid would show up at a high school tryout with shorts is because no one has probably told them that they shouldn't. |
Edited by - hshuler on 07/25/2016 15:31:12 |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 15:20:53
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I think as you get older you see more shorts at practice. Most are still stuck in teen year ball and silly tryouts during june.
Trying out is one thing if its a new team but coming to workout in shorts is absolutely a must as you get older. hell anyone ever been to spring training in their life |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 16:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by hshuler
I wouldn't send my kid to a tryout with shorts but I am telling you that some parents/kids don't know any better.
Some kids have never been to a tryout, some have only been to rec tryouts or non-organization tryout, some have only played for coaches who don't care whether kids wear shorts or not. I get the 'hot shot' who thinks that he can do whatever but that's not who I am referring to here.
What's so hard about telling a kid that it's not appropriate to wear shorts to a tryout versus just cutting them? The only reason (excluding the hot shot mentality) that a kid would show up at a high school tryout with shorts is because no one has probably told them that they shouldn't.
Totally agree. Definitely extend an offer to the great ballplayer who genuinely doesn't know better and just needs to be told.
But THAT kid, the one who shows up for a tryout thinking he's God's gift to the organization and can't be bothered to actually put on a pair of baseball pants and blend in with the rest of the kids trying out, that kid needs to be cut. Not because of his shorts (those are just the red flag), but because he's a prima donna who is going to drive everyone -- coach, kid, and parent alike -- crazy all year, even while he's hitting bombs and striking kids out.
Also, @teddy42, I don't think the discussion was about what to wear to practice. The coach will tell the kids when to wear shorts and when not to. There are definitely times when it is absolutely appropriate to practice in shorts.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 16:49:53
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| Newbie mom and I have apparently met THAT kid. If it's an honest mistake I wouldn't hold it against the kid, I'd let him do what he could and if he's good have him come back for round two and remind him to wear pants. I'm also talking about the kid who shows up in shorts, with a giant smirk, and then razzes the other kids with "aren't you hot in those pants?" As he laughs at them....yeah, cut him now would be the best course of action. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 19:54:56
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| I feel like I've heard this discussion before...on a thread about high school tryouts and how some kids show up in shorts and sneakers vs. the full travel ball uni...sending clear message to high school coach that either a. I am totally clueless and have never played anything beyond rec ball and I think I could actually be picked over that Astros player or b. I think I'm a stud and have no respect for the coach. But at some point, at least for the tryout, the uni makes you look professional and respectful. Shorts at practice, absolutely, but coach's call. For a tryout, not so sure, unless you really are clueless. But at what age will a superstar still be showing up from rec ball? Surely no one over 13. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2016 : 11:54:00
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| One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2016 : 13:29:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable? Unless you plan on only playing in local 5 team tourneys. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2016 : 14:15:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
Over the past 14 years our experience has been that most seasons cost 1,600 without fundraising. It did not matter if it was a local park or out of ECB. That was before tournaments started pushing $500 plus. It could easily be 2,000 for a normal season. A frugal group use to get by on 900-1,200, but most wanted three jerseys, two pair of paints, same cleats, new "team" catchers gear, etc. I am not up to paying $3,000+ for "Academy" teams without fields who either choose not to play the big tournaments or just play in tournaments I have not heard of, so they can say they won X number of tournaments.
Most teams do make Budgets and those should be shared with parents. On new teams my son played for over the years I used the budget to determine the priorities of the team. I would always ask to see a budget after the "offer". If they did not have one for what ever reason, it made the decision easier.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2016 : 20:28:33
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| Caco3s budget is about right on the money. If you play on a no Dad pro coached team add about 1,000 per year per player to cover their salaries. And again, you have to decide what is right for your child. Is it worth it to have all pros at 8? No. Is it worth it to pay big $$ for top tourneys when your team is barely AA? No. But with a decent team it's pretty tough to get by on less than 1500-1800 if you want to play a good schedule of competitve tourneys. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/26/2016 20:59:10 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 01:04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable? Unless you plan on only playing in local 5 team tourneys.
USSSA tourneys. So it is a local 5 team tourney. |
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OPHornets
135 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 08:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable?
Easy, because a DAD is coaching. ::shudder:: |
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 09:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable? Unless you plan on only playing in local 5 team tourneys.
Seems out of the norm for me, $2,000 for some 10u baseball? Even my older son's 18u wasn't that much and they even went to Florida to play. Stop making excuses for these people to make youth baseball a money grab instead of the volunteer arrangement it used to be.
And 15 spring tourney's ? You must play with the old ECB Astro's or something playing 60-70 games over the spring/summer.
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Edited by - aj94 on 07/27/2016 09:54:47 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 10:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
One red flag that a parent told me about was a Park associated team charging 2k. Sounds like they are having other parents foot the bill for the coaches kids.
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable? Unless you plan on only playing in local 5 team tourneys.
USSSA tourneys. So it is a local 5 team tourney.
I just looked up 10u, because I know that is your age group punishers, here is what I found:
1. The NIT's averaged around 20 teams, although a few only had 4, the cost was $395-$473.
2. The average teams in a USSSA 10u tourney is about 7...some only had 3. Cost was $395
3. The state level two tourneys averaged 5 teams and South state championship had 9, cost was $450
So, okay, for 10u, if you plan on playing mostly USSSA the cost of the tourneys is $400 instead of $500 which if you play 15 of them like my previous budget gets you to $500 per kid instead of $625.
AJ94, 18u typically play what 8 weeks, maybe? 10u typically play tourneys from end of February until July 4th. 12-15 tourneys is typical. Still not seeing how 2K is all that unreasonable. The tourney fees are set, the practice field prices are set, the cost of baseballs is set....where can you cut costs? There are cheaper AA level tourneys or fundraiser tourneys but if you plan on playing TC, PG, USSSA, Grand Slam...yup, 2K sounds about right.
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Edited by - CaCO3Girl on 07/27/2016 11:34:59 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 10:51:49
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| It is a money grab for a lot of these teams. Some even have the nerve to ask for money before the team is seen. They take advantage of people who are unaware how baseball business world works and some just fork it out without knowing any better. Then they have buyers regret as the season progresses. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 12:03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]
2K doesn't seem out of the norm to me.
Assuming 12 kids per team, charges are:
-Uniforms Fall = $100
-Tourney fees for Fall (2-4 tourneys) = $200
-Practice place for Fall = $200
-Winter Fees for batting practice = $100
-Spring Fees for park practice place = $200
-Spring Uniforms/bag/helmet = $200
-Spring tourneys = 15 at $500 a pop so each kid pays $625 (add more if you want PG
-Destination tourney = $200 per kid (at least)
-New Ball budget = $50
You haven't paid a coach or rainout practice facility and we are looking at $1875...why would 2K be unreasonable? Unless you plan on only playing in local 5 team tourneys.
We were once on a team, where at the FIRST team meeting, an itemized PROJECTED budget was given to each parent, and gone over. Again, it was PROJECTED. It was like $30K for fall/spring for a 10U team. 11 kids... That's was $2,700+!!!!
As the season progressed, updated budgets were provided occasionally, as line items were paid, and the "Projected" number went to "Actual".... Some fund raising was done, some 'corners were cut' on the budget...
At the end of the season, refunds were given. Most ended up at only ~$1,100 out of pocket. Not bad.
Some totals from that budget:
-Uniforms (fall/spring): $408 per player (included unis, batting gloves, cleats, helmets, bags, etc)
-Tourneys (fall/spring): $660 per player (16 total, 5 fall, 11 spring)
-Indoor: (winter/spring): $200 per player
-Destination tourney: $125 per player (in addition to the above 16 tourneys)
IF a coach cannot produce a budget, and provide a 'running total' for expenses, THIS would be the biggest red flag I could think of... |
Edited by - turntwo on 07/27/2016 12:31:41 |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2016 : 14:52:05
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| You would be surprised how many people just "cut the check" without really thinking about it. Taking advantage of the ignorant. |
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Tryout Red Flags
