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Hurricane
351 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2016 : 15:42:30
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Watching USA Baseball HS Invitational and noticed after a game both teams got together and prayed? Thoughts?  |
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HeyBlue
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 16:58:15
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| Good job! |
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patent pending
66 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 17:56:47
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| LOVE IT !! |
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SuperStar
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 18:38:33
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| Awesome!!! |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 20:10:52
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| The coach of a team we played this weekend gathered all the boys up on the mound when they finished shaking hands after the game and said a prayer. First time I had seen it but was pleased. |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 08:13:30
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| if they're 2 faith-based teams, I see no problem with it. But how would you feel if the 2 teams were led in a Muslim prayer, or Wiccan prayer, and your child felt pressured to participate (because the rest of the team was) but felt very uncomfortable at the same time? Sorry, I know I'm probably going to be the only one who feels this way, but leave the prayer off the diamond. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 08:17:19
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| I saw a team do this a few years ago, they were from a Christian Academy. The pitcher on my son's team threw a no hitter and still the team was smiling and respectful and asked if anyone from our team wanted to pray with them. It was nice and a few people on my son's team did join. I think that is the key, ASK, and maybe they will. |
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 08:51:49
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| I'm sure my viewpoint will go down like a lead balloon on this forum but here goes. Unless all parents and boys are told ahead of time that a prayer will be said I think it's very presumptuous to assume every kid is being raised as a Christian (I'm pretty certain this was a Christian prayer). It is statistically probable that certain kids (out of maybe 26?) could be Hindu, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist or raised in a secular home with no supernatural belief system. If it was not spontaneous and kids were invited to join in based on their belief system then I think that's fine although this presents the awkward situation of certain kids being "outed" as non-Christian. One of the greatest things about the USA (apart from giving us baseball) is the separation of Church and State. In fact it makes this country unique. Freedom of religion, freedom from religion and perhaps the freedom to enjoy a wonderful game without the need for a religious ritual. |
Edited by - Bergkamp10 on 03/25/2016 09:19:38 |
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Bravemom
204 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 09:07:48
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 wish I saw more of that! |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 09:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
One of the greatest things about the USA (apart from giving us baseball) is the separation of Church and State. In fact it makes this country unique. Freedom of religion, freedom from religion and perhaps the freedom to enjoy a wonderful game without the need for a religious ritual.
The baseball field is not the State. I'm not a real religious guy, but I think that people should have the freedom to practice their religion AND people should have the freedom to not practice a religion. The people who wanted to participate in the after game prayer should be able to do so - the people who do not want to participate should not be expected to. There is freedom on both sides. For one group to prevent another group from saying a prayer in the name of "freedom of religion" is to violate the other group's "freedom of religion". Preventing people from feeling uncomfortable is not what freedom of religion is all about. There will ALWAYS be things in life that are uncomfortable to someone. Those people need to deal with those feelings and NOT try to stop others from doing what they believe so that they feel comfortable. This is where political correctness comes from and it really needs to stop...
I know I'm preaching a little. But, really, the baseball field is not the State. Separation of church and state was put in place so that the country would not be run by a particular religious group. It was not put in the constitution to prevent any public displays of one's religious beliefs.
Like I said, I'm not a real religious guy, but people should be able to do what they want to do - and if you don't want to do it, just don't... |
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BamaDad
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 10:17:57
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| Like I said above, my son's team was OFFERED the opportunity to join the other team in a postgame prayer. We had just won the game and needed to prepare for our next one. However, our coaches and players paused for a brief moment and participated. Obviously, there are all faiths recognized on our team. There may probably be some kids on the team without any religious belief as well. In spite of this, no parent said anything about our boys pausing for the prayer. They were all 'thankful' that both teams' players came out of the game unscathed. They are not trying to CONVERT anyone to a particular religion just thankful everyone was OK. |
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HeyBlue
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 11:19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
I'm sure my viewpoint will go down like a lead balloon on this forum but here goes. Unless all parents and boys are told ahead of time that a prayer will be said I think it's very presumptuous to assume every kid is being raised as a Christian (I'm pretty certain this was a Christian prayer). It is statistically probable that certain kids (out of maybe 26?) could be Hindu, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist or raised in a secular home with no supernatural belief system. If it was not spontaneous and kids were invited to join in based on their belief system then I think that's fine although this presents the awkward situation of certain kids being "outed" as non-Christian. One of the greatest things about the USA (apart from giving us baseball) is the separation of Church and State. In fact it makes this country unique. Freedom of religion, freedom from religion and perhaps the freedom to enjoy a wonderful game without the need for a religious ritual.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Separation of church and state is mentioned exactly zero times in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or any other amendment. There is no right of freedom from religion. |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 11:35:07
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quote:
Like I said, I'm not a real religious guy, but people should be able to do what they want to do - and if you don't want to do it, just don't...
Until the kid who doesn't participate starts getting ostracized, bullied and/or looked at and treated differently by those who did. I'm not saying that anyone can or should be prohibited from exercising their religious freedom on the ball field, just be mindful of the position it'll inevitably put some of the kids in. *I*, for one, would never want to see a child put in that position. If you've never experienced such religious bullying and ostracizing, I can understand why you don't get it, but believe me, it's not pleasant. |
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 13:19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by HeyBlue
quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
I'm sure my viewpoint will go down like a lead balloon on this forum but here goes. Unless all parents and boys are told ahead of time that a prayer will be said I think it's very presumptuous to assume every kid is being raised as a Christian (I'm pretty certain this was a Christian prayer). It is statistically probable that certain kids (out of maybe 26?) could be Hindu, Mormon, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist or raised in a secular home with no supernatural belief system. If it was not spontaneous and kids were invited to join in based on their belief system then I think that's fine although this presents the awkward situation of certain kids being "outed" as non-Christian. One of the greatest things about the USA (apart from giving us baseball) is the separation of Church and State. In fact it makes this country unique. Freedom of religion, freedom from religion and perhaps the freedom to enjoy a wonderful game without the need for a religious ritual.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Separation of church and state is mentioned exactly zero times in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or any other amendment. There is no right of freedom from religion.
Spectacularly not true. It's the establishment clause.
The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
This covers both freedom of and freedom from religion which is precisely what the founding fathers wanted (and they were a mish mash of theists, deists, atheists and agnostics). |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 13:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
quote:
Like I said, I'm not a real religious guy, but people should be able to do what they want to do - and if you don't want to do it, just don't...
Until the kid who doesn't participate starts getting ostracized, bullied and/or looked at and treated differently by those who did. I'm not saying that anyone can or should be prohibited from exercising their religious freedom on the ball field, just be mindful of the position it'll inevitably put some of the kids in. *I*, for one, would never want to see a child put in that position. If you've never experienced such religious bullying and ostracizing, I can understand why you don't get it, but believe me, it's not pleasant.
*I* for one wouldn't have my kid on a team with kids who would treat someone badly for being themselves. We don't live in a cloister, how many different languages and customs do we ALL see on a daily basis?
Inviting someone for a prayer of thanks after a game doesn't mean you have to convert religions. |
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 13:43:55
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Good point TaxiMom. I'm sure coaches who lead their teams in prayer mean well and if all the kids (or should we say parents) are OK with it then, constitutionally, they have every right. But if you believe in another version of God, or no Gods at all, what are you supposed to do as a parent? Stand your ground or go along with it for the sake of your kid? Full disclosure here. I'm an atheist and my kid goes to Church and takes part in team prayer and I'm fine with that. All I want for him as he grows older is to have an enquiring and skeptical mind, understand the scientific method, demand evidence for extraordinary claims and eventually make his own decisions about how the universe works. At the age of 12 he's simply not equipped to do that. He just wants to fit in and be accepted.
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
quote:
Like I said, I'm not a real religious guy, but people should be able to do what they want to do - and if you don't want to do it, just don't...
Until the kid who doesn't participate starts getting ostracized, bullied and/or looked at and treated differently by those who did. I'm not saying that anyone can or should be prohibited from exercising their religious freedom on the ball field, just be mindful of the position it'll inevitably put some of the kids in. *I*, for one, would never want to see a child put in that position. If you've never experienced such religious bullying and ostracizing, I can understand why you don't get it, but believe me, it's not pleasant.
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tbaillie2
120 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 14:22:54
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My team says a prayer before each game, and often after (like described here as well).
I'm good with it, as it is earnest and is done for the right reasons. That said, I'm very aware that it has no bearing on anything and the first time a child is not comfortable I'll be sure to see that they know that is OK.
Freedom goes both ways...and just do the right thing and let others do the same.
It's really not that difficult. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 14:28:40
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what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 15:13:48
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quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
My team says a prayer before each game, and often after (like described here as well).
I'm good with it, as it is earnest and is done for the right reasons. That said, I'm very aware that it has no bearing on anything and the first time a child is not comfortable I'll be sure to see that they know that is OK.
Freedom goes both ways...and just do the right thing and let others do the same.
It's really not that difficult.
So why does the prayer have to be communal and public? Why not just say a prayer in private in the same way as "not praying" is a personal thing for non believers. If a God exists why is it necessary to be so public about communicating with Him (or Her).
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 15:20:09
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quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
Exactly. Take cover as heads explode. |
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Bergkamp10
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 15:39:49
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So why does the prayer have to be communal and public? Why not just say a prayer in private in the same way as "not praying" is a personal thing for non believers. If a God exists why is it necessary to be so public about communicating with Him (or Her).
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
My team says a prayer before each game, and often after (like described here as well).
I'm good with it, as it is earnest and is done for the right reasons. That said, I'm very aware that it has no bearing on anything and the first time a child is not comfortable I'll be sure to see that they know that is OK.
Freedom goes both ways...and just do the right thing and let others do the same.
It's really not that difficult.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 15:44:33
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| When my son was around 10, we played in a game where the announcer said a prayer while both teams were lined up in the base paths. Unfortunately, I knew there was at least one boy on our team that was not Christian. He still stood there while they said "In Jesus' name, Amen". Now, I don't think he really had a problem with it. But it did open my eyes. That was six years ago and I still remember feeling just a little uncomfortable. |
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 16:34:33
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We actually *were* in that position when my son played 9U. We have a completely non-religious household, so when an opposing team invited our team to the mound for prayer after the game, he didn't know what to do. He sort of hung back on the periphery of it all. We had a very big discussion about it afterward -- it made him feel very uncomfortable and he thought it was weird. I can't remember what he decided he would be comfortable doing in the future -- I think he said he just wouldn't go out there -- but as he gets older and more peer pressure kicks in, I wonder if he'll be comfortable enough in his own skin to do that.
I just don't get why people don't leave the prayer private, knowing that offering up a public, group prayer is going to make kids uncomfortable? Religion and your connection/relationship with God was always a private matter when/where I grew up (in the North).........obviously it's not that way down here.......
quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
Good point TaxiMom. I'm sure coaches who lead their teams in prayer mean well and if all the kids (or should we say parents) are OK with it then, constitutionally, they have every right. But if you believe in another version of God, or no Gods at all, what are you supposed to do as a parent? Stand your ground or go along with it for the sake of your kid? Full disclosure here. I'm an atheist and my kid goes to Church and takes part in team prayer and I'm fine with that. All I want for him as he grows older is to have an enquiring and skeptical mind, understand the scientific method, demand evidence for extraordinary claims and eventually make his own decisions about how the universe works. At the age of 12 he's simply not equipped to do that. He just wants to fit in and be accepted.
quote:
Originally posted by TaxiMom
quote:
Like I said, I'm not a real religious guy, but people should be able to do what they want to do - and if you don't want to do it, just don't...
Until the kid who doesn't participate starts getting ostracized, bullied and/or looked at and treated differently by those who did. I'm not saying that anyone can or should be prohibited from exercising their religious freedom on the ball field, just be mindful of the position it'll inevitably put some of the kids in. *I*, for one, would never want to see a child put in that position. If you've never experienced such religious bullying and ostracizing, I can understand why you don't get it, but believe me, it's not pleasant.
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TaxiMom
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 16:45:08
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Nor does a teacher showing her students yoga and using the word "namaste" mean your child is converting religions, but you wouldn't know it if you talked to parents at a particular elementary school in Kennesaw.
Again, it's not a matter of whether an after game prayer is an attempt at conversion or not, it's the pressure of non-believers of that religion to participate in a religious prayer.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Inviting someone for a prayer of thanks after a game doesn't mean you have to convert religions.
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 17:24:24
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| I do not have a particular issue with a team saying a prayer as long as we are talking about the travel team world and not the public HS teams. My son considers himself an atheist and I am not Christian, but I was raised and have raised my son to be respectful of other's beliefs. He understands that he should simply be still and quiet and allow those that chose to pray to do so. If it makes my son's teammates feel good to praise Jesus before or after a game, it is not his place to disrupt that, but he is not obligated to join in. Unless the team is of a religious nature, I would prefer there not be coach led prayer unless it was made clear before joining the team that it would be done so as a family we can decide if that is the right fit. |
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Kory
50 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 17:40:13
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Don't want your son to participate? Have a talk with the coach privately. Or instruct the player to say his own prayer to himself. Don't come on a message board and complain publicly and start to debate whether or not Jefferson's letter to the baptists was in the Bill of Rights or not. Seems to be the same people complaining about coaches' rules, playing time, etc though so I imagine that the coaches involved must love having you all on the team.
There is nothing wrong with a communal prayer after the game. A reminder that the world does not revolve around little Johnny might just be necessary. "Travel" players are often surrounded by parents, private coaches, trainers, etc... all telling him that he is the best thing on the planet, the coach is nuts, that kid playing in front of him sucks, etc... A little humility might go a long way. |
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Thoughts on Praying together as 2 teams after game
