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BamaDad
188 Posts |
 Posted - 07/04/2016 : 16:28:57
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| The first step is always to ask someone who is close to the team you are considering. That would either be a current/recent parent or coaches/parents on teams who played them a lot. The next step as someone mentioned above is to track their success on Game Changer. You can also get invaluable information on this forum about teams. I learned a lot on here about how to sort through the fluff that coaches will feed you about their respective teams and determine truth from exaggeration(lies). |
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oneZone
117 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2016 : 12:54:58
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
The first step is always to ask someone who is close to the team you are considering. That would either be a current/recent parent or coaches/parents on teams who played them a lot.
I agree that the best way to dig in below the surface and really learn about a team or coach is to find someone with direct experience/knowledge.
But that means you have to know someone who knows someone -- and you can trust their assessment -- which is not always the case.
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
You can also get invaluable information on this forum about teams. I learned a lot on here about how to sort through the fluff that coaches will feed you about their respective teams and determine truth from exaggeration(lies).
This is where it gets interesting to me. This forum and similar sources are definitely valuable, but only in a general sense. They can help shave some time off the learning curve for parents, but there's very little to be learned about specifically what's good, bad and ugly out there.
It's frustrating to see blatantly misleading posts from some teams in here, and to know that those tactics will work on so many new travel-ball parents every year.
As someone put it in an earlier post, "silly season" is here once again. So, be careful, and good luck!
Also, because I know it contributes to the silliness, I'll add the sage advice rippit posted earlier:
Parents: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY get some perspective on your son's true ability at each age level ...
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 08:05:15
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Getting perspective on your kids ability can be difficult ESPECIALLY for parents that don't have a baseball background. As sad as it is to say this is where the cattle call of the open tryout is helpful, but expensive.
If you go to the open ECB tryout it is a half a day of mostly standing around and waiting your turn to have a skill recorded. Over 80% of the kids who come to that tryout are already pre-committed to a team, but ECB requires the tryout fee so the kids go to the tryout. Now if you show up as a non-committ there is a pecking order. If a Major coach likes your kid they have first dibs, if they don't want him then AAA coaches get their shot...and so on. It does give you an idea of where your kids ability really is at.
Then there are the 643 tryouts, this is actually an all day clinic where kids are evaluated on their skills but there is MUCH less waiting around and actually instructions and tips given. But as with ECB the Cougars coach gets the first pick, then Jaguars, then Tigers. Again, a good way to figure out where your kid is.
You have to be careful which parks you believe though. What is their background? Did they have a AA team last year and now they see your AAA/Low Majors kid and are drooling? They may REALLY want him but what will YOUR kid get out of it? You have to decide BEFORE the circus what you are wanting out of a team this year. |
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Mungo Fungo
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 10:57:05
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All this talk about tryouts is making me really glad my kid is showing up as a returning core player with his jersey on. And still, there are no guarantees that he makes this years top team. You just never know until the phone rings in late July.
Good luck to all, hope everyone finds the right fit for their dude.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Getting perspective on your kids ability can be difficult ESPECIALLY for parents that don't have a baseball background. As sad as it is to say this is where the cattle call of the open tryout is helpful, but expensive.
If you go to the open ECB tryout it is a half a day of mostly standing around and waiting your turn to have a skill recorded. Over 80% of the kids who come to that tryout are already pre-committed to a team, but ECB requires the tryout fee so the kids go to the tryout. Now if you show up as a non-committ there is a pecking order. If a Major coach likes your kid they have first dibs, if they don't want him then AAA coaches get their shot...and so on. It does give you an idea of where your kids ability really is at.
Then there are the 643 tryouts, this is actually an all day clinic where kids are evaluated on their skills but there is MUCH less waiting around and actually instructions and tips given. But as with ECB the Cougars coach gets the first pick, then Jaguars, then Tigers. Again, a good way to figure out where your kid is.
You have to be careful which parks you believe though. What is their background? Did they have a AA team last year and now they see your AAA/Low Majors kid and are drooling? They may REALLY want him but what will YOUR kid get out of it? You have to decide BEFORE the circus what you are wanting out of a team this year.
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 11:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Getting perspective on your kids ability can be difficult ESPECIALLY for parents that don't have a baseball background. As sad as it is to say this is where the cattle call of the open tryout is helpful, but expensive.
If you go to the open ECB tryout it is a half a day of mostly standing around and waiting your turn to have a skill recorded. Over 80% of the kids who come to that tryout are already pre-committed to a team, but ECB requires the tryout fee so the kids go to the tryout. Now if you show up as a non-committ there is a pecking order. If a Major coach likes your kid they have first dibs, if they don't want him then AAA coaches get their shot...and so on. It does give you an idea of where your kids ability really is at.
Then there are the 643 tryouts, this is actually an all day clinic where kids are evaluated on their skills but there is MUCH less waiting around and actually instructions and tips given. But as with ECB the Cougars coach gets the first pick, then Jaguars, then Tigers. Again, a good way to figure out where your kid is.
You have to be careful which parks you believe though. What is their background? Did they have a AA team last year and now they see your AAA/Low Majors kid and are drooling? They may REALLY want him but what will YOUR kid get out of it? You have to decide BEFORE the circus what you are wanting out of a team this year.
All good points. The most important one is the last one though. If you go to an open tryout for a team that is either new or considering "moving up" in levels, you have to beware of the coach's hype. As stated above, some coaches will see your AAA/Major child and tell you that they already have at least 7-8 committed that are at his level or better. Even though they are a new team or competed at the AA level last year, they should have no problem competing at the higher level this year. It's a trap! Don't fall for it. Unless you see all of these "committed" kids together at a separate workout, don't believe it. It will lead to the situation discussed in the other topic about kids not playing on their proper level. |
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Gapper
64 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 14:03:50
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| Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 19:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
True, True. |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2016 : 21:38:06
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I'll take above 50% Gapper! Most of the time it's not the returning players. The coach of a team trying to move up has already cut the ones whom he feels can't make it at the higher level. However, he can't cut his own son and therein lies the biggest problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
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bbsis
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2016 : 17:52:36
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| Do the academies cut current players before everyone (including them) has tried out? Seems to me the pitch is always all players have to "earn" their spot from year to year. Then there is all kinds of scrambling/movement after the tryouts. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2016 : 12:11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
I'll take above 50% Gapper! Most of the time it's not the returning players. The coach of a team trying to move up has already cut the ones whom he feels can't make it at the higher level. However, he can't cut his own son and therein lies the biggest problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
Agreed. Those coaches want to surround their son around the best players even though he may not be on the same level as the other players. To all dad coaches: If your son is one of the weakest players on the team it's time for you to give up coaching. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2016 : 20:38:07
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| OR coach at a level where your son can be successful. |
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Mungo Fungo
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2016 : 09:32:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
Just look for the 9 kids with the academy jersey's on. Also note that most of those 9 players will be taller than most of the umps and coaches they saw during the Spring. There also three more returning players that were given an early tryout due to travel, etc.
Two of the nine players you will see on the field have parents that are ticked off and won't be returning, or coaches that are just as ticked off at the parents from the previous season, and have already warned the coaches in the next age group.
So this leaves a total of 10 spots filled, with what....100 kids looking to fill? Tough odds. And we don't think these kids are being vetted early for the DI school / MiLB Draft early?
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TRB
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 08:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
I'll take above 50% Gapper! Most of the time it's not the returning players. The coach of a team trying to move up has already cut the ones whom he feels can't make it at the higher level. However, he can't cut his own son and therein lies the biggest problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
Agreed. Those coaches want to surround their son around the best players even though he may not be on the same level as the other players. To all dad coaches: If your son is one of the weakest players on the team it's time for you to give up coaching.
I can't help but notice that you post on this subject a lot. Did your son get the bad end of the stick with a dad coach before? I haven't seen a lot of what you're talking about, partly because I don't pay close enough attention I guess. Adversity sucks, but it's part of life and baseball. Favoritism exist in all aspects of life. As far as dad coaches, they don't bother me. How do you think youth sports started? BTW, whats the name of the team you're coaching this year? I'd like to watch you guys play. |
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Mungo Fungo
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 11:20:13
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@TRB:
Having a son that has played for only a couple Majors level teams here in the Greater Metro, I think his posts are relative to what is actually happening out there. It does exist here and elsewhere, to the detriment of kids that should be getting reps and are not because of Daddy Ball. No worries though, that practice gets mostly weeded out starting now. Thankfully, already starting to see those Dad's being relegated to the lower teams this tryout season.
Come on, give an honest answer to this question:
What good comes to a player who isn't even close to the skill level of the rest of his teammates, who has his own Dad putting him in an uncomfortable position in the court of public opinion (bleachers) week after week? Less than zero respect for any Dad that is practicing this, and there are some well known Dad coaches out there that have been doing it for quite some time now. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 12:59:24
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| Even worse for the player than the court of public opinion in the bleachers is the court of public opinion in the dugout from that kids peers. |
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aj94
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 13:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by TRB
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
I'll take above 50% Gapper! Most of the time it's not the returning players. The coach of a team trying to move up has already cut the ones whom he feels can't make it at the higher level. However, he can't cut his own son and therein lies the biggest problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
Agreed. Those coaches want to surround their son around the best players even though he may not be on the same level as the other players. To all dad coaches: If your son is one of the weakest players on the team it's time for you to give up coaching.
I can't help but notice that you post on this subject a lot. Did your son get the bad end of the stick with a dad coach before? I haven't seen a lot of what you're talking about, partly because I don't pay close enough attention I guess. Adversity sucks, but it's part of life and baseball. Favoritism exist in all aspects of life. As far as dad coaches, they don't bother me. How do you think youth sports started? BTW, whats the name of the team you're coaching this year? I'd like to watch you guys play.
This has been a topic on here for many years...me personally I don't have a problem with dad coaches, many of them coach fairly. BUT there are many including some that post on this board that are major daddy ball coaches and then try to justify it when they get called out on it.
Let me give you an example of what I have seen firsthand this season; coaches son at middle infield all the time making errors and bad throws every tournament, and if he does move him after the error fest it's to 1B not to the OF.
Another example, coach's son is batting 3rd, 0-7 with 4 strikeouts in pool play just about every tournament, bracket play he still is batting in the 3rd spot.
Called him out on it he gets into some nonsense about some player grades from some batting cage sessions that consisted of hitting off a tee and soft toss.
This is what is taking place and this is why parents are annoyed. |
Edited by - aj94 on 07/12/2016 13:51:59 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 14:29:58
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| The answer to all this is to know who the coaches are before you sign up. If you don't know anything about them surely you have a friend who does! And you can always make a move if what you were promised doesn't shape up to be the reality. The first fall tournament should give you an idea of how things will go. BUT to have something to gripe about, YOUR child needs to solidly and consistently be able to outplay that child at that position. If it's a volunteer dad coach's decision to pick between his lousy kid at ss vs. your lousy kid at ss, then his will win out every time. |
Edited by - Crazyforbball on 07/12/2016 15:54:36 |
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TRB
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 15:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by aj94
quote:
Originally posted by TRB
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
I'll take above 50% Gapper! Most of the time it's not the returning players. The coach of a team trying to move up has already cut the ones whom he feels can't make it at the higher level. However, he can't cut his own son and therein lies the biggest problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Gapper
Great post BamaDad. One of the best things a team could do during a tryout is have any committed players in attendance and also identified as returning players. Just like the coaches are evaluating the players, families are evaluating the existing talent to see if the claim of what level the team wants to play is justified. Most wouldn't do that because it would expose themselves and they wouldn't attract better players. Most of the teams that could move up a level with the right 3 or 4 roster moves, aren't really able to do that because the ones that need to be removed are some of the returning players. And what are the odds they would be the coaches kids?
Agreed. Those coaches want to surround their son around the best players even though he may not be on the same level as the other players. To all dad coaches: If your son is one of the weakest players on the team it's time for you to give up coaching.
I can't help but notice that you post on this subject a lot. Did your son get the bad end of the stick with a dad coach before? I haven't seen a lot of what you're talking about, partly because I don't pay close enough attention I guess. Adversity sucks, but it's part of life and baseball. Favoritism exist in all aspects of life. As far as dad coaches, they don't bother me. How do you think youth sports started? BTW, whats the name of the team you're coaching this year? I'd like to watch you guys play.
This has been a topic on here for many years...me personally I don't have a problem with dad coaches, many of them coach fairly. BUT there are many including some that post on this board that are major daddy ball coaches and then try to justify it when they get called out on it.
Let me give you an example of what I have seen firsthand this season; coaches son at middle infield all the time making errors and bad throws every tournament, and if he does move him after the error fest it's to 1B not to the OF.
Another example, coach's son is batting 3rd, 0-7 with 4 strikeouts in pool play just about every tournament, bracket play he still is batting in the 3rd spot.
Called him out on it he gets into some nonsense about some player grades from some batting cage sessions that consisted of hitting off a tee and soft toss.
This is what is taking place and this is why parents are annoyed.
Like I said, I haven't seen a lot of this past 8u Rec ball. If how you describe actually happens then yes that's wrong, obviously. I also know how people are and how some people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their kid. That applies also to the coaches. I just noticed it seems to be a blanket statement used by a lot of people. I can't imagine any coach, dad or not, moving an obvious stud below their own kid or pushing their kid in front of someone that is clearly better. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 16:15:51
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quote:
Originally posted by TRB
Like I said, I haven't seen a lot of this past 8u Rec ball. If how you describe actually happens then yes that's wrong, obviously. I also know how people are and how some people wear rose colored glasses when it comes to their kid. That applies also to the coaches. I just noticed it seems to be a blanket statement used by a lot of people. I can't imagine any coach, dad or not, moving an obvious stud below their own kid or pushing their kid in front of someone that is clearly better.
There's 3 types of 'daddy-ball' coaches... You hear about 2, the other you don't...
1-Coach's son, little Javier, is by far the 'weakest link' on the team. His best asset is his speed. Maybe his baseball IQ, but otherwise, his abilities are REALLY lacking. Compared to the rest of the team. Coach doesn't care. He's there as a 'place holder' for his son, and will 'spotlight' his son all the time. Javier never sits. Hits lead off. And primarily plays SS. You hear about this a LOT. This happens A LOT. This is what drives people to come onto forums and complain.
2- Coach's son, little Joseph, is again, one of the weaker kids. Maybe not quite the weakest, but in the bottom 3. He's got more tools than Javier, in terms of abilities, but lacks plenty as well. Coach is somewhat realistic about his son. He built a team that doesn't spot light his kid as much, but it's glaring due to where he bats, and that he rarely sits, that it is daddy ball. Joseph hits fourth, leads the teams in doubles and homers, but also in K's, plays corner infield or maybe catcher. He doesn't bleed errors like Javier, but there are a couple better choices on the team, that would make the entire team more competitive. You'll hear about this coach. He's complained about, by a few. Maybe 3-4 people on the team that want their kid to get reps where Joseph plays, but they don't, so they complain.
3- Coach's son, little Johnny, is a STUD. He plays SS, and is by far the best choice for that position on the team. Coach bats him 6-8 in the lineup, even with him leading the team in BA. People my gripe about other positions, and maybe BUDDY ball, but coach gives little Christopher (and every other kid) every chance at positions, only to see they cannot consistently perform at the level others can, on the team. This dad may be a decent 'teacher' of the game (i.e. instruction), but his best quality could be game management/strategy. You rarely hear about this coach being a 'daddy-baller' unless it's from Christopher's parents, because he was the 'lowest' on the team. |
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Mungo Fungo
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 17:27:10
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Happens all the time. But I will say it again, those guys are getting outed. There is a majors level coach out in the Marietta area who is NOTORIOUS for it, and has been for years, and will not be managing a majors level team this season because of it. There will be lots of parents whose sons had to take a backseat that will be chuckling about it. Full disclaimer: I have no skin in that game but it's been yakked about in the circles since all the way back to 8U.
Who knows, maybe they know their time is short and they are going to do all they can for little Barney until they can't anymore, no matter the cost to the individual players, or to the detriment of the competitiveness of their team. No telling how that Daddy-Ball mind operates.
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2016 : 23:33:03
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@TRB
Let's just say I have seen more and more of it every year at multiple levels. It's just bad character the way I see it. I remember a few years a go watching a game where the kids from the opposing were yelling "Daddy Ball" from the dug out as they destroyed the other team whose dad coached kids were placed at 2B and SS that could not make routine plays. I'm sure the other team chanting did not help their mental state either. Blame that on the daddy-ballers who accused the other team of unsportmans like conduct. |
Edited by - Punishers on 07/13/2016 09:12:25 |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 00:09:09
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Boy, I wish that I knew the name of this team. Sounds like a familiar situation. This has been an entertaining thread. It has also been eye-opening because I thought that I was alone in my observations of daddy coaches. Typically, what I have noticed is that the coach's son is either one of the top 2-3 on the team or the worst 2-3 on the team. The kid is never in the middle. The problem is when the coach KNOWS that his son is in the bottom third talent-wise on the team but plays him in clutch(winning) time anyway. That will cause a team to implode quickly.quote:
Originally posted by Mungo Fungo
Happens all the time. But I will say it again, those guys are getting outed. There is a majors level coach out in the Marietta area who is NOTORIOUS for it, and has been for years, and will not be managing a majors level team this season because of it. There will be lots of parents whose sons had to take a backseat that will be chuckling about it. Full disclaimer: I have no skin in that game but it's been yakked about in the circles since all the way back to 8U.
Who knows, maybe they know their time is short and they are going to do all they can for little Barney until they can't anymore, no matter the cost to the individual players, or to the detriment of the competitiveness of their team. No telling how that Daddy-Ball mind operates.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 09:44:10
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| Usually that kid (if it's the one in the bottom 3) doesn't want to be out there any more than anyone else (except Dad) wants him out there. Poor kid. My question is WHY? Is it really THAT important to force your kid to play ball?! Or at least relieve the pressure and put him in RF...though the ball DOES have a way of finding that kid at a critical moment even there .... I just don't get it, nor will we play on a team like that...ever. do your research ahead of time! Talk to the parents!! Then that problem will solve itself. All those teams ultimately implode as they creep up in age any way. |
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Bflanders
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 10:29:58
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Bama:
This is some of the most entertaining stuff I have seen in a while as well, and great observation Mungo.
@ Mungo:
Blink your eyes twice if you gave us a very specific clue in there as to who you were referring to? |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 12:25:30
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Yeah Mungo, blink twice or scratch your nose if we can read between the lines.
Crazy: I agree, the majority of the time that coach's son(in the bottom three) does not want to be out there. Because of that, he shows his disinterest and becomes a distraction to the rest of the team. I always say, let a kid do what he in interested in doing. If it's baseball, let him come to that decision himself. He will then perform better because he wants cares about it and wants to get better.
Oh yeah, "the ball don't lie". It will definitely find the one who least wants it to come to them.
quote:
Originally posted by Bflanders
Bama:
This is some of the most entertaining stuff I have seen in a while as well, and great observation Mungo.
@ Mungo:
Blink your eyes twice if you gave us a very specific clue in there as to who you were referring to?
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Edited by - BamaDad on 07/13/2016 12:52:02 |
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Trying out for new team
