| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2016 : 10:56:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I'm with you caco3 with regard to 14 and 15 year olds..I was talking about the pre puberty crowd, i.e. the big huge 13 yr. old playing on a mainly 12U team. Wouldn't it make sense for him to move ahead up to his grade to get ready for high school?
It would make sense....however, I let my big huge 12u seventh grader play on a 12u team with a lot of 6th graders for the Cooperstown experience, and it was a freaking blast! He also wasn't even close to the biggest kid in C-town...our third base coach asked another teams third basemen if his wife and kids were enjoying the games....the kid DID have a 5 o'clock shadow and was about 6'2!
Punisher, to your point about age cutoffs being by school year...WHOSE school year? We go back 8/1, some schools don't go back until mid September, and schools really far up north play HS baseball during June and July...kind of hard to assign a universal cutoff date that would work with every grade across the US.
Right. I'm sure we could get something closer in line than the May 1st cut off date that is used now. Example: There is no way a kid who turned 11 in Feb. and 5th grade be allowed to play on a 10u Spring/Summer team.
That kid should be playing 11u for fall and spring/summer. |
 |
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 11:18:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zachsdad
Playing up is not the issue here. The issue is if you go to a grade-play format, then kids that have been held back (or failed) have competitive advantage. My son plays with a kid who was held back in kindergarten (or 1st, don't remember) bc he had a late birthday for the school class he began with but an early birthday in an age-based classification. He simply wasn't mature enough to hang with the other kids in his grade at an early age. I don't have a problem with that scenario because it was done for academic reasons. His age advantage on the field is small but it is noticeable. What I have a problem with is kids that held back who are academically successful and not struggling being held back. When it's every kid in the family having this done and the kids are academically gifted, the reason is obvious.
My kid is in the same situation. He is 9 and everyone in his class is 10. There is a maturity difference even though he is taller than most in his class. Athletically, he can hang with the best of them due to a lot of training. That may not be the case for some.
Holding kids back for sports is a bad idea to me if nothing is wrong with them academically. I know the days of finishing school at age 16 is long gone now. Gov. funding at play. As parents, we want our kids to be intelligent, but we turn around and do the dumbest things then wonder why they do dumb things. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 11:34:53
|
Punisher, what cutoff date would work? Please keep in mind these dates become huge for the 15-18u recruiting class and really have no merit at 6u-14u
The real problem is the school cutoff date keeps moving and so does the baseball cutoff date.
ATLANTA (AP) -- The Georgia House has passed a bill that would establish an age requirement for children enrolling in kindergarten. The bill, approved Thursday, requires children to be 5 years old by Aug. 1 to enroll for the 2017-18 school year, and by July 1 for the 2018-19 term.
New Jersey---Local school districts can establish a cut-off date for kindergarten entry on October 1 or later. Residents must follow their local school board policies regarding cut-off dates.
N.J.S.A.18A:38-5 - Admission of Pupils Underage
Had my August birthday son who lives in GA started school now he would be one of the oldest in his grade, as it is he is the youngest.
If I had still lived in NJ it would be a totally different ball game *pun intended* |
|
|
|
tbaillie2
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 11:55:14
|
I'd say by 7th grade, even though Gwinnett doesn't have middle school ball - if your son desires to play in HS then get them playing w/ "their grade" to prepare (whether they've been playing down or up). It's obviously up to the parent, as they know their kid though.
Heck, NGMS just had a rising 8th grader get an SEC football offer. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 16:28:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Punisher, what cutoff date would work? Please keep in mind these dates become huge for the 15-18u recruiting class and really have no merit at 6u-14u
The real problem is the school cutoff date keeps moving and so does the baseball cutoff date.
ATLANTA (AP) -- The Georgia House has passed a bill that would establish an age requirement for children enrolling in kindergarten. The bill, approved Thursday, requires children to be 5 years old by Aug. 1 to enroll for the 2017-18 school year, and by July 1 for the 2018-19 term.
New Jersey---Local school districts can establish a cut-off date for kindergarten entry on October 1 or later. Residents must follow their local school board policies regarding cut-off dates.
N.J.S.A.18A:38-5 - Admission of Pupils Underage
Had my August birthday son who lives in GA started school now he would be one of the oldest in his grade, as it is he is the youngest.
If I had still lived in NJ it would be a totally different ball game *pun intended*
It could be a carry-on date. Meaning that if the kid turns an age up during the fall/spring season, they should play up in that age.
Example: Kid turns 10 in May, should play 10u for Fall + seasons. Not play 9u. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 16:32:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
I'd say by 7th grade, even though Gwinnett doesn't have middle school ball - if your son desires to play in HS then get them playing w/ "their grade" to prepare (whether they've been playing down or up). It's obviously up to the parent, as they know their kid though.
Heck, NGMS just had a rising 8th grader get an SEC football offer.
An 8th grader!!!??? How old is he? Maybe he can make a beer run for me. LOL. |
|
|
|
Kory
50 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2016 : 20:28:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
I'd say by 7th grade, even though Gwinnett doesn't have middle school ball - if your son desires to play in HS then get them playing w/ "their grade" to prepare (whether they've been playing down or up). It's obviously up to the parent, as they know their kid though.
Heck, NGMS just had a rising 8th grader get an SEC football offer.
An 8th grader!!!??? How old is he? Maybe he can make a beer run for me. LOL.
Has to be a QB. Schools like to lock kids down that have a good release, size, can read the defense, and work through multiple progressions in as little time as possible. |
|
|
|
KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2016 : 11:24:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by BREAMKING
Would a kid that is two years held back even be able to play sports his senior year. Just wondering ghsa has to have an age cut off I would think.
GHSA says a kid can't play if they are 19 before May 1. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2016 : 12:08:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kory
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
I'd say by 7th grade, even though Gwinnett doesn't have middle school ball - if your son desires to play in HS then get them playing w/ "their grade" to prepare (whether they've been playing down or up). It's obviously up to the parent, as they know their kid though.
Heck, NGMS just had a rising 8th grader get an SEC football offer.
An 8th grader!!!??? How old is he? Maybe he can make a beer run for me. LOL.
Has to be a QB. Schools like to lock kids down that have a good release, size, can read the defense, and work through multiple progressions in as little time as possible.
Football is just weird!
http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/05/19/alabama-offers-eighth-grader-jesus-machado-linebacker
Alabama has offered a scholarship to eighth-grade linebacker, he holds verbal offers from Iowa State, Michigan State, NC State and West Virginia.
http://www.wjcl.com/sports/georgia-bulldogs-offer-football-scholarship-to-savannah-8th-grader/123667852/story
Wide receiver 8th grader with offer from UGA
http://recruiting.blog.ajc.com/2015/06/05/breaking-uga-offers-football-scholarship-to-8th-grader/
6-foot-1, 190-pound safety, early scholarship offers from UGA, Auburn, Tennessee, South Carolina, Miami, Kentucky, Boston College, Michigan, and West Virginia
|
|
|
|
BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2016 : 12:56:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by KeithB
quote:
Originally posted by BREAMKING
Would a kid that is two years held back even be able to play sports his senior year. Just wondering ghsa has to have an age cut off I would think.
GHSA says a kid can't play if they are 19 before May 1.
thanks |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2016 : 11:48:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Kory
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
I'd say by 7th grade, even though Gwinnett doesn't have middle school ball - if your son desires to play in HS then get them playing w/ "their grade" to prepare (whether they've been playing down or up). It's obviously up to the parent, as they know their kid though.
Heck, NGMS just had a rising 8th grader get an SEC football offer.
An 8th grader!!!??? How old is he? Maybe he can make a beer run for me. LOL.
Has to be a QB. Schools like to lock kids down that have a good release, size, can read the defense, and work through multiple progressions in as little time as possible.
Football is just weird!
http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/05/19/alabama-offers-eighth-grader-jesus-machado-linebacker
Alabama has offered a scholarship to eighth-grade linebacker, he holds verbal offers from Iowa State, Michigan State, NC State and West Virginia.
http://www.wjcl.com/sports/georgia-bulldogs-offer-football-scholarship-to-savannah-8th-grader/123667852/story
Wide receiver 8th grader with offer from UGA
http://recruiting.blog.ajc.com/2015/06/05/breaking-uga-offers-football-scholarship-to-8th-grader/
6-foot-1, 190-pound safety, early scholarship offers from UGA, Auburn, Tennessee, South Carolina, Miami, Kentucky, Boston College, Michigan, and West Virginia
Owen is a grown man. He has size and speed. Has been developed well. Let's see how he grows when the competition becomes just as developed as him. Isn't Richt at Miami now? |
|
|
|
hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2016 : 18:24:12
|
| I think he'll be fine because of his speed. |
|
|
|
Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2016 : 21:16:36
|
| How old is he anyway? Saying he is 8th grade means nothing. These days kids can be 16 in the 8th grade. Boy, how times have changed. 17 was the normal graduating age, now it's almost 20. |
Edited by - Punishers on 06/18/2016 21:47:57 |
|
|
|
hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2016 : 23:01:03
|
| He's a rising sophomore and had multiple offers before he entered 9th grade. I think his offer are in the 20's right now. I haven't no idea how old he is but haven't heard anything about him being held. |
Edited by - hshuler on 06/18/2016 23:11:13 |
|
|
|
KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 11:24:39
|
| As much as I didn't want to do it, my son, who turns 10 Monday and is going to 5th grade, will play 10u again this season. I was asked by a pro coach of one of the top teams if I would consider. I said yes, and here we are. He did have an 11u offer on the table, but we felt this was a better decision for his development. Well see how it goes. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 13:25:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by KeithB
As much as I didn't want to do it, my son, who turns 10 Monday and is going to 5th grade, will play 10u again this season. I was asked by a pro coach of one of the top teams if I would consider. I said yes, and here we are. He did have an 11u offer on the table, but we felt this was a better decision for his development. Well see how it goes.
I am making the same choice with my son. I have been told that playing 14u A team is WAY better than playing 15u B or C team. The A team plays in the best events and see's everyone's ace, you aren't going to get that on a C team...or a AAA team. |
|
|
|
KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 20:06:28
|
| I agree. 11U AA vs 10U Major is pretty close, if 10U Major isn't a little better. My son is still not even close to being the oldest, so I think it will be good. I am curious though about going from 13U to HS. Is Fall season enough time to adjust to the bigger diamond? |
|
|
|
BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2016 : 21:02:35
|
| My son has a May birthday as well. Most of his classmates play at a higher level than he does. I have been trying to decide whether to skip 13U when the time comes and go to 14U. Some of the top academy 13U teams have said that they also play 14U tournaments. They begin the season at 13U to get things going but then start playing in 14U tournaments to prepare players for the "big field". So I could get the best of both worlds by going that route. It will depend on what his options are when that time comes. |
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2016 : 10:37:29
|
Many of the 13u Majors teams played mostly 14u tourneys. I took my son to one 13u Majors tryout, they did it on a 54x80 field so we passed and went to a 14u AAA team. He played all year with kids who were already 14 and a few turned 15, and while he was still in the top 25% of the team he wasn't the best at everything. It made him work harder and when the high school said "rising 9th graders report over the summer for these workout dates if you are interested in playing baseball in high school" he wasn't behind anyone, and ahead of many.
Now my son is 5'11 and 150 pounds and still 13 but he doesn't look it. If your kid is big like mine there is zero reason to play 13u, and many reasons to play 14u summer before 9th grade. |
|
|
|
BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2016 : 14:42:58
|
We will definitely be evaluating the situation when that time comes. It will be an adjustment for him going from one of the bigger kids to average size. My question for any 13U coach will be if they play in 14U tournaments as well. Would it be better to play 13U Major or 14U AA? I feel that he would see better pitching in 13U Major in that situation. If the choice is between 13U Major and 14U AAA, then that would be a closer decision. The field size difference may not matter as much if the player has great speed and athleticism. quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Many of the 13u Majors teams played mostly 14u tourneys. I took my son to one 13u Majors tryout, they did it on a 54x80 field so we passed and went to a 14u AAA team. He played all year with kids who were already 14 and a few turned 15, and while he was still in the top 25% of the team he wasn't the best at everything. It made him work harder and when the high school said "rising 9th graders report over the summer for these workout dates if you are interested in playing baseball in high school" he wasn't behind anyone, and ahead of many.
Now my son is 5'11 and 150 pounds and still 13 but he doesn't look it. If your kid is big like mine there is zero reason to play 13u, and many reasons to play 14u summer before 9th grade.
|
|
|
|
CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2016 : 19:19:19
|
| Bamadad, 13u Major equivalent is 14u AAA. So if he can play majors at 13 he can make a decent 14AAA team. Field size mattered in pitching the most. Pitching from 50 then from 60 was a huge change, bigger than the base running, bigger than the BBCOR, but nothing is as pretty as a curve from 60! If your kid is a pitcher and can hurl it 60ft then don't bother with the 54 field. The huge difference ten feet makes, it's finally a true curve, it has enough room to really break, and just very pretty to watch it come in. |
|
|
|
sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2016 : 21:05:07
|
I'll throw in my 2 cents since we completed our 13U season this spring. We had 11 players who were 13 yo and one who was 12. We're classified as AAA, but played .500 ball against Major teams. Only three of our 13U players are headed into 9th grade this fall and only 2 of our players played 60/90 during the MS season. Both of them were solid regulars on their MS team and said that they liked playing 54/80 better.
Our team was good enough to play 14U, but with the dynamic of our group, I felt that it would be better for them them stay in 13U & compete at a high level against upper level teams. We've had a consistent core of six players since they were 10 yo and have progressed from an aweful single A team to going toe to toe with Major teams. This group deserved and needed to taste success so that they could experience the payoff of hard work. You've got to have success along the way to keep you going and I think we can sometimes get so focused on looking into the future that we forget to enjoy the moment today.
We mostly played 54/80 this spring, but also won a PG tourney at 60/90. Other than good pitching turning into average pitching and stealing 2nd base becoming nearly automatic again, 60/90 wasn't anything special. I don't believe that playing 54/80 will have any negative impact on their development and believe it's a good transition at an age where their bodies are undergoing a lot of change as it is. I'm sure that the argument can be made that we should have played up to maximize their development, but I believe you also have to learn how to win, how to play at a high level when you're expected to win and how to handle the pressure of having the target on your back. To me, that's an important part of the development process too. It's a different pressure when you're "trying" to win and when you're "expected" to win. I like 54/80 as a transition and feel that it's a good thing for the majority of 13U players. But I also see the reasoning behind those that play up; especially if they're already in the 8th grade. I don't think this is a "right or wrong" decision, just one that has to fit your situation. It's a slight transition from 54/80 to 60/90, but it's a big jump from 50/70 to 60/90. A transition year at 54/80 isn't going to hinder their overall development and making the jump to 60/90 isn't going to speed it up. It'll all come out in the wash. |
|
|
|
KeithB
282 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2016 : 21:31:45
|
| Good input. Thanks. Just spoke to one of my son's prior coaches, and he says playing with his age is a god thing. When he hits his growth spurt, start looking into playing with his class. If we stay where we are, I can see the 13u team playing 14u tournaments. All age groups currently do it. He's average size now. We'll see how it goes. |
|
|
|
Cherokeeplayer
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 07:47:31
|
| I don't see the point in transitioning from 50x70 to 54x80 to 60x90. That is two transitions in as many years. I also don't agree with sebaseball that it is only a slight transition from 54x80 to 60x90. throwing from Short or third to 1st, throwing from home to second, has a certain amount of your arm knows where to throw. That gets screwed up when you keep changing field dimensions. Plus it's hard enough to get a really good breaking ball out of a kid, getting it to break at 50 then 54 then 60 then go back to 54, no thanks, you are asking for kids to be hit at the plate. |
|
|
|
Kmk72
112 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2016 : 18:21:50
|
my only gripe is this... teams will recruit kids with May/June BDays...so some teams are full of kids who are mostly at the next grade.
Playing the grade with a cut off date (to stop the kids who were left back from playing down) is not a bad idea IMO. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Time to play by grade not age???
