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bballman
1432 Posts |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2016 : 22:33:50
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I'm sure he wouldn't mind me sharing this, but I brought up some of the concerns brought up here with Jerry Ford with PG. Just to let you know where he is coming from, here is his response:
"Thanks, it is definitely a work in progress. I agree with everything you have said. People just have to realize why we are doing this... Protect pitchers.
We could probably put pitch counts on the board at LP, but nowhere else that we play. It is nearly impossible for our scorekeepers to be high on pitch count. They might be under because of missing a pitch, but it's nearly impossible to add a pitch.
Anyhow, I appreciate the information. We are working to solve the issues involved. Like anything new, we will learn and make adjustments. We have already decided to allow pitchers to finish the hitter without penalty. It really helps when people give us their thoughts.
Thanks again,
Jerry" |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 13:39:02
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| If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 14:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc.
yeah that will work! You know except for baseball factory and all the other places that would be glad to host events during that time with PG out of the way  |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 15:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
If PG wants to truly Protect Pitchers they and all organizations would shut down baseball for 6 months or so no pitching practicing, showcases etc.
They really shouldn't have to do that. Different players from different parts of the country are only available during certain times of the year. Some areas of the country play their HS ball during the summer, so the fall is the only time those players can play in showcases or any kind of PG tournament. There are many other reasons, not the least of which, they are a business and provide a service.
The REAL responsibility falls on the parents and coaches. If a parent doesn't want his kid to throw too much, they need to take responsibility and keep their kid out for whatever period of time they feel necessary.
Why do we always want to place blame and responsibility on others? PG is limiting the amount of pitches a player can throw during their events, but they can't be responsible for how many events a player attends or how much rest that player gets during the year. That would be like casinos shortening their hours or only being open certain times of the year so people don't lose too much money.
Parents and coaches, be smart. Make sure your own kids and players don't play (pitch in particular) more than they should... |
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RoamingCF
77 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 16:44:08
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@bballman, THANK YOU!! It's on parents first, and those parents holding coaches to secondary responsibility.
I've witnessed (this year) a young kid (pre-Teen) have 3 separate outings over Sat-Sun, all 50+ Pitch outings, totaling close to 170 pitches. ALL WITHIN THE RULES OF THE TOURNEY. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2016 : 07:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by RoamingCF
@bballman, THANK YOU!! It's on parents first, and those parents holding coaches to secondary responsibility.
I've witnessed (this year) a young kid (pre-Teen) have 3 separate outings over Sat-Sun, all 50+ Pitch outings, totaling close to 170 pitches. ALL WITHIN THE RULES OF THE TOURNEY.
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG. |
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sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2016 : 10:13:55
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quote:
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG.
Bingo! I just had a conversation with a gentleman this weekend from Memphis, TN. He said that he spends $20K/year on travel baseball for his 12U son as they only go to "big" tournaments in FL, TX, GA, AL, etc. They have players from all over the southeast, play year-round, have professional coaches, etc. Was bragging how they'd been playing 90 - 100 games a year since they were 9 years old. Said that his older son threw in the low 90s as a junior in HS and quit playing. His exact words were "I guess he just got burned out". YA THINK?
Really nice guy, but, IMO, he and everyone of his ilk are exactly what's wrong with travel baseball and give it a black eye. They can say all they want that this is making their kids better, etc, etc, but I guarantee you that if they played a sane schedule, spent 1/5 that amount and let their kids be kids instead of quasi professional players, they would be just as good in HS as they will be through that nonsense. They aren't doing it for their kids as much as they are doing for themselves to poke their chest out and feel good about themselves. It was a really sad conversation from my standpoint and reiterated everything that I'm working hard not to be as I lead my son and our team through this process. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2016 : 13:17:21
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| It is on the parents. 100%. PG implementing pitchsmart is an effort to protect the kids whose parents won't. Team USA does the same. And it's my understanding that the program was developed by the MLB so I guess they are the ones everyone should be complaining to, not PG or others who adhere to it. Even then there is plenty of opportunity to work your way around it and pitch your child as much as possible for those who are, sadly, so inclined. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2016 : 14:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
It is on the parents. 100%. PG implementing pitchsmart is an effort to protect the kids whose parents won't. Team USA does the same. And it's my understanding that the program was developed by the MLB so I guess they are the ones everyone should be complaining to, not PG or others who adhere to it. Even then there is plenty of opportunity to work your way around it and pitch your child as much as possible for those who are, sadly, so inclined.
It was actually developed by ASMI through their research and endorsed/sponsored by MLB. As I mentioned earlier, PG and MANY other organizations are adopting these guidelines. And as CaCO3Girl mentioned, even if PG decided to shut down 6 months out of the year, there are plenty of other organizations who would be holding events for parents to get their kids in. Parents and coaches, take some responsibility... |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 07:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
And how many times have you seen that even when a kid has a weekend off from their team the parents find the kid a pick up game, and that is on top of the pitching lesson, hitting lesson and 3 speed and agility classes the kid had that week. I think Parents are far more culpable in youth injuries than large organizations like PG.
Bingo! I just had a conversation with a gentleman this weekend from Memphis, TN. He said that he spends $20K/year on travel baseball for his 12U son as they only go to "big" tournaments in FL, TX, GA, AL, etc. They have players from all over the southeast, play year-round, have professional coaches, etc. Was bragging how they'd been playing 90 - 100 games a year since they were 9 years old. Said that his older son threw in the low 90s as a junior in HS and quit playing. His exact words were "I guess he just got burned out". YA THINK?
Really nice guy, but, IMO, he and everyone of his ilk are exactly what's wrong with travel baseball and give it a black eye. They can say all they want that this is making their kids better, etc, etc, but I guarantee you that if they played a sane schedule, spent 1/5 that amount and let their kids be kids instead of quasi professional players, they would be just as good in HS as they will be through that nonsense. They aren't doing it for their kids as much as they are doing for themselves to poke their chest out and feel good about themselves. It was a really sad conversation from my standpoint and reiterated everything that I'm working hard not to be as I lead my son and our team through this process.
I'm always saddened by these conversations too. The parent hears themselves explaining how much they are doing for their kid and how many opportunities they are providing their children with. What I hear is a kid who doesn't have time to be a kid and will most likely hate the sport by the time they are a senior in high school.
When baseball turns into more of a job that a game you have to be at a higher level to get through that and appreciate your skill and what doors it can open for you. If the parents turn it into a job at age 10...well, the kid isn't old enough to understand and just winds up resenting the sport.
My daughter just finished 7u rec ball, one day while I was with my 14u son at an indoor practice I saw a 7u kid from her team doing a strength training private lesson. Yes that kid was the best on the team but there is no point in a seven year old "training" for anything. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 10:40:55
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For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture.  |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 13:13:36
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| ^^^^^^Great story!!! And some points every parent should take to heart that drills their child relentlessly in the sport. Hopefully one day your son will use his experience to be the coach kids WANT to play for because of the great attitude and lessons you clearly instilled in him. Good job!! |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 13:37:45
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture.
Good stuff! |
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mikepayne
173 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 14:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
For some perspective on all this. Some of you may know that my son played college baseball and just finished his last year. It was a phenomenal run, but it's over. I know times are different now, but he played rec ball until he was 12. Probably 25 to 30 games in the spring and 15 or so in the fall. Then he moved on to travel ball. We're not rich, so all of our vacations were baseball related. My son still brings up that he never had a spring break. His senior year of HS, he had like 3 days to go to Florida after spring break baseball ended and that was the only spring break he ever got. I think he regrets that a little, but he also was doing something that he loved. I haven't directly asked him yet, but I often wonder if he would have wanted to do things differently. I think the sting of it ending is still a little too close to ask yet. Most of his time playing baseball, he was one of the best. His last two years of college were a struggle. His sophomore year was great. Pitched 41 innings mostly in relief, ERA of 2.63, started an elimination game in the regionals and took a shutout into the 8th inning. He didn't get the win, but his team won and played in the regional finals. Great year. Junior and Senior years, he lost some velocity and didn't wind up getting to pitch a whole lot, so it was a disappointing end to a career. He was on a very good team with teammates that were like family, so it made it easier on him. Then it was over. No more "real" baseball.
I say all this because even though he's been playing organized baseball since he was 7 (16 years), he really was not ready for it to end yet. I think he still loves the game. He has talked about wanting to get in a men's league and continue to play. In college he was a pitcher only. He misses playing short stop and hitting and REALLY wants to do it again. I tried very hard over the years to be encouraging while still teaching him the game the right way. I didn't force him to do anything, didn't yell at him for making mistakes. To this day, I will be brutally honest with him about his performance, but not in a demeaning way. Just honest about it. One of the things that I think helped him keep his love for the game through all the time spent doing it, is that his closest friends were not baseball players. The guys he hung out with all the way through HS were the kids he was friends with since pre-K. In other words, he had a respite from baseball when he wasn't practicing or playing. I never discouraged that. Some of the kids are really good kids, some a little questionable, but they were his friends and I didn't discourage him. I did talk to him about making good decisions and the consequences of making bad decisions, but I didn't try to make him live his life 24/7 about baseball only. When he wasn't on the field, he was a normal kid with friends that were athletes, but not baseball players.
I think the fact that he still wants to play, even though his official baseball days are over, says something about how we dealt with things. He never got burned out, never got tired of playing, never lost his love of the game. As you go through this journey, remember that your son is your son first - a baseball player second. It is much more important to maintain your relationship with your son than to push the baseball too hard and strain that relationship. My son's profile picture on his twitter account has always been a picture of him pitching. When his playing days ended, he changed it to a picture of me, my wife and him in his uniform on senior day. I'm glad he still likes us enough to use that picture.
Maybe my favorite post on this board. Good stuff. |
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PG Pitch Counts
